The great Belichick

[kskboys]

Belichick shut down the "Greatest Show on Turf" in one super bowl. Rams had multiple all-pro, HOFers. Can anyone name Patriots defenders from that team?

Then he shuts down McVay's prolific Ram's squad in another super bowl, with largely a cast of unknowns.

He does it year after year. Criticizing Belichick's defensive wizardry ...or minimizing coaching impact is simply strange. If you want to criticize on the offensive side...different story.

Yes, I can, it was an all pro lineup on D.


Asante Samuel, Ted Washington, Roosevelt Colvin, Roman Phifer, Ty Law, Rodney Harrison, Mike Vrabel, Teddy Bruschi, Ty Warren, Seymour, Lawyer Milloy.

That D was frickin' stacked to the max. At some point, someone started this rumor that it was a no name D, and that was one of the most ludicrous things I'd ever heard. It was a cast of Who's Who on D.

 

[T-RO]

That D was frickin' stacked to the max. At some point, someone started this rumor that it was a no name D, and that was one of the most ludicrous things I'd ever heard. It was a cast of Who's Who on D.

Fair enough, I was thinking more of the 18-19 edition. Trey Flowers, Lawrence Guy, Van Noy, Malcolm Brown, Elandon Roberts...anything but stacked and it was the #1 defense on the year and dominated Rams in Super Bowl.

Belichik once had to push a receiver to play DB--and made it work.

 

[Reid1boys]

But there are a lot of people that are not good at their profession. It is possible that Jerry could hire a GM that does much worse. You think the Bears have a better GM? Coaches too.

That’s why I mentioned the jets, lions, dolphins, jags, Vikings, and on and on and on. I’d say we are pretty talented on offense..... if only we had a real gem we might have the talent of the bears...... I can dream, right?

 

[LACowboysFan1]

This is about Belichick, not Brady. Some of you guys have an unhealthy dislike for Belichick. Probably need to seek some help. Brady is no different than any other elite QB, the only variable is Belichick. Belichick + elite QB equals 9 SB appearances. This is not all Tom Brady. Brady isn't 9 times better than Aaron Rodgers. He probably could have done the same with any of the other elite QBs. He just happened to have Brady.

This isn't the least bit complicated. Great coach meets elite QB and success is had.

Though the question remains - Brady is elite because of why? He was a sixth round pick, surely if he had tons of natural talent, football intelligence, etc. SOME team would have recognized that and drafted him earlier. It even extends to college, Brady battled Drew Henson for the starting job for two years, he was never the clearly better quarterback. He wasn't "elite" when he got to New England.
He had to become the "elite" quarterback, surely he didn't do that all on his own. It wasn'tso much "Great coach meets elite QB", it was more "Great coach meets quarterback with elite potential".

Like I said, let's see what Belichick can do with Jones, who knows, might go on another long run of SB wins. Probably won't, like the Dolphins' undefeated season, it takes a near perfect combination of things to do that, or to win 6 SBs. But if the same type of success doesn't happen it won't necessarily mean Belichick isn't a great coach, and besides he's not as young as he was when he drafted Brady, he is very unlikely to coach another 20 years, just won't have time to win like he did with Brady...

 

[terra]

History has shown that even the greatest coaches eventually wear out or stop pushing themselves or something. Halas, Brown, Landry, Shula all in the end sort of faded away. Lombardi did not coach long enough for that to happen.
Maybe BB's time has come but I would give it a couple more years; the man has earned it.

 

[kskboys]

Fair enough, I was thinking more of the 18-19 edition. Trey Flowers, Lawrence Guy, Van Noy, Malcolm Brown, Elandon Roberts...anything but stacked and it was the #1 defense on the year and dominated Rams in Super Bowl.

Belichik once had to push a receiver to play DB--and made it work.

Well said.

Belly has the ability to make C players into B players. And what he does is always get some big uglies up front so other teams cannot gash him up the middle repeated. Hades, he doesn't even play them all the time, some games hardly at all, but they are there when he needs them. And he gets them on bargain bucks. In 18 it was Malcolm Brown and Danny Shelton, two guys who were a bit busty. Played like their hair was on fire w/ Bill, got paid by someone else, then faded back into obscurity.

 

[Reid1boys]

History has shown that even the greatest coaches eventually wear out or stop pushing themselves or something. Halas, Brown, Landry, Shula all in the end sort of faded away. Lombardi did not coach long enough for that to happen.
Maybe BB's time has come but I would give it a couple more years; the man has earned it.

what a coincidence... his time arrived right when Brady left... exactly as i said was gonna happen. Was saying this for at least 5 years. and what do you know.... just like clockwork.

 

[Reid1boys]

Well said.

Belly has the ability to make C players into B players. And what he does is always get some big uglies up front so other teams cannot gash him up the middle repeated. Hades, he doesn't even play them all the time, some games hardly at all, but they are there when he needs them. And he gets them on bargain bucks. In 18 it was Malcolm Brown and Danny Shelton, two guys who were a bit busty. Played like their hair was on fire w/ Bill, got paid by someone else, then faded back into obscurity.

all of those moves work and look great when you have a great QB.

He no longer has the great QB, and all those bargain moves that used to work all of the sudden look like garbage. No playoffs last year, no playoffs this year.... you know, the stuff that is gonna get 5-6 coaches fired this year.

 

[Reid1boys]

Though the question remains - Brady is elite because of why? He was a sixth round pick, surely if he had tons of natural talent, football intelligence, etc. SOME team would have recognized that and drafted him earlier. It even extends to college, Brady battled Drew Henson for the starting job for two years, he was never the clearly better quarterback. He wasn't "elite" when he got to New England.
He had to become the "elite" quarterback, surely he didn't do that all on his own. It wasn'tso much "Great coach meets elite QB", it was more "Great coach meets quarterback with elite potential".

Like I said, let's see what Belichick can do with Jones, who knows, might go on another long run of SB wins. Probably won't, like the Dolphins' undefeated season, it takes a near perfect combination of things to do that, or to win 6 SBs. But if the same type of success doesn't happen it won't necessarily mean Belichick isn't a great coach, and besides he's not as young as he was when he drafted Brady, he is very unlikely to coach another 20 years, just won't have time to win like he did with Brady...

so do you think players like Kurt Warner, who was bagging groceries and then was a starting QB ended up in the HOF and was a seriously talented QB ended up like that because some great coach showed him the way?
You think Billy was spending hours in qb film sessions and qb mechanics with Brady in his first few seasons that took him to the top?
You think Herbert has quickly become a stud while Tua looks like Garbage because Herbert has the great coaches in Charger Land and Tua has garbage helping him in Miami?

ugh,...... this stuff is nuts. If coaches could make QBs great, they could repeat the process over and over again.... but they dont. They typically hit the jackpot once in their career, and that is when they are great coaches. Are their a few outliers? of course..... so dont try to use that outlier and say see.... its all about the right cheme, the right prepaeration and coaching that allowed player X to become great.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

so do you think players like Kurt Warner, who was bagging groceries and then was a starting QB ended up in the HOF and was a seriously talented QB ended up like that because some great coach showed him the way?
You think Billy was spending hours in qb film sessions and qb mechanics with Brady in his first few seasons that took him to the top?
You think Herbert has quickly become a stud while Tua looks like Garbage because Herbert has the great coaches in Charger Land and Tua has garbage helping him in Miami?

ugh,...... this stuff is nuts. If coaches could make QBs great, they could repeat the process over and over again.... but they dont. They typically hit the jackpot once in their career, and that is when they are great coaches. Are their a few outliers? of course..... so dont try to use that outlier and say see.... its all about the right cheme, the right prepaeration and coaching that allowed player X to become great.

"If coaches could make QBs great, they could repeat the process over and over again."
Meredith, Staubach and even Danny White were all Landry quarterbacks. Played in NFL championships with Meredith, won SBs with Roger and played in NFC championship games with Danny White.
Shula won SBs with Griese and returned to the SB with Marino.
Parcells won SBs with Simms and returned to the SB with Bledsoe, and to the AFC championship game with Sanchez.
Vermiel went to the SB with Jaworski and won a SB with Warner.

So those all "repeated the process"

Brady also had I'm sure a quarterbacks coach, an offensive coordinator and others to help him, I didn't say it was all Belichick, there's lots more to being ultra successful, if you took my post to mean I was saying Belichick was solely responsible for Brady's success you completely misread it...

 

[Pape]

Well said.

Belly has the ability to make C players into B players. And what he does is always get some big uglies up front so other teams cannot gash him up the middle repeated. Hades, he doesn't even play them all the time, some games hardly at all, but they are there when he needs them. And he gets them on bargain bucks. In 18 it was Malcolm Brown and Danny Shelton, two guys who were a bit busty. Played like their hair was on fire w/ Bill, got paid by someone else, then faded back into obscurity.

Fwiw, we drafted Malcom Brown ... 2015 first round...

Shelton was a good fa pick up though...

I tell ya there is going to be a **** storm coming to New England when the new wickersham book hits the shelves... Bits and pieces have leaked already... It's going to get ugly... Will be interesting to see how BB manages to avoid the upcoming distractions and keep the team focused...

Got my bucket ready for some heavy bailing...

 

[Reid1boys]

"If coaches could make QBs great, they could repeat the process over and over again."
Meredith, Staubach and even Danny White were all Landry quarterbacks. Played in NFL championships with Meredith, won SBs with Roger and played in NFC championship games with Danny White.
Shula won SBs with Griese and returned to the SB with Marino.
Parcells won SBs with Simms and returned to the SB with Bledsoe, and to the AFC championship game with Sanchez.
Vermiel went to the SB with Jaworski and won a SB with Warner.

So those all "repeated the process"

Brady also had I'm sure a quarterbacks coach, an offensive coordinator and others to help him, I didn't say it was all Belichick, there's lots more to being ultra successful, if you took my post to mean I was saying Belichick was solely responsible for Brady's success you completely misread it...

Using non cap teams from 30 plus years ago does not work in todays salary cap NFL. Shula....bahahahah... Marino came right out of College and had one of the greatest seasons in the history of the league. Damn, that Shula had 3 months to create a HOF QB..... cmon
And as I said, there are always outliers. And if you also coach 20 plus seasons, I would hop eyou hit on 2 QBs..... but, unfortunately that isnt always the case. How long have the Dolphins been looking for that QB? coincidentally about the same amount of time they have sucked.

 

[terra]

Using non cap teams from 30 plus years ago does not work in todays salary cap NFL. Shula....bahahahah... Marino came right out of College and had one of the greatest seasons in the history of the league. Damn, that Shula had 3 months to create a HOF QB..... cmon
And as I said, there are always outliers. And if you also coach 20 plus seasons, I would hop eyou hit on 2 QBs..... but, unfortunately that isnt always the case. How long have the Dolphins been looking for that QB? coincidentally about the same amount of time they have sucked.

yeah look how long the Bills have tried to find a replacement for Kelly. That was another reason the Pats were so successful; for 20 years the AFC East pretty much stank.

 

[Reid1boys]

yeah look how long the Bills have tried to find a replacement for Kelly. That was another reason the Pats were so successful; for 20 years the AFC East pretty much stank.

20 years of absolute garbage with about 4 years of decent jets teams mixed in.

 

[Pape]

20 years of absolute garbage with about 4 years of decent jets teams mixed in.

the Patriots didn't create the division... cant blame them because the other teams were stuck in perpetual rebuilding cycle...

 

[kskboys]

Fwiw, we drafted Malcom Brown ... 2015 first round...

Shelton was a good fa pick up though...

I tell ya there is going to be a **** storm coming to New England when the new wickersham book hits the shelves... Bits and pieces have leaked already... It's going to get ugly... Will be interesting to see how BB manages to avoid the upcoming distractions and keep the team focused...

Got my bucket ready for some heavy bailing...

Ooopsy!!!

 

[nightrain]

Belichick would be my guy. Throw in Brady, too.

 

[atlantacowboy]

As HOF coach Jimmy Johnson learned in Miami, you can build a great defense, but without a QB, winning in the NFL is tough. Bill had a mediocre QB last year and a rookie this year. He had a good thing with Brady just as Jimmy had a good thing with Aikman.......... Bashing the guy now is absurd. You don't luck into 7 Super Bowls, and the Patriots defense had as much to do with those titles as Brady. In fact, the defense bailed Brady out several times in the big games over the years.

 

[Reid1boys]

As HOF coach Jimmy Johnson learned in Miami, you can build a great defense, but without a QB, winning in the NFL is tough. Bill had a mediocre QB last year and a rookie this year. He had a good thing with Brady just as Jimmy had a good thing with Aikman.......... Bashing the guy now is absurd. You don't luck into 7 Super Bowls, and the Patriots defense had as much to do with those titles as Brady. In fact, the defense bailed Brady out several times in the big games over the years.

im doing nothing more than pointing out what has happened.... EXACTLY as I said it would happen.

 

[JJHLH1]

Belichick is 62-75 in his career without Brady.

Only 1 playoff win in over 8 seasons without Brady.

Brady had game winning drives in the 4th quarter or overtime in all 6 of Bill’s Super Bowl wins.

The GOAT made him look good for 20 seasons.

Bill wanted to replace Brady with Jimmy G 4 years ago. Genius!