The Kellen Moore Curl offense

[kramskoi]

I have been saying for a while now that KM's offense or Dak refuses to attack the outside of the field and teams know it.

We had to attack them outside the numbers, we had single coverage on the outside vs them and they never adjusted to take advantage of it.

In that single high safety look, the hinge routes were open, as the CBs were playing off. On the play he tried to hit down the right hash mark (against single high MOC) Hilton was open front side along the sideline. All the choice/option routes just add more load and processing time to what a quarterback must deal with. If Moore isn't hired then this same crap comes back for 2023...and even adding a "legit #2" is not going to solve it. It's fundamentally rotten right now.

 

[buybuydandavis]

By the time he got his legs moving EVERYONE deep in the secondary would be up to stop him for a yard gain

Zeke isn't that slow if you hit him in stride. Dak tends to throw swing passes behind the near shoulder, making the back slow and twist back for the ball, killing his momentum.

Before Dak's play took a nose dive this season, I thought his short range accuracy to RBs was the easily correctable failing he would fix next, the elimination of which would elevate his game.

Instead, just a weird regression in his play.

 

[CowboyoWales]

As a *rookie* Dak was hitting shorter passes but hitting receivers on the move.

Static WRs play *against* Dak's strengths and weaknesses. His biggest weakness is being slow to pull the trigger, while those comeback routes have a tiny window before the defender closes.

So if his biggest weakness is pulling the trigger the curl still gives him the greatest chance of completion as the WR's moving in his general direction rather than on a lateral pattern.

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

I don't see how anyone can say those curls are open when they are literally playing a defense that takes those curls away. It's easy to pin it all on Dak but this team has ran the same unimaginative offense since Romo and people still want to think all we have to do is go get a QB. No the OC sucks too. You guys want to harp that Dak sucks and I agree but so does the OC because he doesn't seem to know Dak sucks and runs a offense that makes Dak the focal point.

I have always said Dak has average arm talent. Perhaps he does not throw outside the numbers because of his arm talent? Did you see the pick 6 against Washington? Did you see the first pick he threw against the 49ers?

Is Daks arm talent hoding Moore back...or is Moore holding Dak back?

Now plenty of guys have won football games that did not have elite arm talent...but the front office has to pair Dak with someone who does not run an offense that requires elite arm talent. Purdy ran an offense that does not require elite arm talent.

 

[Zman5]

As I mentioned before, I've been complaining about this play for like 12 years. Here is Dak's play where it almost got intercepted and Romo's play where he did get intercepted on the same play vs GB in 2013. This was that infamous "Matt Flynn" game where we had a huge lead only to lose due to turnovers.

Look at where Shultz is and the defender guarding him. Witt is in the same spot in the middle. This play has been around and sucking for a long time.

Romo vs GB in 2013 where he was intercepted trying for a game winning drive.

 

[beware_d-ware]

That's a max-protect call. Schultz is in the backfield blocking, Zeke looks to block before releasing, only 3 receivers are even in patterns. Having them all run curls is a little blah, but the idea is to get the WRs to the sticks ASAP and throw quickly.

The play would've worked too, but pass pro broke down right below the throw. The 49ers got heat against 7 blockers while rushing 4 dudes... tough to run any play call in that situation.

 

[Zman5]

That's a max-protect call. Schultz is in the backfield blocking, Zeke looks to block before releasing, only 3 receivers are even in patterns. Having them all run curls is a little blah, but the idea is to get the WRs to the sticks ASAP and throw quickly.

The play would've worked too, but pass pro broke down right below the throw. The 49ers got heat against 7 blockers while rushing 4 dudes... tough to run any play call in that situation.

Shultz is the 2nd receiver from the top in the second pic. The SF player #52 is covering him.

 

[SexyDexy52]

Horrible play but zeke was wide open with 10+ yards of separation. THATS the time you throw the checkdown. He would have at least made it close to the first down or god forbid he sums up 1 miss tackle

50% KM for horrible curl/ hook route JG call
50% Dak for missing a wide open zeke on the one time a check down pass would have worked

I would just like to point out that if you watch the 2nd and 2 play that was intercepted, Zeke was also running a swing route on that play as well and was wide open. The OLB defending him even moved backwards, (and Zeke even peeks into the backfield to see if the ball is coming his way because he knows he is open). He also had a WR in front of him that could block the CB leaving Zeke with a one on one to get to the goal line. Dak's eyes never came off of CD. Instead of 7 points, SF got the ball.....

 

[zenmastersauce]

Thing is, two of those curls are open. Dak just has zero ability to anticipate and their is no timing coordination between his drops, the WR breaks, and his release.

It’s not just Dak. It’s not just Moore. It’s not just the OL. It’s not just (insert name or positions group). It’s the entire design, timing, scheme, and execution. That’s why sometimes it runs like a well oiled machine. They’re all on the same page every once in a while. Then, sometimes, they entire thing breaks down because no one is on the same page.

To me, that all screams head coaching. The head coach is the one who has to make sure everyone is on the same page and understands the expectations. When there are constant hiccups and brain farts and blunders and poor execution, that’s the head coach.

When everyone is not on the same page, coaching. Simple. Dak needs to bone up his issues for sure and he deserves the criticism for his misses and failures at those moments but I can't get past what Kurt said when he looked at KMs plays and wondered what they were even doing. Lack of bailout and confusing emphasis on opening things up the right way.

 

[Clove]

To me, when I used to play, I loved it when the QB would make the throw right before I made my break, not after. Pretty much any Corner can be burned if you make the pass before the break, Dak never does this. However, play design is very VERY important. The sloppiness of the offense is somewhat shocking coming from a MM offense, unless Moore is designing everything and teaching these guys the plays. I just don't like it at all, and Dak isn't a top tier QB to be making up for it with arm/accuracy talent. So we need a coordinator who is "attention to detail" oriented, and has the creativeness to scheme guys wide open like Philly's offense does.

 

[Beast_from_East]

I dont know if Kellen Moore is the problem or if Dak is the problem, but what I do know is that the two of them together aint working.

So, we have to break them up. I cant get rid of Dak due to his contract, so that leaves wonder boy to clean out his office.

I roll with Dak and a new OC next year and hope this year was a fluke. If Dak still sucks with a new OC, well I at least have my answer on if I need to get a new QB or not.

 

[PAPPYDOG]

This isn't a Dak excuse thread. Don't come in here trying to defend Kellen Moore by just blaming Dak. This offense sucks and is a problem.





Outside the numbers was open ALL game. Kellen didn't ADJUST at all.

It's not the trainer but the Horse.
Patience as when a new OC comes in Dakko will still sucko!!!!

 

[GRCowboy]

Ceedee was wide open for that conversion

 

[phildadon86]

As I mentioned before, I've been complaining about this play for like 12 years. Here is Dak's play where it almost got intercepted and Romo's play where he did get intercepted on the same play vs GB in 2013. This was that infamous "Matt Flynn" game where we had a huge lead only to lose due to turnovers.

Look at where Shultz is and the defender guarding him. Witt is in the same spot in the middle. This play has been around and sucking for a long time.

Romo vs GB in 2013 where he was intercepted trying for a game winning drive.

@erod Remember this game? When Romo lost to the GB Packers starting Flynn?

I thought you told me Romo never lost to lesser teams?

Its all blasphemy though right?

 

[phildadon86]

I dont know if Kellen Moore is the problem or if Dak is the problem, but what I do know is that the two of them together aint working.

So, we have to break them up. I cant get rid of Dak due to his contract, so that leaves wonder boy to clean out his office.

I roll with Dak and a new OC next year and hope this year was a fluke. If Dak still sucks with a new OC, well I at least have my answer on if I need to get a new QB or not.

Now is the time to do it. Find out what a new voice and new SCHEME can get out of Dak. If its the same crap. You know to eat his salary in 2024 and move on. Its literally the only course of action right now. Or. The Cowboy way. Trot out the same stuff next season and pray.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Yeah but what part of the read and design of the play? Is his first read Ceedee? Shultz? We don't know. Zeke could of been the last read on that play

I would hope Zeke isn't the 1st read on that play or we have bigger issues than I thought.

 

[erod]

@erod Remember this game? When Romo lost to the GB Packers starting Flynn?

I thought you told me Romo never lost to lesser teams?

Its all blasphemy though right?

I remember that season, which was statistically the worst in Cowboys history to that point. That year was the year Romo outplayed Peyton Manning, only to lose 51-48.

Three times that year, Dallas scored more than 30 points and lost. That Green Bay game was one of them.

Flynn threw for 4 touchdowns and Eddie Lacy ran for 140 yards, and Dallas still only lost by one point. A Dak team would have gotten destroyed that night.

Dallas was giving up 400+ yards on defense on a routine basis.

 

[phildadon86]

I remember that season, which was statistically the worst in Cowboys history. That year was the year Romo outplayed Peyton Manning, only to lose 51-48.

Three times that year, Dallas scored more than 30 points and lost. That Green Bay game was one of them.

Flynn threw for 4 touchdowns and Eddie Lacy ran for 140 yards, and Dallas still only lost by one point.

Dallas was giving up 400+ yards on defense on a routine basis.

A Dak team would have gotten destroyed that night.

Not the point.

You said Romo never lost to bad teams......Here is proof. He did.

Also. This particular game. Romo threw 2 picks.

 

[erod]

Not the point.

You said Romo never lost to bad teams......Here is proof. He did.

Also. This particular game. Romo threw 2 picks.

Just take your L, dude.

To compare those two quarterbacks is painfully stupid.

 

[phildadon86]

Just take your L, dude.

To compare those two quarterbacks is painfully stupid.

Why?

Same playoff success. Isnt that what matters in these parts?

LOL. Its painfully stupid to glorify one QB for the same success the one you blast has.