The Outlier QB vs A 1st Round QB Working Out

[Blitzen]

I believe we should continue to build around Dak.
It's very simple to be successful in the playoffs you need to be able to run the ball and you need to be able to stop the run until we can do that it doesn't matter what quarterback we have how old he is where he was drafted we are not going to be successful.

It's the front office that has to make the commitment to build the team properly and stop taking shortcuts.
These shortcuts are good on the short run and beat up on bad teams and compile statistics but lead to disaster in the playoffs.

That said for us to build around Dak he has to be team friendly and give us the revenue to add the talent for him to be successful.

If it was so simple to succeed in the playoffs, the Cowboys would have gotten further in the past 28 years.

And let’s say they become so fantastic at running the ball and stopping the run. Why would the team need to continue building around the QB that has not proven worthy of building around for going on a decade?

 

[Jimbo123]

Not saying this in defense of Dak, but why does where he was drafted matter 9 years after the fact? He's outplayed his draft position so why did what scouts thought of him in 2016 matter now?

Tony Romo and Kurt Warner weren't even drafted; and Romo was one of the best QB's of his generation and Warner is a HOF and Super Bowl winner himself.

And it's easy to cherry pick the QB's drafted in the 1st round that got to Super Bowls and say "this is how you get there". But there are also your fair share of 1st round QB's like Josh Rosen, Mitch Trubisky, Josh Fields, Brady Quinn, Johnny Manziel, Paxton Lynch, Blake Bortles, Blaine Gabbert, JaMarcus Russell, Sam Bradford, Christian Ponder, Jameis Winston, Zack Wilson........

You forgot Trey Lance

 

[CT Dal Fan]

I would still take my chances than rely on late round QBs.

True but here's the problem.

Dak may or may not get this team where they need to be, but as long as he is the QB here they are winning too many games to have a chance at the top QB's. Unless they want to trade up into the top ten which costs future draft capital, thus making it even tougher to build a team around the new guy.

 

[ShortRound]

I don’t mind gambling on a Dak but we should have a plan to move on after year 4.

 

[CT Dal Fan]

You forgot Trey Lance

I left Lance out on purpose.

I am starting to get the sense that Dak might want out of here more than the Cowboys do. He knows the fan base is probably at least 50-50 on him. If things continue to go sour I am hoping (maybe against all odds) that Lance could be the solution.

Because minus Dak there is no other hope.

 

[Blackrain]

If it was so simple to succeed in the playoffs, the Cowboys would have gotten further in the past 28 years.

And let’s say they become so fantastic at running the ball and stopping the run. Why would the team need to continue building around the QB that has not proven worthy of building around for going on a decade?

I would think because Dak is a proven commodity that can get you 12 wins in a year and get you to the playoffs if we provide him with a little more help we might be able to win in the playoffs.

Not everyone is lucky enough to get the last pick in the draft to have the skill to be able to take them to a super bowl .

We've seen a lot of teams draft quarterbacks that couldn't take them to the playoffs if there are no guarantees.

 

[MikeT22]

True but here's the problem.

Dak may or may not get this team where they need to be, but as long as he is the QB here they are winning too many games to have a chance at the top QB's. Unless they want to trade up into the top ten which costs future draft capital, thus making it even tougher to build a team around the new guy.

Yeah I get it, we’re stuck.

 

[Qcard]

I say it all the time snd I’ll say it again now:

We have a section of fans here that, if they were Chiefs fans in 2017, would’ve been irate at them for trading up for Mahomes instead of getting Alex Smith more help.

They badly want to downplay the importance of the QB position because they want to take heat off their favorite player.

I get it. You’re a fan, but don’t try and act like you know what you’re talking about if that’s the route you wanna take.

We also had a segment of fans whom profess to being QB finders try to sell us Andy Dalton, Cooper Rush, Trey Lance and @MountaineerCowboy favorite Desmond Ridder!!!

Yep this post makes send to Dak Haters

 

[Qcard]

What’s easier to find?

A Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Herbert, Stroud, Love, Lawrence, or Lamar?

Or

Tom Brady

Brady is right now the ultimate outlier. The GOAT that everyone passed over multiple times.

Russell Wilson is currently the only active QB to win a Super Bowl and not be drafted in the 1st round.

We have Dak. The Cowboys would have to make NFL history at the point to win a Super Bowl with Dak.

Dak is a 4th rounder, over 30, entering his 9th season on the team that drafted him, all while taking up the majority of the cap. He would have to be the 1st QB in NFL history to win a Super Bowl with all that baggage attached. He would become the ultimate outlier. The outlier of all outliers.

So I ask. Why are some so horrified of drafting a QB high and moving on? The chances that we hit on that QB are astronomically higher than Dak ever leading the Cowboys to a Super Bowl victory. There’s 1st round QB hits almost every year, but there’s never been a QB win anything with Daks baggage.

Stupidity Galore....see below

Yep Dak Haters have that Eye Test!!!

https://cowboyszone.com/threads/105...ared-him-for-the-regular-season.513175/page-3

You know what Lance has in common with Rush, Dalton, and Ridder?

They’re not Dak.

We want Lance!

 

[Jarntt]

People love to show that they are controlled by their emotions and not logic all the time I see smh. What does your post change about that being an outlier regarding Purdy?

What emotions are you referring to. I bet you are making that up and don’t know what you are talking about.

The point was he was pretending Brady was the outlier and that you need a first round QB to win and literally the last guy taken in the draft almost just won a SB two days prior.

 

[Philmonroe]

What emotions are you referring to. I bet you are making that up and don’t know what you are talking about.

The point was he was pretending Brady was the outlier and that you need a first round QB to win and literally the last guy taken in the draft almost just won a SB two days prior.

If you’re not smart enough to know the obvious emotions it is nothing I can do for you. Wish you emotional types seek help instead of coming online with this behavior. Literally explains what I’m talking about in the post you quoted yet still you out here on the silly expletive. Beat it

 

[Jarntt]

If you’re not smart enough to know the obvious emotions it is nothing I can do for you. Wish you emotional types seek help instead of coming online with this behavior. Literally explains what I’m talking about in the post you quoted yet still you out here on the silly expletive. Beat it

So you are full of crap like I thought. Still waiting for you to say what emotions you are referring to or admit you made it up. I’m guessing you’ll do neither because you realize you were wrong or just flat out making it up. Typical message board crap

 

[Blitzen]

I would think because Dak is a proven commodity that can get you 12 wins in a year and get you to the playoffs if we provide him with a little more help we might be able to win in the playoffs.

Not everyone is lucky enough to get the last pick in the draft to have the skill to be able to take them to a super bowl .

We've seen a lot of teams draft quarterbacks that couldn't take them to the playoffs if there are no guarantees.

Is Dak proving he is good enough to reach the playoffs and not good enough to advance in the playoffs? He has had ample opportunities in a weak NFC to show his playoff capabilities.

Considering that the help needed is actually much greater than you anticipate (see 32 point beating before garbage time vs GB and the 3rd meltdown vs SF in a row this past season)-it is extremely unlikely this perfect storm happens in the next 4-5 seasons. Again-you are trying to extrapolate regular season results to the playoffs. It does not work that way. Regular season beatdowns against the lowest level competition does not show any type of correlation to performance versus playoff opponents. If multiple beatdowns had come against playoff opponents, then I could see why someone would predict better playoff performance. The Cowboys hit the lottery this last season (2nd seed), Dak pooped his pants (and the defense folded), and GB (the 7th seed) demolished the team at home.

I cannot see how any Cowboys fan gets done watching that game (and recalling other Dak poor playoff performances) and comes to the conclusion that Dak just needs a bit more help (because of some regular season performances).

 

[MikeT22]

What emotions are you referring to. I bet you are making that up and don’t know what you are talking about.

The point was he was pretending Brady was the outlier and that you need a first round QB to win and literally the last guy taken in the draft almost just won a SB two days prior.

So you think Brady and Purdy are the norm and not the exception?

 

[Jarntt]

So you think Brady and Purdy are the norm and not the exception?

No. That’s not what I said. you Took a massive leap from point A to point B to, I assume, prove a point for who knows what reason. There is only one Brady but there have been many QBs in the NFL who are/were capable of winning a SB who weren’t drafted in the 1st round And there have been many QBs drafted in the first round who weren’t capable. It’s a silly overgeneralization. It’s also dependent on having a QB your scouts love available when you are on the clock. So I’ll ask again, which QB that will be on the board when we pick at #24 is going to win us a SB

 

[Blitzen]

No. That’s not what I said. you Took a massive leap from point A to point B to, I assume, prove a point for who knows what reason. There is only one Brady but there have been many QBs in the NFL who are/were capable of winning a SB who weren’t drafted in the 1st round And there have been many QBs drafted in the first round who weren’t capable. It’s a silly overgeneralization. It’s also dependent on having a QB your scouts love available when you are on the clock. So I’ll ask again, which QB that will be on the board when we pick at #24 is going to win us a SB

I think the point of the thread is-we know it will not be with Dak-so who cares? Plus they could use future picks to move up like KC did a few years ago. Plus this is from fan perspective-everyone knows Jones is extending Dak.

 

[MetalMike]

Drafting a QB in the 1st round usually means you're looking for someone to take over immediately or very soon. 2nd or 3rd round usually someone to groom into an immediate backup role and 4th thru 7th, hit or miss. Sometimes you just get lucky. But, any QB has to have a skill set that fits with and be able to learn and adjust to whatever scheme the team runs. Then that QB must have a functioning running game with RB's that can also catch. Good - great receivers are a must. But, when you're taken in the 1st round by a 2-15 team chances are not all of those things are going to fall into place right from the start. Then, there's that team chemistry thing.

IMHO a really great QB comes out of the draft once every 4-5 years. One that can make a difference due to his athleticism, ability to escape the pressure and blitzes. One that can always seem to ignite a needed spark. Mahomes is definitely one of those. For his era Aikman was one of those. And they have/had a great supporting cast.

This year's draft has one of those QB's. Jayden Daniels out of LSU. He is the closest QB to a Mahomes as you can get. Back in the early Jerry/Jimmy years they constructed the Cowboys through shrewd trades and FA acquisitions. Those old enough to remember the Steve Walsh trade led to the Cowboys drafting Erik Williams. Not to mention the incredible Herschel Walker trade. This is what needs to be done now with the Cowboys. Make a deal of the century to get the Bears 1st overall pick and take Jayden Daniels. He's one of those QB's that's first to practice and the last to leave types. He's smart, accurate and can definitely run. And lest anyone forget he won the Heisman. I believe he'd fit with most any offensive scheme out there.

We could package some younger players that aren't make or break anyway, our 1st round pick this year and next. Throw in Pollard and Trey Lance or our newest prima donna, Cee Dee, who's let everyone know he just wants to be paid. The last cog is to let Dak know that they're going in a new direction and get it done by March 13 (not sure about the exact date) by getting him to agree to a trade or just outright release him. If I have read correctly that would save us a cap hit of about $34M. With Daniels we would have a dynamic QB and we could focus the rest of our draft on LB's and other needs (and a look at FA's). I think the players would immediately take to him for his work ethic and desire. It's time to move on instead of paying certain players over-bloated salaries just because. Fortune favors the bold.

 

[Jimbo123]

Drafting a QB in the 1st round usually means you're looking for someone to take over immediately or very soon. 2nd or 3rd round usually someone to groom into an immediate backup role and 4th thru 7th, hit or miss. Sometimes you just get lucky. But, any QB has to have a skill set that fits with and be able to learn and adjust to whatever scheme the team runs. Then that QB must have a functioning running game with RB's that can also catch. Good - great receivers are a must. But, when you're taken in the 1st round by a 2-15 team chances are not all of those things are going to fall into place right from the start. Then, there's that team chemistry thing.

IMHO a really great QB comes out of the draft once every 4-5 years. One that can make a difference due to his athleticism, ability to escape the pressure and blitzes. One that can always seem to ignite a needed spark. Mahomes is definitely one of those. For his era Aikman was one of those. And they have/had a great supporting cast.

This year's draft has one of those QB's. Jayden Daniels out of LSU. He is the closest QB to a Mahomes as you can get. Back in the early Jerry/Jimmy years they constructed the Cowboys through shrewd trades and FA acquisitions. Those old enough to remember the Steve Walsh trade led to the Cowboys drafting Erik Williams. Not to mention the incredible Herschel Walker trade. This is what needs to be done now with the Cowboys. Make a deal of the century to get the Bears 1st overall pick and take Jayden Daniels. He's one of those QB's that's first to practice and the last to leave types. He's smart, accurate and can definitely run. And lest anyone forget he won the Heisman. I believe he'd fit with most any offensive scheme out there.

We could package some younger players that aren't make or break anyway, our 1st round pick this year and next. Throw in Pollard and Trey Lance or our newest prima donna, Cee Dee, who's let everyone know he just wants to be paid. The last cog is to let Dak know that they're going in a new direction and get it done by March 13 (not sure about the exact date) by getting him to agree to a trade or just outright release him. If I have read correctly that would save us a cap hit of about $34M. With Daniels we would have a dynamic QB and we could focus the rest of our draft on LB's and other needs (and a look at FA's). I think the players would immediately take to him for his work ethic and desire. It's time to move on instead of paying certain players over-bloated salaries just because. Fortune favors the bold.

Put that Xbox controller down, it's bedtime.

 

[Blackrain]

Is Dak proving he is good enough to reach the playoffs and not good enough to advance in the playoffs? He has had ample opportunities in a weak NFC to show his playoff capabilities.

Considering that the help needed is actually much greater than you anticipate (see 32 point beating before garbage time vs GB and the 3rd meltdown vs SF in a row this past season)-it is extremely unlikely this perfect storm happens in the next 4-5 seasons. Again-you are trying to extrapolate regular season results to the playoffs. It does not work that way. Regular season beatdowns against the lowest level competition does not show any type of correlation to performance versus playoff opponents. If multiple beatdowns had come against playoff opponents, then I could see why someone would predict better playoff performance. The Cowboys hit the lottery this last season (2nd seed), Dak pooped his pants (and the defense folded), and GB (the 7th seed) demolished the team at home.

I cannot see how any Cowboys fan gets done watching that game (and recalling other Dak poor playoff performances) and comes to the conclusion that Dak just needs a bit more help (because of some regular season performances).

I fully understand your disappointment in Daks playoff performances.
I feel the same disappointment but I also feel if we don't get real linebackers playing the linebacker position we don't get run stopping defensive tackles and we don't pick up a real NFL center along with a Bell cow running back.

We are not going to have playoff success no matter what quarterback we have if these issues are not attended to first

 

[MikeyJones214]

Patrick Mahomes didnt have to score 30 points to win any of the 21 games that Kansas City played this year, sounds like he had plenty of help from his defense.

Give Dak the same, "You dont have to score 30 points to win any of the games including the super bowl" and we likely wouldve gone pretty far.

Mahomes looked like an average qb in the first half of the super bowl, threw a bad interception. Kansas City defense kept them in the game until Andy Reid figured something out. Dak has none of that luxury.

How many times does it need to be said that we are not simply judging him off this season.

The previous 2 seasons, our defense played great holding the 49ers to under 20 points.

The last 2 seasons Dak has had the ball in his hands late in the game with the chance to tie the game and has come up short both times.

People saying "If Dak had a defense blah blah" don't understand that he had it and the outcome was still the same.

Dak is wak