The Outlier QB vs A 1st Round QB Working Out

[MikeyJones214]

I fully understand your disappointment in Daks playoff performances.
I feel the same disappointment but I also feel if we don't get real linebackers playing the linebacker position we don't get run stopping defensive tackles and we don't pick up a real NFL center along with a Bell cow running back.

We are not going to have playoff success no matter what quarterback we have if these issues are not attended to first

Everything you said is exactly why it all circles back to Dak

his salary simply does not allow for this team to be "well rounded"

When you give a QB that type of contract, you are basically saying he has to overcome weak spots such as a weak LB or mediocre RBs.

There is no way around it.

Dak is the worst type of starter you can have, a good player being paid as an elite one.

 

[Blackrain]

Everything you said is exactly why it all circles back to Dak

his salary simply does not allow for this team to be "well rounded"

When you give a QB that type of contract, you are basically saying he has to overcome weak spots such as a weak LB or mediocre RBs.

There is no way around it.

Dak is the worst type of starter you can have, a good player being paid as an elite one.

Well I can't fault Dak for the scheme or lack of proper personnel on the defense that was on Quinn and the front office.

But the fact that Dak and CD were not on the same page he has to be responsible for in a playoff game I think he had like 50 yards rushing so he pretty much did all he could there but he was not prepared for that game and that's not excusable .

In short daks ability in the playoffs has been given a big enough sample size where we know what it is and what help is needed we just have to have him be flexible enough with his salary to let us get him that help

 

[Blitzen]

I fully understand your disappointment in Daks playoff performances.
I feel the same disappointment but I also feel if we don't get real linebackers playing the linebacker position we don't get run stopping defensive tackles and we don't pick up a real NFL center along with a Bell cow running back.

We are not going to have playoff success no matter what quarterback we have if these issues are not attended to first

No, disappointed is not how I feel. I’ve been done with Dak for years-I don’t need to see more. Any extension is an automatic extension of zero deep playoff runs-plus 3-4 years of the next QB’s development (at least). As a fan, I would not extend him for anything past veteran minimum-no matter how many yards/TDs he puts up against the bottom feeders. The rebuild will need to happen either way-best to move along.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

Well I can't fault Dak for the scheme or lack of proper personnel on the defense that was on Quinn and the front office.

But the fact that Dak and CD were not on the same page he has to be responsible for in a playoff game I think he had like 50 yards rushing so he pretty much did all he could there but he was not prepared for that game and that's not excusable .

In short daks ability in the playoffs has been given a big enough sample size where we know what it is and what help is needed we just have to have him be flexible enough with his salary to let us get him that help

So you have a little bit of faith, that with enough help, Dak can do something that’s never been done in NFL history?

You see something special in him that tells you that he’s the guy that can make history?

 

[Flamma]

When was the last time a top 5 pick won a SB for the team that drafted them? I think it's over a decade. So don't pick QBs in the top 5.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

When was the last time a top 5 pick won a SB for the team that drafted them? I think it's over a decade. So don't pick QBs in the top 5.

If only 1 QB ever picked in the top 5 won a Super Bowl with the team that drafted them
It would still be 1 more Super Bowl than a QB with Daks circumstances

 

[Flamma]

If only 1 QB ever picked in the top 5 won a Super Bowl with the team that drafted them
It would still be 1 more Super Bowl than a QB with Daks circumstances

We know this already. It's hard to even get to a SB post your rookie contract for any QB 13-15% of the cap, let alone win one. Mahomes is the unicorn.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

We know this already. It's hard to even get to a SB post your rookie contract for any QB 13-15% of the cap, let alone win one. Mahomes is the unicorn.

Have you read through this thread? There’s still a few that believe that with enough help Dak can and will be the QB that makes NFL history and becomes the ultimate outlier.

 

[Captain-Crash]

dak is the schleprock, with fear issues. you can't have everything.

 

[Blitzen]

When was the last time a top 5 pick won a SB for the team that drafted them? I think it's over a decade. So don't pick QBs in the top 5.

The problem that most of those teams face goes way beyond the QB. Those clubs are bottom dwellers for the 3 year (at most) cyclical hiring/firing of the front office and coaching staff.

In some ways, Jerry is correct to say the Cowboys have an advantage in stability-though that has only translated into regular season success. Everybody else has to swing for the fences, and the probabilities are not good and can create a bottom feeder rut (QB’s are forced into action before they or the team is ready and then they bust predictably).

 

[khiladi]

So the Super Bowl from two days ago was between the last player drafted and a first round QB and goes to OT and you think this is a good time for this point?

The other outlier you fail to mention is Dak had 8 years of tape, while Brock has 2 and he was in the SB and does a lot of things much better than Dak, among them his ability to process quickly. And Brock is on his first contract and the 49ers aren’t bound to him…

 

[khiladi]

I’m fine with drafting a QB. I just would prefer that if we’re going to go with that model we should also go for a full rebuild including coaches.

No half measures

If they draft a QB, that automatically entails full rebuild mode…. They go hand and hand.. there is no more attachment to catering to the guy who has been here 8 years running, with everything tailored to him..

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

The other outlier you fail to mention is Dak had 8 years of tape, while Brock has 2 and he was in the SB and does a lot of things much better than Dak, among them his ability to process quickly. And Brock is on his first contract and the 49ers aren’t bound to him…

49ers won’t pay Purdy as much as Mahomes like the Cowboys do with Dak also.

IF the 49ers choose to roll with Purdy, which I’m not convinced they will, he will take a reasonable contract or they’ll move on.

They operate like an organization that cares about winning.

 

[Blackrain]

So you have a little bit of faith, that with enough help, Dak can do something that’s never been done in NFL history?

You see something special in him that tells you that he’s the guy that can make history?

That would be correct I believe he's good enough to get us further in the playoffs if the front office does its part.
Jerry talks about going all in he hasn't come close up to now.

If we had gotten Bobby Wagner last year 49ers got hargrave and Young.
Jonathan hankins is our Big splash what's worse when he's out we really suck.

We hang our hat on a running back that's coming back from a bad injury instead of being active at the trade deadline and getting Derrick Henry to make a playoff run.
Understand this it doesn't matter who you have at quarterback the history lesson is if your front office is not going to go all in you are going to fail

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

That would be correct I believe he's good enough to get us further in the playoffs if the front office does its part.
Jerry talks about going all in he hasn't come close up to now.

If we had gotten Bobby Wagner last year 49ers got hargrave and Young.
Jonathan hankins is our Big splash what's worse when he's out we really suck.

We hang our hat on a running back that's coming back from a bad injury instead of being active at the trade deadline and getting Derrick Henry to make a playoff run.
Understand this it doesn't matter who you have at quarterback the history lesson is if your front office is not going to go all in you are going to fail

I wish they would make all the moves you want them too.

I would be interested in seeing your response when Dak plays small during big games, like he has his entire career, and we lose.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

I'm all for moving on from Dak. But there are a lot of factors which comes with finding Super Bowl success with first round QBs other than a team just drafting one. Takes a front office who is willing to change their philosophy in how they approach team and roster building. If the ways they have been running the team hasn't been working before. This includes going "all in" while that first round QB is on his rookie contract. We don't know if the Joneses would go all in or if they would be in the mentality to believe that just drafting a first round QB alone is enough to get the Cowboys to a Super Bowl. Or if they would be under the impression that a first round QB will be "elite" enough not to need as much help as later round QBs. Therefore they don't have to change much about the roster or how they run the team, on their belief that the first round QB will singlehandedly be the "savior" for this franchise.

Some franchises like KC can hit right away on a first round QB. While others like the Jets can go through several drafts selecting multiple first round QBs without hitting on any of them. And still being at the bottom of the NFL during the seasons they have played these first rounders as starters. We would have to hope that the Cowboys are closer to the teams who found their franchise QB with one try. Than the teams who have to go years of being bad to be able to pick in the top ten over and over again. Still just to not have round their franchise QB through the first round of the draft yet.

 

[Creeper]

Why is it so hard for you guys to just answer a couple of simple questions that the OP is driving at?

Do you believe the chances of Dak succeeding in the postseason are good enough to continue building around him (he is NOT asking what Jones will do or what you think he will do)?

Knowing that Dak would be the first QB to ever start appearing in conference championships or SB’s at this point in his career-should make fans question Dak’s ability to succeed where everyone else has failed (in league history). If you are of the mind that Dak is going to succeed in the playoffs, what evidence do you have to support your case (please say it’s his regular season stats vs the Washingtons, Giants, Panthers of the league)?

If you concede that you do not believe Dak will ever ultimately succeed in the playoffs, what would be the issue as a fan with moving on right now? It’s not the salary cap-see what Denver is about to do with Wilson and his contract.

I just don't understand how we could think that there is some SB winning QB out there for Dallas to draft or sign that will guaranteed be better than Dak. The comments, "cut Dak and draft a QB in the first round" sounds so simple, but the reality is that won't work as well as the anti-Dak people think. Many teams have already done that and not made it to the Super Bowl.

Since 2000, the Browns, Jags, Jets, and Commanders have drafted 4 QBs in the first round. None of those teams have been to a Super Bowl in that time period. The Browns and Jets traded for a top QB after failing to draft one. The Commanders still don't have a QB.

The Patriots drafted 1 QB in the first round since 2000. That was Mac Jones. We know how that turned out. But Tom Brady was passed over by over team in the NFL at least 5 times in the draft. But we have to assume if Jerry is looking for a QB he would be the one to spot the Tom Brady in a crowd.

The question for me is, would I rather the Cowboys have winning seasons, win division titles, and make it into the playoffs fairly consistently with Dak? Or, would I prefer to let Dak go, and hope that by chance the next Patrick Mahomes falls into Jerry's lap in a year or 2? The problem is, we don't know how long that will take. The Bears, Bills, Broncos, Browns, Bucs, Cards, Chargers, Jets, Jags, and Commanders have all drafted at least 3 first round QBs since 2000. Some have gotten good QBs but none have gotten to a Super Bowl.

Heck, the Colts draft Andrew Luck and still never made it to a Super Bowl.

So if you ask me, do the Cowboys have a better chance of making it to a Super Bowl with Dak, than without him in the next 5 years, I think the answer is with him. Because if they cut him the chances of getting there in the next 5 years with some unknown is slim to none.

We have to stop ignoring the other weaknesses on this team and pretending that there is some QB out there good enough to overcome them. Mahomes is a great QB, but without his defense he doesn't win the Super Bowl either.

 

[MountaineerCowboy]

I just don't understand how we could think that there is some SB winning QB out there for Dallas to draft or sign that will guaranteed be better than Dak. The comments, "cut Dak and draft a QB in the first round" sounds so simple, but the reality is that won't work as well as the anti-Dak people think. Many teams have already done that and not made it to the Super Bowl.

Since 2000, the Browns, Jags, Jets, and Commanders have drafted 4 QBs in the first round. None of those teams have been to a Super Bowl in that time period. The Browns and Jets traded for a top QB after failing to draft one. The Commanders still don't have a QB.

The Patriots drafted 1 QB in the first round since 2000. That was Mac Jones. We know how that turned out. But Tom Brady was passed over by over team in the NFL at least 5 times in the draft. But we have to assume if Jerry is looking for a QB he would be the one to spot the Tom Brady in a crowd.

The question for me is, would I rather the Cowboys have winning seasons, win division titles, and make it into the playoffs fairly consistently with Dak? Or, would I prefer to let Dak go, and hope that by chance the next Patrick Mahomes falls into Jerry's lap in a year or 2? The problem is, we don't know how long that will take. The Bears, Bills, Broncos, Browns, Bucs, Cards, Chargers, Jets, Jags, and Commanders have all drafted at least 3 first round QBs since 2000. Some have gotten good QBs but none have gotten to a Super Bowl.

Heck, the Colts draft Andrew Luck and still never made it to a Super Bowl.

So if you ask me, do the Cowboys have a better chance of making it to a Super Bowl with Dak, than without him in the next 5 years, I think the answer is with him. Because if they cut him the chances of getting there in the next 5 years with some unknown is slim to none.

We have to stop ignoring the other weaknesses on this team and pretending that there is some QB out there good enough to overcome them. Mahomes is a great QB, but without his defense he doesn't win the Super Bowl either.

“Don’t trade up for Mahomes! We just need to get Alex Smith more help. We can’t move on from Smith because solid QBs like him are hard to find”

 

[Jarntt]

The other outlier you fail to mention is Dak had 8 years of tape, while Brock has 2 and he was in the SB and does a lot of things much better than Dak, among them his ability to process quickly. And Brock is on his first contract and the 49ers aren’t bound to him…

I'm not talking about Dak or any other specific QB (other than to use as examples), I'm pointing out that there have been many 1st round busts and many non-first round QBs good enough to win a SB over the years. This becomes extra important when you are picking at #24 if the point of the thread is to just pick a 1st round QB and expect it to work out.

 

[Flamma]

Have you read through this thread? There’s still a few that believe that with enough help Dak can and will be the QB that makes NFL history and becomes the ultimate outlier.

Not going to happen. Purdy, Jared Goff, Jalen Hurts, all rookie deals. Not going to happen when their cap hits are 15%.