The Penn State Aftermath Thread *Penalty Post #403*

[joseephuss]

Case of NCAA justifying its existance IMO. People who commit crimes and cover them up go to prison. This is a legal matter and loss of freedom should be enough of a deterent. If you want to send a message to these universities hit them in the wallet, as in millions. Punishing the current staff and players makes no sense at all.

A death penalty, tv ban or bowl ban would hit them in the wallet. Yes, it would punish the current staf and players, but it would cost the university millions in revenue to receive one of those types of punishments.

 

[joseephuss]

Then why is no one talking about Curley or Spanier and outraged that they are still being paid 6 figure salaries to take a long vacation right now?

Tell me why you think no one is talking about that, because, certainly, that is something that people should be very upset about, no? They are guys who were also involved, also higher ups at the university, and also didn't do what they should have. Joe is fired and dead, and these guys are sipping martini's watching reruns of MASH on their big screen tv's being paid 6 figure salaries right now by the university to do nothing.. and yet people arn't talking about that anywhere. Why, in your opinion?

You really don't think people have brought up Curley or Spanier or Schulz on this message board? Perhaps you skipped over those because you are only looking for comments about Paterno. These guys have been talked about and will continue to be talked about. If these guys had statues up, people would want them removed as well. People want justice and have discussed it. You want to ignore that fact, but it does exist. Keep deflecting.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Case of NCAA justifying its existance IMO. People who commit crimes and cover them up go to prison. This is a legal matter and loss of freedom should be enough of a deterrent. If you want to send a message to these universities hit them in the wallet, as in millions. Punishing the current staff and players makes no sense at all.

It's all about deterrent.

Being able to punish the schools when misdeeds are done is the "switch" that keeps most of them from crossing the line. Most know that if they screw up, it's the school's future that will suffer.

Without that "switch" schools would have far less fear about crossing the line.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

You really don't think people have brought up Curley or Spanier or Schulz on this message board? Perhaps you skipped over those because you are only looking for comments about Paterno. These guys have been talked about and will continue to be talked about. If these guys had statues up, people would want them removed as well. People want justice and have discussed it. You want to ignore that fact, but it does exist. Keep deflecting.

Who cares about a stupid statue, they have JOBS! AND 6 FIGURE SALARIES RIGHT NOW! ..and yet our society is enraged about a freaking statue.

Good Lord, i give up on most of this population..

..and they may have been mentioned in passing on this situation once or twice, but don't act like anybody has been campaigning against them anywhere near as much as people are against a guy who is already dead and judged by the one person who matters. Their names come up once in awhile, but no one is enraged with them like they are with the one guy taking the fall for this entire situation.

You say im defecting to try and bring up other people involved to take focus away from Joe Paterno?

Oh no, don't let me intervene with rationality.. i'll let everyone back to their yearlong tirade against a guy who is already dead and buried.. meanwhile others who were just as guilty, if not more, can just sit back kickin it with their jobs and their 6 figure salaries being paid to take an indefinite vacation right now while no one really talks about that at all.. i mean, who cares about that, right?

Again, good grief..

 

[joseephuss]

Who cares about a stupid statue, they have JOBS! AND 6 FIGURE SALARIES RIGHT NOW! ..and yet our society is enraged about a freaking statue.

Good Lord, i give up on most of this population..

..and they may have been mentioned in passing on this situation once or twice, but don't act like anybody has been campaigning against them anywhere near as much as people are against a guy who is already dead and judged by the one person who matters. Their names come up once in awhile, but no one is enraged with them like they are with the one guy taking the fall for this entire situation.

You say im defecting to try and bring up other people involved to take focus away from Joe Paterno?

Oh no, don't let me intervene with rationality.. i'll let everyone back to their yearlong tirade against a guy who is already dead and buried.. meanwhile others who were just as guilty, if not more, can just sit back kickin it with their jobs and their 6 figure salaries being paid to take an indefinite vacation right now while no one really talks about that at all.. i mean, who cares about that, right?

Again, good grief..

You should really get those arm bands that Wonder Woman wears to help with all your deflection.

 

[RS12]

It's all about deterrent.

Being able to punish the schools when misdeeds are done is the "switch" that keeps most of them from crossing the line. Most know that if they screw up, it's the school's future that will suffer.

Without that "switch" schools would have far less fear about crossing the line.

Remember the line from one of the Dirty Harry movies, "there nothing wrong with shooting as long as the right people get shot." In huge sanctions all the wrong people get shot. Let the government take care of the perps as they have ability to do in this case. Lets not do a St Valentines day massacre on all the wrong people. 7 or 8 games a year provides alot of money to the surrounding area on game days. The NCAA as usual are the Keystone Cops.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

You should really get those arm bands that Wonder Woman wears to help with all your deflection.

Just to be completely sure, all you think im trying to do here is deflect blame away from Joe Paterno?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Remember the line from one of the Dirty Harry movies, "there nothing wrong with shooting as long as the right people get shot." In huge sanctions all the wrong people get shot. Let the government take care of the perps as they have ability to do in this case. Lets not do a St Valentines day massacre on all the wrong people. 7 or 8 games a year provides alot of money to the surrounding area on game days. The NCAA as usual are the Keystone Cops.

But again, these schools know... And they've known for a long, long time that if they commit misdeeds that violate the spirit of what the NCAA represents then they will be punished and the school will be punished AND students/faculty that were never part of the misdeed(s) will be punished.

Schools have know that... They've always known that.

 

[joseephuss]

Just to be completely sure, all you think im trying to do here is deflect blame away from Joe Paterno?

That is my perception, yes. It sures comes across that way.

You talk about the media coverage, but most of the guys on this board don't cling to every word about the mead. If your problem truly is with the media, then you have many an ally on this board. That won't remain allies when you call them judgemental hyprocrits(which in itself is being a judgemental hyporcrite) for sharing their views on Paterno.

Members of this board have also shared the views on Curley, Schultz and Spanier and others involved. No one here has offered up any type of support for these guys. If anyone has gotten any support on this board, it is Paterno even if it is by a very small minority. Most on here want the book thrown at Curley, Schultz and Spanier and have said so. Most think Sandusky got off easy and have said as much. Some think McQueary still has questions to answer.

I don't know how you could have overlooked the outrage that has been directed at the whole univeristy. Even when I go to media stories, I read the comments by readers/viewers and the vast majority of people want a whole bunch of PSU leaders and administration to pay for their part. No one is being overlooked especially here. I can guarantee that when the final punishsments are doled out to Spanier, Schulz and Curley people on this board won't be satisfied.

So, yes when you come on here and claim that there is too much blame put on Paterno and not enough coverage on the other guys it comes across as deflection.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

But again, these schools know... And they've known for a long, long time that if they commit misdeeds that violate the spirit of what the NCAA represents then they will be punished and the school will be punished AND students/faculty that were never part of the misdeed(s) will be punished.

Schools have know that... They've always known that.

..and yet there are always going to be selfish individuals among any group. Should those groups all be punished? Punish thousands of innocents because of the crimes of a couple? That thinking is just wrong.. whether that is how it is handled or not.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

..and yet there are always going to be selfish individuals among any group. Should those groups all be punished? Punish thousands of innocents because of the crimes of a couple? That thinking is just wrong.. whether that is how it is handled or not.

Guess what?

Life isn't fair.

It happens in business (one company buys out another and proceeds to layoff many of the folks in the company they purchased).

It happens in war (the losing country's entire citizenship is punished because of what their leader's foistered upon them).

It happened to SMU's following classes.

At least the football team will be able to do what they've gone to PSU to do... play football.

So I wouldn't drop too many tears.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

That is my perception, yes. It sures comes across that way.

You talk about the media coverage, but most of the guys on this board don't cling to every word about the mead. If your problem truly is with the media, then you have many an ally on this board. That won't remain allies when you call them judgemental hyprocrits(which in itself is being a judgemental hyporcrite) for sharing their views on Paterno.

So, yes when you come on here and claim that there is too much blame put on Paterno and not enough coverage on the other guys it comes across as deflection.

What's hypocricital are people who act like they are enraged by the entire situation, yet only talk about one man, a man who is dead and buried, while they never seem nearly as upset at the others involved, even those a couple of those who committed just as much, if not more wrong.. are still being paid 6 figures to take a long vacation BY THE UNIVERSITY..and you don't hear a peep about it.

You can sit here and claim all you want that people ARE in fact enraged just as much at these individuals, and blah blah blah.. but the fact is Curley and Spanier arn't talked about hardly at all. We could both go back and look at the posts and we'd see exactly that. There may be a comment here and there about Curley and a comment here and there about Spanier, but in all the threads, well over a couple thousand posts on the subject, there is NOWHERE NEAR the amount of anger and resentment for these men as there is for the man the media chose to blame for the whole damn thing.

I get it, Joe Paterno was wrong. I've said this more times than i should have had to. He absolutely messed up big time and it was tragic what happened. But over 100 other men and women, some in higher authority than he, committed the same tremendous fault in judgement and could have helped prevent more boys from being harmed.. two of them were also indicted in the Freeh report, and continue to be paid by the university 6 figures to do nothing, and no one talks about that nearly as much, and most not at all.

Its simply stunning..and then for you to accuse me of simply trying to deflect blame? When we've had OVER HALF A YEAR of pitchforks, and stone throwing, and comdening, for this man! Forgive me if i think its getting a bit ******** and not helping anything and maybe our society should at least focus their energy on being upset at the ones still alive and still prospering and living more comfortably than most any of us, provided for by the university.. if we arn't going to be focused on doing things that help the victims.

That's all i have to say about this.. if you think this is all a big "Joe didn't do nothing wrong, he a God of da fuutbool" thing behind this, then i honestly just feel sorry for you.

Resume with the usual chatter..

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Guess what?

Life isn't fair.

It happens in business (one company buys out another and proceeds to layoff many of the folks in the company they purchased).

It happens in war (the losing country's entire citizenship is punished because of what their leader's foistered upon them).

It happened to SMU's following classes.

At least the football team will be able to do what they've gone to PSU to do... play football.

So I wouldn't drop too many tears.

..and that is all i was saying, that they should at least be given the chance. The deck will be stacked against them (and rightfully so), but they at least deserve a chance to do what they came there to do, and for the new coaching staff to start building toward a new future for the program.

 

[joseephuss]

I don't think the fact that Paterno is dead and buried really has any impact on what people say or think about the man. The outrage would still be the same toward him and the others involved if he were still alive and well. It actually may even be a bit worse for him as some would be pushing him to be charged with crimes if possible.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

..and that is all i was saying, that they should at least be given the chance. The deck will be stacked against them (and rightfully so), but they at least deserve a chance to do what they came there to do, and for the new coaching staff to start building toward a new future for the program.

They are going to get to play football.

And they'll still be able to beat the weak sisters of college football.

And if they lose more often to better schools?

I don't think that's going to ruin anyone's life.

 

[jimmy40]

OK prediction time for these unprecedented penalties:

Loss of 20 scholarships over 4 years
Bowl ban for 5 years.

anybody have a guess?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

anybody have a guess?

Not really, but your guess sounds like it's in the ball park.

 

[joseephuss]

anybody have a guess?

TV and bowl ban for 2 years. I think that is unprecedented. If the rumors are true that it is something big, but not the death penalty then this falls along those lines. If it is supposedly harsher penalty that the school would have rather received the death penalty, then make that a 6 or 7 year TV ban, but I don't think that is going to happen.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

They are going to get to play football.

And they'll still be able to beat the weak sisters of college football.

And if they lose more often to better schools?

I don't think that's going to ruin anyone's life.

Im not really concerned with who they beat or lose too, just the principle that they shouldn't pay for other men's crimes. Especially the ones who are just kids. Like you said, it'll be a priviledge enough to just be allowed to play football.

On a related topic, i did say it earlier i think, but i believe we couldn't have asked for a better choice for a new coach to handle this and push this program forward into a new future than O'Brien. He seems like he's said all the right things so far and is just focused on coming in and doing things his way, no nonsense, just focused on doing things the right way and building a good program.

The Jason Garrett of PSU sorta.. that's kind of how he comes off to me.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Someone posted on another site a very concise and IMO very accurate reason for the punishment...

"The reason this is an NCAA issue and correctly within their jurisdiction to punish is because Penn State officials knowingly covered up the transgressions of Sandusky. They did this to protect the image of their football program in order to continue to recruit and build their program at an elite level because that was more important to them."

And that is why the current and future program must take their "lumps"