The "elite" safeties and their stats through 3 games..

[smarta5150]

The horsecollar was stupid but I can see the thinking behind it. The player was trying to get out of bounds to stop the clock and Williams was doing everything in his power to keep him in bounds. It was a very smart play that suffered from poor execution when he came down on the opponent's leg, triggering the penalty.

And in turn that is really messing with Roy's mentality when pursuing players.

I honestly believe his armless tackle/push in the back was him afraid of getting another horse collar.

The old Roy in that situation would have grabbed the TE up high from behind.

 

[aikemirv]

And in turn that is really messing with Roy's mentality when pursuing players.

I honestly believe his armless tackle/push in the back was him afraid of getting another horse collar.

The old Roy in that situation would have grabbed the TE up high from behind.

Nevertheless, it is poor technique. So you are going to excuse him because he is not allowed to use his poor technique anymore.

I like Roy but that stupid penalty and that tackle was very irritating. If Bradie James did that everyone would be calling for his head! I really don't have a problem with Williams covering abilities because there really are not many safeties that can handle Shockey or Witten or any of the top TE's, that is why they are the top TE's, but he should be better than that sloppy tackle on the TE.

All he has to do is wrap up! I don't think that is asking too much or being overly critical or a cause for getting stats brought out to say how he is outperforming other safeties, that is really not the issue. Correct your flaws and make yourself better, if that means proper technique then by all means work after practice with the tackling dummy and get rid of your bad habits!

Don't let "good enough" be good enough.

 

[AdamJT13]

And even the best players miss tackles from time to time too.

Urlacher missed the tackle that led to Barber's 54-yard run.

 

[smarta5150]

Urlacher missed the tackle that led to Barber's 54-yard run.

Shhh Adam.

No one in the league misses tackles except Roy Williams.

 

[EMMITTnROY]

this amazes me.. I post some numbers on a Dallas Cowboys fansite that fully show that a Dallas Cowboy has better stats than every other big name player at his position, and yet here we are 6 pages later and Dallas Cowboys fans are arguing against the stats to say that he isn't any good.. but the real icing on the cake is that I am attacked by fellow Cowboys fans because I am trying to convince them that, yes, this Dallas Cowboy is in fact very good..

and the funny thing is that people still can't back up their arguments with any of the numbers that Hostile is asking them to present.. and then Adam and others present stats from professionals who do this for a living that tell us that Roy is in the top 1/3 of all starting safeties when it comes to coverage, but people balk at that as well.. all we keep reading is that "that was a pathetic tackle!" or "stats don't tell the whole story!".. how come stats tell the story for every other NFL player besides Roy Williams?

here's the bottom line: Roy is a great player, one of the best defenders in the NFL.. he makes some bad plays, but so does every single player in the NFL.. How many interceptions has Peyton Manning thrown in his career? How many fumbles did Jim Brown have in his career? How many dropped passes did Jerry Rice have? You think that Colts, Browns and 49ers fans were ready to dump those guys after each INT, fumble or dropped pass? No, and you want to know why? Because they were difference makers, game changers, and for every INT, Manning has thrown 2 or 3 touchdown passes, for every fumble, Jim Brown had 5 or 6 broken tackles, and for every dropped pass, Jerry Rice had 3 or 4 incredible, one-handed catches.. For every missed tackle and missed assignment, Roy has 2 or 3 INTs or fumbles forced or tackles for losses or punishing hits.. and those plays change games and they win games.. you know those stats that I showed you at the beginning of this thread, some 6 pages ago? every one of those guys could also have stats that show missed tackles, big plays given up, and blown assignments.. the difference is, Roy leads all those guys in positive plays that make up for those plays and change games and win games..

here's my challenge to the Roy bashers (I can't believe I'm doing this on a Cowboys fansite.. but oh well): actually watch some of those other guys.. watch a Ravens game, watch an Eagles game, watch a Colts game, a Cardinals game, a Commanders game.. If you actually watch those games and can come back and tell me that Ed Reed doesn't give up big plays and that Sean Taylor doesn't miss tackles and that Brian Dawkins doesn't blow assignments, then I will actually listen to what you are trying to say.. Until then, just shut the heck up, cause you really don't know what you're talking about.. Ignorance and a loud mouth, not a good combination..

 

[zrinkill]

here's the bottom line: Roy is a great player, one of the best defenders in the NFL.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Every player who has ever played the game at any position has a liability factor.

Wow.. did you just generalize the heck out of that.

You know what I mean. He could limit his liability by making the sure play instead of trying to knock the ball out.

 

[aikemirv]

here's my challenge to the Roy bashers (I can't believe I'm doing this on a Cowboys fansite.. but oh well): actually watch some of those other guys.. watch a Ravens game, watch an Eagles game, watch a Colts game, a Cardinals game, a Commanders game.. If you actually watch those games and can come back and tell me that Ed Reed doesn't give up big plays and that Sean Taylor doesn't miss tackles and that Brian Dawkins doesn't blow assignments, then I will actually listen to what you are trying to say.. Until then, just shut the heck up, cause you really don't know what you're talking about.. Ignorance and a loud mouth, not a good combination..

Guess what, if they played for the Cowboys and kept making stupid mistakes I would get irritated with them too. Interceptions, fumbles, drops, all of that kind of crap happens in the NFL. You know what, if Crayton can't catch well enough to handle that simple TD pass he should not have been in the game! That drop and Int could have costs us the game. Even though he has the best hands on the team it does not excuse it, he should not be in there, coaches fault, not his!

Roy Williams costs us 45 yards on that series alone with the horsecollar and the shoulder tackle. (not just a missed tackle)

How many people on here still bring up Romos' 4 fumbles in Detroit last year? He threw for 321 yards and 2 TD's and 71% but the fumbles cost us the game.

Mistakes are fine, just don't keep repeating the same ones.

TO had 1400 yards and 14 td's last year and we concentrate on the drops that cost us the Skins game and possible the NY game.

 

[aikemirv]

Shhh Adam.

No one in the league misses tackles except Roy Williams.

Anybody got the video, I want to see if he just threw a shoulder at him or did he at least try to wrap him up.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Guess what, if they played for the Cowboys and kept making stupid mistakes I would get irritated with them too. Interceptions, fumbles, drops, all of that kind of crap happens in the NFL. You know what, if Crayton can't catch well enough to handle that simple TD pass he should not have been in the game! That drop and Int could have costs us the game. Even though he has the best hands on the team it does not excuse it, he should not be in there, coaches fault, not his!

Roy Williams costs us 45 yards on that series alone with the horsecollar and the shoulder tackle. (not just a missed tackle)

How many people on here still bring up Romos' 4 fumbles in Detroit last year? He threw for 321 yards and 2 TD's and 71% but the fumbles cost us the game.

Mistakes are fine, just don't keep repeating the same ones.

TO had 1400 yards and 14 td's last year and we concentrate on the drops that cost us the Skins game and possible the NY game.

After Crayton dropped that TD... Madden said, "yeah he was dropping most of those during warmups"

 

[superpunk]

TO had 1400 yards and 14 td's last year and we concentrate on the drops that cost us the Skins game and possible the NY game.

The trouble with that is, that these "We" people are idiots.

 

[EMMITTnROY]

Guess what, if they played for the Cowboys and kept making stupid mistakes I would get irritated with them too. Interceptions, fumbles, drops, all of that kind of crap happens in the NFL. You know what, if Crayton can't catch well enough to handle that simple TD pass he should not have been in the game! That drop and Int could have costs us the game. Even though he has the best hands on the team it does not excuse it, he should not be in there, coaches fault, not his!

Roy Williams costs us 45 yards on that series alone with the horsecollar and the shoulder tackle. (not just a missed tackle)

How many people on here still bring up Romos' 4 fumbles in Detroit last year? He threw for 321 yards and 2 TD's and 71% but the fumbles cost us the game.

Mistakes are fine, just don't keep repeating the same ones.

TO had 1400 yards and 14 td's last year and we concentrate on the drops that cost us the Skins game and possible the NY game.

Soooo.. Peyton Manning should stop throwing interceptions? That's brilliant, great idea.. I don't think Peyton has thought of that before..

Listen, by your line of thinking, there shouldn't be any players in the NFL.. Players make mistakes.. And on the flip side of that, those "mistakes" are a lot of times created by the other players making plays.. All of these guys are professionals, you know.. Other teams have playmakers too.. If you can find me one NFL player who didn't make mistakes and that always won every single one-on-one battle he was ever confronted with, I'll show you a rainbow colored unicorn that grants you three wishes and wisks you off to Happyville..

 

[aikemirv]

Soooo.. Peyton Manning should stop throwing interceptions? That's brilliant, great idea.. I don't think Peyton has thought of that before..

Listen, by your line of thinking, there shouldn't be any players in the NFL.. Players make mistakes.. And on the flip side of that, those "mistakes" are a lot of times created by the other players making plays.. All of these guys are professionals, you know.. Other teams have playmakers too.. If you can find me one NFL player who didn't make mistakes and that always won every single one-on-one battle he was ever confronted with, I'll show you a rainbow colored unicorn that grants you three wishes and wisks you off to Happyville..

Nice twisting of words there because you know exactly what I mean and I am not going to waste my breath explaining it to you!!!

 

[junk]

I really think that some people's problem with Williams stems from his rookie season. He had arguably the greatest rookie season for a safety in NFL history. He's maintained his play at a consistently great level but some people were expecting it to get even better like most players do as they get into the prime of their careers. That's very hard to do when the initial bar was set so high.

Imagine if Ware never develops into anything more than an 8-12 sack player. Most people would love to have that type of production from an OLB but it that was the case, we'll see sniping about him become more commonplace. He'll get beat in coverage and someone will point to that preseason INT and claim he's lost a step or regressed or some other such nonsense.

If Williams was cut today, 31 teams would put in a waiver claim so fast our heads would spin. And he'd start for whomever claimed him as soon as he was up to speed.

I agree. I think this is a big part of it.

I had huge expectations for him after his rookie year and I think the fact that he's failed to build on it is a big part of what is so frustrating. I'd even be fine with that if he'd developed into a leader or had shown a strong offseason work ethic to build off that rookie year. You never hear about Roy Williams when the team discusses the players having the best offseasons or being gym rats. Hamlin had to be brought in to be the leader of the secondary.

He's good, but I think he can be much, much better. Unfortunately, you can't even discuss this without people calling you names (which, for some reason, the mods continually overlook).

He's good. I think he could be better. I expected him to exceed what Woodson did in Dallas and, right now, I don't think he is as complete of a player as Woodson.

Now, cue up his fans sitting at home in their Roy sweatpants to call me an idiot......

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I agree. I think this is a big part of it.

I had huge expectations for him after his rookie year and I think the fact that he's failed to build on it is a big part of what is so frustrating. I'd even be fine with that if he'd developed into a leader or had shown a strong offseason work ethic to build off that rookie year. You never hear about Roy Williams when the team discusses the players having the best offseasons or being gym rats. Hamlin had to be brought in to be the leader of the secondary.

He's good, but I think he can be much, much better. Unfortunately, you can't even discuss this without people calling you names (which, for some reason, the mods continually overlook).

He's good. I think he could be better. I expected him to exceed what Woodson did in Dallas and, right now, I don't think he is as complete of a player as Woodson.

Now, cue up his fans sitting at home in their Roy sweatpants to call me an idiot......

I dont want Roy to go to another team. Yes I know there would be plenty of takers. That isnt my point and apparently it isnt yours either.

Bottom line: He could play smarter... but he doesnt... cant?

 

[Mavs Man]

I really think that some people's problem with Williams stems from his rookie season. He had arguably the greatest rookie season for a safety in NFL history. He's maintained his play at a consistently great level but some people were expecting it to get even better like most players do as they get into the prime of their careers. That's very hard to do when the initial bar was set so high.

Imagine if Ware never develops into anything more than an 8-12 sack player. Most people would love to have that type of production from an OLB but it that was the case, we'll see sniping about him become more commonplace. He'll get beat in coverage and someone will point to that preseason INT and claim he's lost a step or regressed or some other such nonsense.

If Williams was cut today, 31 teams would put in a waiver claim so fast our heads would spin. And he'd start for whomever claimed him as soon as he was up to speed.

Excellent point.

 

[thekavorka]

Not that your post hasn't already been posted (nearly verbatim) earlier in this thread, but what exactly do you think those stats would prove that the other stats don't? Roy sucks? Your agenda?

If you think that those other safeties don't miss tackles, miss assignments, and allow completions...then you're...

Of course other safeties miss tackles, miss assignments, and allow completions.

I just want to know if they do those at the same rate that Roy does.

And I read the footballoutsiders ranking of Roy. Ok. That's a good analysis and they use GOOD stats to back it up. The stats used in the original post were dumb.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I agree. I think this is a big part of it.

I had huge expectations for him after his rookie year and I think the fact that he's failed to build on it is a big part of what is so frustrating. I'd even be fine with that if he'd developed into a leader or had shown a strong offseason work ethic to build off that rookie year. You never hear about Roy Williams when the team discusses the players having the best offseasons or being gym rats. Hamlin had to be brought in to be the leader of the secondary.

He's good, but I think he can be much, much better. Unfortunately, you can't even discuss this without people calling you names (which, for some reason, the mods continually overlook).

He's good. I think he could be better. I expected him to exceed what Woodson did in Dallas and, right now, I don't think he is as complete of a player as Woodson.

Now, cue up his fans sitting at home in their Roy sweatpants to call me an idiot......

Key words in your post is expectations. You expected him to be a leader and since he's not a defined team leader, then you're disappointed. I've never even thought nor expected Roy to be a team leader, which is why I'm not disappointed at him not being held as a team leader.

You expected him to build off an excellent rookie and he did not, because like Stanley said, it's hard to build off that. However, he's put together some consistently good seasons, on par with other top safeties, how do you not be happy with that.

I think it's a matter of accepting what he's done well production-wise and not dwell on the things where he's average.

BTW, production-wise, Roy's career, barring injury, will be better than Woody.

Also, as far as mods allowing name-calling, we miss things. There's a little red triangle under everyone's user name, if you're offended by a post, don't hesitate to report it.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Of course other safeties miss tackles, miss assignments, and allow completions.

I just want to know if they do those at the same rate that Roy does.

And I read the footballoutsiders ranking of Roy. Ok. That's a good analysis and they use GOOD stats to back it up. The stats used in the original post were dumb.

Not being funny, but if that's something you want to know, don't let anyone stop you from researching and finding out that info. Don't put the onus on someone else to find out what you want to know.

Tho, honestly, I only see Adam, probably coming up with that info, but you can certainly try.

 

[thekavorka]

Not being funny, but if that's something you want to know, don't let anyone stop you from researching and finding out that info. Don't put the onus on someone else to find out what you want to know.

Tho, honestly, I only see Adam, probably coming up with that info, but you can certainly try.

Usually I would, but for something like "missed assignments" and "being out of position", that would require me to watch every game over again as well as every game of every other team, something I do not have access to.

My point is that the stats in the OP do not say one thing or another. If you're going to make a thread detailing safeties and their stats, you should at least post stats that are meaningful like the ones that footballoutsiders.com uses