The "elite" safeties and their stats through 3 games..

[thekavorka]

It's not that useful for any players because it only measures plays when you are credited with a tackle (never mind the subjectivity and inaccuracy of the tackle stats kept during the game).

Let's say it's third-and-1 at midfield and a player makes the tackle after a 2-yard gain. Football Outsiders counts that as a "defeat" -- a bad play that lowers a player's "stop rate." But was it a bad play for a safety who came up from the secondary to make the tackle? Was it a bad play for a player who pursued from the other side of the field? Was it a bad play for a cornerback who made an open-field tackle and saved a big play? And if another player missed the tackle behind the line of scrimmage, that doesn't affect his "stop rate" because FO doesn't track those. Similarly, a player who hustles and makes a tackle downfield to save a touchdown is penalized because it counts as a "defeat," even if he wasn't responsible for the big gain.

There are just too many flaws (I could come up with more) in that stat to make it all that useful, if you ask me.

Ahhh. I didn't realize they didn't take into account all those factors. If they can watch all the games (and I guess that's their job), I don't understand why wouldn't they take into account all those factors?

 

[AdamJT13]

and I listed one player that was a backup or was cut and the rest are very productive at there positions but whatever

Oh, really? Just one? Let's see --

J Babineux -- A backup for Seattle, one interception since 2005, his only career starts came as an injury replacement
L Landry -- Zero career interceptions
M Lewis -- Benched by Eagles last year, now with 49ers
R Harrison -- Currently suspended for HGH, 34 years old, one interception since 2004
T Johnson (actually Lamont Thompson) -- Got cut by the Titans a few weeks ago, now a backup for Miami
M Huff -- Zero career interceptions

Yep, those are some "very productive" players on that list. Are you sure you don't want to throw in Adam Archuleta, Donovin Darius and Tony Parrish?

And no you do not need to list his game changing plays because I watch all the games and can see that he does do it much anymore.

Then either you need to pay better attention, or you need to gain some perspective.

 

[zrinkill]

Ok lets get one thing straight first I have no need for credibility on this site

You have no worries then.

See this is the flaw in your argument you want me to be happy with because he is COMPARABLE to other safeties where once he was thought of as maybe the best which is not even a plausible discussion any more.

So being comparable to the best safeties in the league (and having better stats) makes him not the best safety in the league????? I think its your argument that is "flawed" buddy.

And no you do not need to list his game changing plays because I watch all the games and can see that he does do it much anymore.

I agree ..... he does.

:laugh2: and what is Adam supposed to do. Hey I respect Adams abilitie to find stats to fit his argument and I use a lot of them to form my opinions on certain players but stats are not gonna make a difference when it comes to grading Roy.

Adam is money ....... but continue to ignore the stats in your ongoing badmouthing of Roy .... it just makes you look like someone who wants to believe something instead of someone who wants to see the truth.

 

[zrinkill]

What follows is a standard Roy bash / Roy apologist exchange reenactment.

Roy Basher: Roy is horrible! he's stealing from Jerry.
Roy Apologist: No. He's a good safety.
RB: No wai. Fat, biscuit, can't cover, misses tackles, blah.
RA: All safeties get beat, miss tackles, etc. Look at Ed Reed, Adrian Wilson, Troy Polamalu.
RB: I don't care how other safeties play, I only care about Roy screwing up.
RA: So what are you grading him against? He produces like the best safety in the league.
RB: Garrrr.....I grade him against me own unrealistic expectations. I view him in a vacuum, and expect the impossible.
RA: [Shoots self in head]

Rinse, repeat. Maybe add something in where they want more in depth stats, then when those are provided, they are degraded and viewed as inconsequential.

Some people just are what they are.

I have to say though ..... in your example the Roy "apologist" seem to be the reasonable ones.

 

[joseephuss]

How about his goal line interception in the Colts game last year?

How about his pick-six against McNabb and the Eagles on MNF?

That's just off the top of my head... both within the last 2 years.

He had a fumble recovery against the Panthers and an interception in the same game when it was still a close game.

Also in that Colts game, he was in on the coverage on the 4th down play late in the game. He knocked the receiver off the route giving Manning no target. That is a big play. The kind that does not show up on the stat sheet, so I can see where stats are deceiving.

He had an interception off a Newman deflection in the playoff game last year setting the offense up in good field position.

He had a first play of the game interception return for a TD against the Lions, but unfortunately a poor penalty was called against Newman that nullified the play. There are more plays, but the point has been proven.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

So you want to have the best player in the league at every position on the field?

Tough luck.

Well his salary would say that he is at least one of the best, production not so much

 

[tomson75]

Well his salary would say that he is at least one of the best, production not so much

You aren't by any chance sitting around in a tattered robe watching tranny porn with edunce are you? If not, you guys should hang out.

 

[AdamJT13]

Well his salary would say that he is at least one of the best, production not so much

Yeah, it's not like he led all NFC safeties in interceptions last season and led all safeties in takeaways.

Oh, wait -- he did.

 

[tomson75]

Yeah, it's not like he led all NFC safeties in interceptions last season and led all safeties in takeaways.

Oh, wait -- he did.

Dang. That was a far more appropriate response than mine. I take my first one back, and piggyback on this one. For the record.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

Oh, really? Just one? Let's see --

J Babineux -- A backup for Seattle, one interception since 2005, his only career starts came as an injury replacement
L Landry -- Zero career interceptions
M Lewis -- Benched by Eagles last year, now with 49ers
R Harrison -- Currently suspended for HGH, 34 years old, one interception since 2004
T Johnson (actually Lamont Thompson) -- Got cut by the Titans a few weeks ago, now a backup for Miami
M Huff -- Zero career interceptions

Yep, those are some "very productive" players on that list. Are you sure you don't want to throw in Adam Archuleta, Donovin Darius and Tony Parrish?




Then either you need to pay better attention, or you need to gain some perspective.

I listed the rookies and young players because I would take them over Roy, why is that so hard to understand INT's be dammed, and its not lamont but Tank but hey it fits your argument. I would take Harrison in a heartbeat over Roy and I might be mistaken but I think Babineux is starting now since they got rid of both there starters from last year.



You keep bringing up INT's and that is not the end all when judging a safety

 

[JIGGYFLY]

Yeah, it's not like he led all NFC safeties in interceptions last season and led all safeties in takeaways.

Oh, wait -- he did.

And that means what exactly, I mean they stiil had to change the scheme of the D to get him productive again I noticed you left out the AFC I mean he is what the 2nd highest paid safety in the NFL

 

[JIGGYFLY]

You aren't by any chance sitting around in a tattered robe watching tranny porn with edunce are you? If not, you guys should hang out.

What was the need for that, we cannot have a discussion without resorting to juvenile antics. And I bet you thought this was really funny?

 

[Danny White]

You keep bringing up INT's and that is not the end all when judging a safety

At least he's using some sort of standard by which to judge effectiveness.

You're using nothing but a "gut reaction" and a demand for more "game changing plays."

And then when a list of "game changing" plays is produced, you ignore it.

 

[tomson75]

What was the need for that, we cannot have a discussion without resorting to juvenile antics. And I bet you thought this was really funny?

Not really. I would have added one of those laughing things if I had. I find your inability to comprehend what has been said on this thread funny, but not my previous post. I took it back anyway.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

At least he's using some sort of standard by which to judge effectiveness.

You're using nothing but a "gut reaction" and a demand for more "game changing plays."

And then when a list of "game changing" plays is produced, you ignore it.

I got 2 that is not a list

 

[adamknite]

And that means what exactly, I mean they stiil had to change the scheme of the D to get him productive again I noticed you left out the AFC I mean he is what the 2nd highest paid safety in the NFL

Yes and Peyton Manning makes more then Tom Brady, but Tom Brady has more superbowl rings so Brady must be a better QB (since that's what I choose to judge them by).... therefore the Colts must get rid of Peyton Manning since he makes more but isn't quit as good....

perfect logic

 

[zrinkill]

At least he's using some sort of standard by which to judge effectiveness.

You're using nothing but a "gut reaction" and a demand for more "game changing plays."

And then when a list of "game changing" plays is produced, you ignore it.

 

[Danny White]

I got 2 that is not a list

Well, you only asked for one.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I listed the rookies and young players because I would take them over Roy, why is that so hard to understand INT's be dammed, and its not lamont but Tank but hey it fits your argument. I would take Harrison in a heartbeat over Roy and I might be mistaken but I think Babineux is starting now since they got rid of both there starters from last year.



You keep bringing up INT's and that is not the end all when judging a safety

There's a Tank Johnson who plays safety?

 

[adamknite]

He had a fumble recovery against the Panthers and an interception in the same game when it was still a close game.

Also in that Colts game, he was in on the coverage on the 4th down play late in the game. He knocked the receiver off the route giving Manning no target. That is a big play. The kind that does not show up on the stat sheet, so I can see where stats are deceiving.

He had an interception off a Newman deflection in the playoff game last year setting the offense up in good field position.

He had a first play of the game interception return for a TD against the Lions, but unfortunately a poor penalty was called against Newman that nullified the play. There are more plays, but the point has been proven.

How about his goal line interception in the Colts game last year?

How about his pick-six against McNabb and the Eagles on MNF?

That's just off the top of my head... both within the last 2 years.

I got 2 that is not a list

I'm not great at math... but I'm counting more then two.