The "elite" safeties and their stats through 3 games..

[superpunk]

Watch the Colts defense during the regular season and then during the post season last year. Bob Sanders is a big-time playmaker and a field general.

Bob Sanders has been granted mystical powers by the masses for something an entire unit should get credit for. Maybe with Sanders back they can run their entire defense, since they don't have to compensate for inept FS play. There's any number of things that Sanders changes for the entire defense. But individually? I am not seeing what is so magnificent. He's a hard hitter, that's for sure.

Could Indy's improved playoff D have alot to do with Sanders? Sure, that's not impossible, it's probably even likely.

Could Indy's improved playoff D be the result of 11 guys stepping it up down the stretch? Sure, that's not impossible, it's probably even likely.

I just think Sanders has ended up alot like Hester - getting alot of individual credit for something that takes 11 guys. Individually, when you look at the Colts, Sanders does very little to stand out, good or bad. Just my observation.

 

[YosemiteSam]

superpunk,

I agree completely, football is a team sport. My point is that some people have a nack for the game. As you hear all the time from college analyst, this guy is a ball hawk and is always around the ball. This is Bob Sanders and this is what made Roy Williams a pro bowler before they figured out he couldn't play coverage very well. I'm not saying he is the best safety in the game (Ed Reed is in my opinion) I'm just saying a single player can make a huge difference at game time. Bob Sanders is that type of player, just like TO is that type of player and LT (Giants) was that type of player. While they can't win it on their own, they can change the tide of a game with their level of play.

 

[joseephuss]

This is either a completely psychotic response, or complete uninformed response of someone talking out of their ***. Did you not pay any attention to the Colts last year? Didn't you hear about terrible their run defense was and how you can't do that and expect to win a SuperBowl? Notice during the period where their defense was horrendous (173 rushing yards per game) Bob Sanders was injured, yet when he returned right as the playoffs started, all the sudden the Colts defense was dominating and only giving up 82 yards per game (which was second best in the playoffs next to the Chargers) Whoops, the Colts won the Superbowl and Bob Sanders was the catalyst. He shaved almost 100 rushing yard per game off their defensive totals. Without the return of Sanders, the Colts would have crashed and burned.

I watched the Colts play last year. Bob Sanders did help their D, but he wasn't special. He was better than his back up. Wow, imagine that. A starter better than his back up. I saw the Colts D-line play better. That was the main reason their run defense got better in the playoffs.

It also helped that they faced KC in the first round. Trent Green was clearly not the same QB he had been the past few seasons. His major concussion still had an impact on him even though he was playing.

Next the Colts faced the Ravens. The Ravens have a very inconsistent offense. Still do.

And then the Colts faced the Patriots and gave up 34 points. That is not great defense.

Then the Colts got to play the Bears in the SB. What can you say about Rex Grossman that has not been said? Thomas Jones had 15 carries for 112 yards.

Bob Sanders is good, but nothing special. I am not uniformed, but I may be psychotic. I watch him play and like him as a player. I played safety in high school. It does not make me an expert, but because of that experience I tend to pay more attention to the safety position than any other on the field. His impact was not as great as the media makes it out to be. There were several factors involved. He does nothing that Roy Williams, Ed Reed, Brian Dawkins or Troy Polamalu cannot do. Those other guys do more than Sanders and are better.

 

[superpunk]

superpunk,

I agree completely, football is a team sport. My point is that some people have a nack for the game. As you hear all the time from college analyst, this guy is a ball hawk and is always around the ball. This is Bob Sanders and this is what made Roy Williams a pro bowler before they figured out he couldn't play coverage very well. I'm not saying he is the best safety in the game (Ed Reed is in my opinion) I'm just saying a single player can make a huge difference at game time. Bob Sanders is that type of player, just like TO is that type of player and LT (Giants) was that type of player. While they can't win it on their own, they can change the tide of a game with their level of play.

That might be true, bro. But at least with Williams, Reed, TO and LT, you can point to something and say - "This is why they're one of the best" (or THE best, in LT's case.) With Sanders, we've got what may be a coincidence that we've decided "Bob Sanders makes the difference."

And absolutely that could be true. I am not sure either way.

I just know that this year, watching their defense (I've only seen two games, I didn't catch the Tennessee game), Keiaho and Bethea will impress you far more than Sanders, so far. Maybe he's more of a catalyst than a playmaker. Roy and Reed - they make plays. They're all fantastic safeties.

 

[Hostile]

He's got a bullseye on him, and I'm not trying to degrade any of these other safeties, either. But noone seems to care about the bad plays those safeties make. If it's brought up, suddenly people "couldn't care less about what Reed or Polamalu do, we want Roy to play like the #8 pick in the draft". All the while ignoring the fact that he is playing like the #8 pick in the draft, and has more of an impact on the game than almost any safety in the league.

All safeties have rough spots. All safeties get beat. All safeties get beat freaquently, that's today's NFL. If Ronnie Lott was out there, he'd get his *** kicked all voer the field.

So what's the difference? Smarts. Being a playmaker. Guys like Reed and Williams and Dawkins put themselves in positions to make big plays, and that helps offset the times that they do actually get beat. And there are very few safeties in the league who make as many plays as those guys, year in and year out. Roy's one of the best, and should be recognized as such, but somehow he still polarizes people who think he should be "Superman" in the flesh. Unrealistic expectations, combined with a critical eye reserved only for Roy Williams, makes for a bad time. I'm thrilled to have the guy on our team, and I guaranteed if you asked every GM in the league to trade their SS for ours straight up, 30 out of 32 GMs would take that in a heartbeat. And yet Randy Galloway espressed shock when his survey of NFL personnel resulted in noone being down on Roy Williams play in the offseason, even though he had arguably his worst finish ever. The guy can't win.



Re: Sanders. I would challenge anyone to watch a few Colts games, and come away more impressed with Sanders than Antoine Bethea. So far, I've seen two, and in every one, Bethea's the guy who keeps getting his name called. Meanwhile, Nick Keiaho makes a great open field tackle on a WR, Sanders flies in late, and the announcers can't stop gushing on the great Bob Sanders. I admit, I've wondered just what it is that he does that is so great.

Totally agree.

Still no one posts the refuting stats. Typical.

 

[zrinkill]

Still no one posts the refuting stats.

Thats very telling

 

[JIGGYFLY]

Totally agree.

Still no one posts the refuting stats. Typical.

It is near impossible to post these stats, explain to me where you can get stats for missed tackles and assignements and any of these other stats that you are asking for.

 

[zrinkill]

It is near impossible to post these stats, explain to me where you can get stats for missed tackles and assignements and any of these other stats that you are asking for.

So you would rather judge Roy on "impossible to measure stats" than the stats that every other player is judged upon?

Wow

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I just looked up these stats to satisfy my own personal curiosity, but figured I might as well post them as I figured some other people might be curious as well.. Let's try our best not to turn this into a Roy love/hate thread (easier said than done)..

Roy Williams
Tackles: 16
INTs: 2
FR: 1
PDef: 4

Ed Reed
Tackles: 5
INTs: 1
FR: 1
PDef: 3

Troy Polamalu
Tackles: 10
INTs: 0
FR: 0
PDef: 3

Sean Taylor
Tackles: 14
INTs: 1
FR: 0
PDef: 3

Brian Dawkins
Tackles: 7
INTs: 0
FR: 0
PDef: 1

Bob Sanders
Tackles: 24
INTs: 0
FR: 0
PDef: 1

Adrian Wilson
Tackles: 27
INTs: 0
FR: 0
PDef: 1

I am pro-Roy... but stats dont tell all.

While he is a good asset for us... he also has the liability factor. If he would wrap up and tackle more then he would be a GREAT asset for us. Right now he is at best a good asset. Roy and only Roy can change that ranking.

 

[Hostile]

It is near impossible to post these stats, explain to me where you can get stats for missed tackles and assignements and any of these other stats that you are asking for.

It seems to me an industrious soul looking to prove a point could figure that out.

No?

 

[Jack-Reacher]

Contrarianism is more boring than predictability.

Seriously. If you're going to dress up like Underdog, take the contrary position in countless debates re: team performance and some of the team's most popular players, poop on stat sheets and then retreat into your own sollipsistic notions of objectivity, then you forfeit the right to scream Democracy, Debate, and Dissent while people lambaste you.

There's such a thing as 'inviting it,' and if you're going to invite it, you can't play the Convincing Martyr when it comes calling because nobody is going to feel sorry for you.

Idgit broke out the dictionary..... LOL I consider myself educated and I had to look up a few of these words.

My hat is off to your excellent and spot on post!!

 

[Hostile]

I am pro-Roy... but stats dont tell all.

While he is a good asset for us... he also has the liability factor. If he would wrap up and tackle more then he would be a GREAT asset for us. Right now he is at best a good asset. Roy and only Roy can change that ranking.

Every player who has ever played the game at any position has a liability factor.

 

[Jack-Reacher]

I am pro-Roy... but stats dont tell all.

While he is a good asset for us... he also has the liability factor. If he would wrap up and tackle more then he would be a GREAT asset for us. Right now he is at best a good asset. Roy and only Roy can change that ranking.

I understand what you are saying here, but you do realize that Roy would be a "GREAT" asset in "your" eyes if he changed that. I think it is pretty clear that the Cowboys organization already considers him a "GREAT" asset.

Just out of curiosity, how long do any of you think Roy would last on the FA market if we cut him? How much more would he make if he had a few teams bidding for his services?

Clearly he makes mistakes, show me one NFL player who doesn't, let alone show me one who is on the field as often as he is who makes no mistakes. With Roy you know what you have, I think Wade has done a remarkable job of getting Roy into position to capitalize on his strengths while playing away from his weaknesses. I think RW is going to have a monster year.

 

[Danny White]

Every player who has ever played the game at any position has a liability factor.

And even the best players miss tackles from time to time too.

I don't understand how people don't get that.

Roy's not perfect, but he's still a great strong safety in this league.

 

[smarta5150]

I love how so many of the zoners on the "other" side of the fence keep mentioning ONE missed tackle.

Yes, I agree, it was pathetic and lead to the Bears only TD (along with a broken play and run my Rex Grossman).

But something has not been mention yet. Earlier in the game Roy was called for his own penalty, the horse collar.

Maybe that flag on him had something to do with his efforts on the tackle?

Sorry if this sounds like 100% BS as an excuse for him but the guy has a penalty coined because of his style of tackling.

Just a thought.

 

[Future]

The problem with Roy, IMO, is that he makes the same mistakes over and over again.

Countless times he hasn't wrapped up and hasn't made the tackle. The horse collar was stupid and he of all people should know better.

 

[proline]

I know how Roy could up his tackles total .....

Missed tackles for a defender are as serious as dropped passes for a receiver. Both are inexcusable, and he deserves the criticism he gets. He brings a lot of other things to the table and makes some plays that nobody else can make, but as good as he is he should not be missing easy tackles, especially due to poor technique.

 

[JohnnyHopkins]

Every player who has ever played the game at any position has a liability factor.

With the exception of Rafael Septien

 

[StanleySpadowski]

I really think that some people's problem with Williams stems from his rookie season. He had arguably the greatest rookie season for a safety in NFL history. He's maintained his play at a consistently great level but some people were expecting it to get even better like most players do as they get into the prime of their careers. That's very hard to do when the initial bar was set so high.

Imagine if Ware never develops into anything more than an 8-12 sack player. Most people would love to have that type of production from an OLB but it that was the case, we'll see sniping about him become more commonplace. He'll get beat in coverage and someone will point to that preseason INT and claim he's lost a step or regressed or some other such nonsense.

If Williams was cut today, 31 teams would put in a waiver claim so fast our heads would spin. And he'd start for whomever claimed him as soon as he was up to speed.

 

[StanleySpadowski]

The problem with Roy, IMO, is that he makes the same mistakes over and over again.

Countless times he hasn't wrapped up and hasn't made the tackle. The horse collar was stupid and he of all people should know better.

The horsecollar was stupid but I can see the thinking behind it. The player was trying to get out of bounds to stop the clock and Williams was doing everything in his power to keep him in bounds. It was a very smart play that suffered from poor execution when he came down on the opponent's leg, triggering the penalty.