***The Second Call/NonCall good/bad conspiracy etc thread***merged**

[CliffnDallas]

The Cowboys need to frame that pic and hang it at Valley Ranch.

 

[Avery]

We're approaching ES levels here.

 

[BlueStar22]

I believe this was taken after the ball hits the ground...

No

 

[percyhoward]

Exactly! His first foot came down at the 4 1/2 yd line and the ball touched the ground at the goal line! That is not a result of falling to the ground that is due to the effort Dez made to advance the ball to try and score! It is ridiculous to argue anything else!

The replay official focused only on "the process of the catch" and ignored the contact by the defender on Dez. If a player catches the ball while under control -- and Dez was essentially vertical, not laying out for the ball -- and gets two feet down, and holds onto the ball after contact with the defender, that's a catch.

The call on the field acknowledged that contact, and it was the right call.

 

[JJHLH1]

One thing has become clear: instant replay is far from infallible. It failed yesterday on two important plays - the Cobb catch that hit the ground but was allowed to stand, and Dez's catch that was overturned. It clearly detracts from the flow of the game. That's acceptable as long as it's always correct, but there are way too many cases where half the people see the replay one way and the other half see it another. I wouldn't mind going back to the old days, knowing full well that neither system is perfect.

 

[maxdallasfan]

At least we weren't on the receiving end of the tuck rule

 

[TheCount]

The rule is that it can touch the ground as long as you have control, so this picture isn't the decisive moment.

The decisive moment is that Dez has to recatch it again on his back, thus he lost control of it.

 

[LandryFan]

"In our judgment, he maintained possession but continued to fall and never had another act common to the game."

That is my whole beef with the reversal..."Our judgement" does not constitute "indisputable evidence", IMO.

 

[cowboys69fan]

Clearly a catch on any given Sunday, Except this Sunday when these Goons Ref'd ! Oh well it will be discussed forever in Cowboys history.

 

[LandryFan]

'Don't put yourselves in a position where a referee's call can cost you the game.' It's good advice. We should expect a team that understands and honors that. To their credit, with the exception of Dez (and I don't blame Dez for it), that's pretty much exactly what we did.
I really hope we don't end up whining half as much as Detroit did after their QB threw a ball into a defenders back last week.

I'm with you on that, Idgit. I have a beef with the mechanics of the reversal as it relates to "indisputable evidence", but there were several other plays in the game that should have made that play a moot one. To me, the most back breaking play was the Murray fumble. Giving up a 46 yard TD on 3rd and 15 would be next. There were just a whole host of plays that had a major bearing on the outcome to be blaming the outcome on the Dez catch/reversal.

 

[blue knights]

The rule is that it can touch the ground as long as you have control, so this picture isn't the decisive moment.

The decisive moment is that Dez has to recatch it again on his back, thus he lost control of it.

unfortunately if he hadn't tried to go for the t.d. and just cradled it with both hands, it would have abeen a catch. i also saw someone saying after he inititally caught the ball his steps stumbling to the ground wasnt running therefor not a football move. thats debatable .

 

[YosemiteSam]

This image was taking right after the ball impacted the ground.

Now answer me this. Why in hell are you still arguing this? The game is over and the Cowboys are out of the playoffs. The NFL will review the play and make any necessary changes for next year. Odds are extremely high that the review was correct and there was no catch and nothing will happen.

Either way, the game and the Cowboys season is over. Let it go. Start focusing on the draft.

 

[SultanOfSix]

This image was taking right after the ball impacted the ground.

There is nothing conclusive that the ball hit the ground from any viewing angle. Just because the ball shifts doesn't mean it hit the ground. A hand or forearm could be under it, or the ball could be shifting between the shoulder pads and those body parts.

 

[YosemiteSam]

There is nothing conclusive that the ball hit the ground from any viewing angle. Just because the ball shifts doesn't mean it hit the ground. A hand or forearm could be under it, or the ball could be shifting between the shoulder pads and those body parts.

I've seen the video where it did hit the ground.

 

[SultanOfSix]

I've seen the video where it did hit the ground.

Yeah, after he caught it, is tackled, elbow hits the ground, called down by contact, and reaches out with the ball to the goal line.

 

[hairic]

I'm in the camp if all that happened prior isn't catch/control/move, then this is a TD.

Ball hits the ground while Dez controls it (thumb doesn't move, nor do his other fingers), rolls off the ground in his grasp/on top of his hand, and contact with his helmet/shoulder pads cause it to roll out of his hand. It would still be live until he finishes control in the endzone, touchdown.

It's about frame 5-7 in the first one, 15 in the second, and frame 4 in the last one where it's off the ground with control.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Someone please answer this question for me:

IF we assume the ball touched the ground secured by Dez' hand and arm and does not bobble out until AFTER the ball is off the ground and while it is back up off the ground would the Calvin Johnson rule still apply or is it considered a juggling catch just like the Terrell Suggs int against Pittsburgh?

I have yet to see the ball come loose while contacting the ground. It only comes loose after Dez arm and hand come off the ground. If someone has evidence that is wrong I would appreciate seeing it. Thanks.

 

[khiladi]

Even with the catch, I'm not convinced we win. But it was a spectacular play, and one that goes down in the annals as one of the best Cowboy playoff plays of all-time. Except now it doesn't even exist. For that, I feel completely robbed.

No, we would have won. Green Back got a first down on a tripped ball on a third and long that just happened to be caught. Otherwise, the defense stopped them. Plus, Green Bay would have lost a time out and playing to try and at least tie. Dallas could have also burned close to a minute and a half from the goal line. If they got stopped once, they can take time and run it in again.

If Green Bay scored a field goal quickly, we would still have time to march up the field and score, because the GB defense wasn't stopping our offense.

 

[ufcrules1]

'Don't put yourselves in a position where a referee's call can cost you the game.' It's good advice. We should expect a team that understands and honors that. To their credit, with the exception of Dez (and I don't blame Dez for it), that's pretty much exactly what we did.
I really hope we don't end up whining half as much as Detroit did after their QB threw a ball into a defenders back last week.

This is a great post. We easily could have won that game if we would have just put them away and we had our chances. Never ever leave it up to the refs. I really do feel like the better team lost out there and that is because we beat ourselves. If the NFL is going to keep making these ridiculous rules then on plays like that, I would coach my players to just secure the ball with both hands and go down making the catch and leaving zero doubt. Only way to go for it is if it is x and goal, or no time left. Neither was the case on the Dez catch.

 

[khiladi]

I don't know why people keep talking about CJ. CJ when the ball touched the ground, his hand was ON TOP, him grasping it. Dez's whole forearm was grasping the ball, lying between it and the ground, i.e. it was under the ball.

It's simply wrong to even compare the two on those grounds alone.