The very reason I can't sleep either - LaTunaNostra

50cent

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LaTunaNostra;1122601 said:
Dang, and I thought from the thread title, it was me costing you sleepless nights.:)



Ok, that was the passage that most struck me too.



But I couldn't tell from the paragraph what the nature of the problem is..in fact, the writer terms it "impervious" to strategy, and hence to analysis, meaning even Bill can't put his finger on the root of it.

I didn't interpret it tho, as a lack of physical toughness as much as a lack of resistance to the pressure that comes about when one thing goes wrong, then another. It brought to mind Hemingway's classic definition of courage as 'grace under pressure'..which signifies a mental control more than a physical command.

It isn't from being mandhandled that the team stops processing events clearly..it sounds like a form of panic that feeds itself from self-doubt and lack of total understanding of what to do next.

If I am closer to 'it' than you are, that puts an even greater onus on Bill and his coaching staff

I really don't think being a 'nice guy' is the source of this phenomenon. Granted, I've never played football. But the thing read to me like the 'collapse' is the kind of mental reaction that can only be rectified with success built upon success upon further success. Bill once said (in 03) that no team can suffer losing for long before it starts to 'quit'. My guess is this team hasn't had a deep enough taste of winning to be able to handle the pressure of things going wrong.
I agree with you to a certain degree. Although, when i mention tough, i'm speaking physically and mentally. I may not have posted mentally, but to me it goes hand in hand. I'll go back too boxing, which i love too. I respect boxers because it takes a certain mentality to get in there knowing another man is trying to knock your head off. Although, I've seen guys come out of prison and get in boxing ring and take a dive, because they didn't want to get hit. The GAme Quitter is a perfect term. Every football player is tough to a certain degree, but some are tougher than others, ala Brandon Lloyd. HE wants no part of the physical part of the game, but he knows it will happen regardless. The fact that he used the word collapsed really surprised me.
 

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btw, soft teams lay down, I didn't see us laying down on Monday Night despite being behind a bunch
 

50cent

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LaTunaNostra;1122604 said:
Come on summer.

He's trying as a fan to get to the root of something that the head coach is also striving to understand.

I don't see why he should be ridiculed for bringing up the issue again when it clearly is THE factor that worries Bill the most.
No need to defend me, LA. Internet tough guys are like keep my cred to people i don't know, USELESS!
 

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summerisfunner;1122617 said:
but when you push it and push it, it becomes one
How so? Is he trying to replace Roy on the roster? Is he looking for some kind of financial gain through it? Can I claim that you have some kind of John Lennon agenda simply because you have a picture of him in your sig?
 

50cent

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summerisfunner;1122619 said:
btw, soft teams lay down, I didn't see us laying down on Monday Night despite being behind a bunch
Well go back to the last game of last year, Mr. Agenda. I saw a team that quit before the game started. Yeah, I know your comeback will be, "The game didn't matter!" But it still had to be played. Game Quitters!
 

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dmq;1122613 said:
Good post. I believe it too.Looking at Parcells face on the sideline, he believes it. I almost think we need a couple criminals in this lineup. At least guys on the edge. Why you are getting bashed, I have no idea. Its not like you are a guy who has an agenda or something other than stating the facts from what I have read from you. I am hoping Romo might do something to put some energy in this team. A confident charismatic QB can have that effect on a team. I am hoping anyway.
Summers agenda doesn't bother me. If BP can see what I'm talking about, it all good. I had this concern last year and posted it then. I posted it again earlier this season. Now to see BP has the same thoughts, now I somehow have an agenda. Go figure.
 

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jem88;1122621 said:

I told you why already

jem88 said:
Can I claim that you have some kind of John Lennon agenda simply because you have a picture of him in your sig?

yeah, go ahead :rolleyes:

but using that little analogy, let's say we were in a discussion of bands, and I was to go into every thread proclaiming that the Beatles were the greatest band ever, and would start threads about it, wouldn't you say that I had an agenda? maybe what I'm accusing him of, and my example isn't the exact definition of an agenda, but in forum-speak, it's close enough

honestly I don't know what 50cent's motive is, all I know is that it's getting pretty annoying, and that he has no veritable proof that the whole of our team is soft, just bits and pieces, and some, calling Roy soft, don't even make sense
 

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summerisfunner;1122629 said:
I told you why already



yeah, go ahead :rolleyes:

but using that little analogy, let's say we were in a discussion of bands, and I was to go into every thread proclaiming that the Beatles were the greatest band ever, and would start threads about it, wouldn't you say that I had an agenda? maybe what I'm accusing him of, and my example isn't the exact definition of an agenda, but in forum-speak, it's close enough

honestly I don't know what 50cent's motive is, all I know is that it's getting pretty annoying, and that he has no veritable proof that the whole of our team is soft, just bits and pieces, and some, calling Roy soft, don't even make sense
Dude, you lost. People see my point. Thanks for the bumps too!
 

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50cent;1122622 said:
Well go back to the last game of last year, Mr. Agenda.

are you like 10 or something? using what I say against me? you don't know what is going through player's heads, esp. 48 of them
 

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summerisfunner;1122631 said:
are you like 10 or something? using what I say against me? you don't know what is going through player's heads, esp. 48 of them
It completely amazes me how someone can debate with another person and not expect them to use the other person words against them. We wouldn't be having a debate if we agreed. It too amazes me how you can pick Roy outta a list of about 15-20 players I listed and just run with him. By the way, thanks again for the bump.
 

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50cent;1122634 said:
It completely amazes me how someone can debate with another person and not expect them to use the other person words against them.

I wasn't arguing credibility or agenda, little buddy, yet when I say it, you use it against me like a child

just your ridiculous notion that can't be proven, but if you think you're the only person on the face of this Earth who can measure an intangible, such as the emotion of 48 individuals, then more power to you
 

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summerisfunner;1122637 said:
I wasn't arguing credibility or agenda, little buddy, yet when I say it, you use it against me like a child

just your ridiculous notion that can't be proven, but if you think you're the only person on the face of this Earth who can measure an intangible such, as the emotion of 48 individuals, then more power to you
Well maybe BP and I have an uncanny knack for observing human behavior, because I noticed it last season. He says his team collapsed after the Jags punched back. The reporter points out about the Game Quitter reference from BP. He then refered to something that keeps him up at night with a story about two boxers. The story is about one boxer quitting and one going on while under the circumstances, Then,.......just read the article genius.
 

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50cent;1122640 said:
Well maybe BP and I have an uncanny knack for observing human behavior

:lmao2: but BP interacts w/ them up-close on a day-to-day basis, you watch them on your 17" inch TV screen, no comparison, you're a joke

edit: I read the article, still doesn't show where BP is saying his team is full of softies, but of course, you must have an uncanny ability to read between lines too :lmao:
 

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summerisfunner;1122641 said:
:lmao2: but BP interacts w/ them up-close on a day-to-day basis, you watch them on your 17" inch TV screen, no comparison, you're a joke
Here it is for you to read. Maybe the fact that I have coached Div. I basketball and professional basketball for half my life, kinda like BP, makes me pretty good judge of human behavior outside of my 17" TV. I guess the jokes on you!

What has him troubled — what has him waking up choking on his bile — isn’t what you might expect. It’s not concern that the Commanders’ coaching staff could spring something on the Cowboys for which they are entirely unprepared. And it’s not his team’s raw ability. It’s a thing that’s harder to put into words, and impervious to strategy. Even as he is trying to study his next opponent, he can’t shake what happened on Sunday. How his team, the moment the Jaguars pushed back, collapsed. How, the moment the players felt the pressure, they began to commit penalties and the sort of small but critical mental errors that only a coach watching video can perceive. In their performance he smells the sort of failure he defines himself against.
At the back of Parcells’s personal binder there are a few loose, well-thumbed sheets that defy categorization: a copy of a speech by Douglas MacArthur; a passage from a book about coaches, which argues that a coach excels by purifying his particular vision rather than emulating a type. Among the papers is an anecdote Parcells brings up often in conversation, about a boxing match that took place nearly 30 years ago between the middleweights Vito Antuofermo and Cyclone Hart. Parcells loves boxing; his idea of a perfect day in the off-season is to spend it inside some ratty boxing gym in North Jersey. “It’s a laboratory,” he says. “You get a real feel for human behavior under the strongest duress — under the threat of physical harm.” In this laboratory he has identified a phenomenon he calls the game quitter. Game quitters, he says, seem “as if they are trying to win, but really they’ve given up. They’ve just chosen a way out that’s not apparent to the naked eye. They are more concerned with public opinion than the end result.”

Parcells didn’t see the Hart-Antuofermo fight in person but was told about it, years ago, by a friend and boxing trainer, Teddy Atlas. It stuck in his mind and now strikes him as relevant. Seated, at first, he begins to read aloud from the pages: how in this fight 29 years ago Hart was a well-known big puncher heavily favored against the unknown Vito Antuofermo, how Hart knocked Antuofermo all over the ring, how Antuofermo had no apparent physical gifts except “he bled well.” “But,” Parcells reads, “he had other attributes you couldn’t see.” Antuofermo absorbed the punishment dealt out by his natural superior, and he did it so well that Hart became discouraged. In the fifth round, Hart began to tire, not physically but mentally. Seizing on the moment, Antuofermo attacked and delivered a series of quick blows that knocked Hart down, ending the fight.

The Commanders video is still frozen on the screen behind Parcells. He is no longer sitting but is now on his feet. “This is the interesting part,” he says, then reads:
“When the fighters went back to their makeshift locker rooms, only a thin curtain was between them. Hart’s room was quiet, but on the other side he could hear Antuofermo’s cornermen talking about who would take the fighter to the hospital. Finally he heard Antuofermo say, ‘Every time he hit me with that left hook to the body, I was sure I was going to quit. After the second round, I thought if he hit me there again, I’d quit. I thought the same thing after the fourth round. Then he didn’t hit me no more.’

“At that moment, Hart began to weep. It was really soft at first. Then harder. He was crying because for the first time he understood that Antuofermo had felt the same way he had and worse. The only thing that separated the guy talking from the guy crying was what they had done. The coward and the hero feel the same emotions. They’re both human.”

When Parcells finishes, he says: “This is the story of our last game. We were Cyclone Hart.”
 

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summerisfunner;1122629 said:
let's say we were in a discussion of bands, and I was to go into every thread proclaiming that the Beatles were the greatest band ever, and would start threads about it, wouldn't you say that I had an agenda?
No, but one might say that you were being annoying (although with regards to your example, I'd agree with you regarding The Beatles, so there probably would be no debate.)

Perhaps 50Cent is being annoyingly persistent (can't say whether this is true as I haven't noticed any persistent theme in his threads) but he doesn't come across as having an agenda. I get sick of buzz words like that, especially when they're not used properly.
 

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summerisfunner;1122641 said:
:lmao2: but BP interacts w/ them up-close on a day-to-day basis, you watch them on your 17" inch TV screen, no comparison, you're a joke

edit: I read the article, still doesn't show where BP is saying his team is full of softies, but of course, you must have an uncanny ability to read between lines too :lmao:
Try looking at the last line of my last post, where BP says, "We were Cyclone Hart." Hart would be the "game quitter" in the equation.
 

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jem88;1122647 said:
(can't say whether this is true as I haven't noticed any persistent theme in his threads)

he just said in this thread that he has been saying we've been soft for a year
 

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Can someone explain to me the Tony Romo/moxy thing? I feel like I'm missing something.
 
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