The Walking Dead-Season 8, Episodes 1-8

[Stash]

Usually signifies “the end” or the end is near.
It’s funny... it applies to many shows AFTER Happy Days.... not so much happy days.

I've never taken it to me what you're saying.

This is always the definition I've known:

Jumping the Shark is the moment when an established long-running series changes in a significant manner in an attempt to stay fresh. Ironically, that moment makes the viewers realize that the show's finally run out of ideas. It's reached its peak, it'll never be the same again, and from now on it's all downhill.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JumpingTheShark

 

[Stash]

I gotta take the TV version of the Governor also.

While the Negan-arc is longer, I feel we got more of the Governor. In addition for me the character was more developed and displayed a wider degree of emotions and actions. The Negan character has been pretty much the same from the start and we've not seen much variety out of the character. Hopefully we'll get a little more soon as his power on the show starts to decline.

I completely agree. I have no knowledge of the graphic novel versions, so I don't have an opinion on that, but as far as TV versions go, I found the Governor a great character and Negan a copy.

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

I've never taken it to me what you're saying.

This is always the definition I've known:

Jumping the Shark is the moment when an established long-running series changes in a significant manner in an attempt to stay fresh. Ironically, that moment makes the viewers realize that the show's finally run out of ideas. It's reached its peak, it'll never be the same again, and from now on it's all downhill.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JumpingTheShark

Yah... he clearly ran out of ideas.... over 100, ONE HUNDRED episodes after the “shark” episode,




He went on to add that the show ran for 164 more episodes after “Hollywood: Part 3” (which was Happy Days’ 91st), and that it remained in the Top 25 for five of its six remaining seasons. In two of those, seasons five and six, it finished the year in Nielsen’s Top 5.

https://tv.avclub.com/in-the-three-part-hollywood-happy-days-literally-jum-1798283333


1. The episode, which was part of a three-episode arc set in Hollywood, aired on Sept. 20, 1977.

2. It ranked No. 3 for the week and garnered a 50-plus share (which would be unheard of today), an audience of more than 30 million viewers.

3. The phrase "jump the shark" was inspired by a scene in which Fonzie (Henry Winkler) water-skied over a shark.

4. In real life Winkler was an avid water-skier. (He had actually been an instructor.) His father suggested that his son's skills be used in a "Happy Days" episode.

5. "Happy Days" really didn't jump the shark after this episode aired. The show remained on the air for six more seasons (164 more episodes) and ranked in the Nielsen top 25 for five of those six seasons.



Which brings us to the question: Was the "Hollywood 3" episode of "Happy Days" deserving of its fate?

No, it wasn't. All successful shows eventually start to decline, but this was not "Happy Days'" time. Consider: It was the 91st episode and the fifth season. If this was really the beginning of a downward spiral, why did the show stay on the air for six more seasons and shoot an additional 164 episodes? Why did we rank among the Top 25 in five of those six seasons?

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/03/entertainment/la-et-jump-the-shark-20100903


According to pop culture and following the followers = you are right!

But in reality you are incorrect.


In summary: Happy Days is an American television sitcom that aired first-run from January 15, 1974, to September 24, 1984 on ABC, with a total of 255 half-hour episodes spanning eleven seasons.

By today’s standard, average season is what? 12 episodes?

Happy days would have run 20 seasons in full.
164 after shark = would have run almost 14 more seasons .... meaning 6 seasons before shark and more than double the amount after.

But you go with the catch phrase. I’m good.

There are many things in history that are portrayed incorrectly and people run with it!


PS. Also, Fonzie's attempted motorcycle stunt is based loosely on the Evel Knievel phenomenon from the 1970s.

 

[DallasEast]

I completely agree. I have no knowledge of the graphic novel versions, so I don't have an opinion on that, but as far as TV versions go, I found the Governor a great character and Negan a copy.

You said it best. Opinions do vary. I have never read the graphic novel or anything connected to the story in print but for me, Negan is more pathologically sinister than The Govenor—whom I thought had anger issues driving his character mostly.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Opinions vary I guess. Governor all the way for me.

Don't get me wrong I loved the way he was played by the actor. He made up for the fact that they heavily watered him down from the comic. In the comic I absolutely loathed that guy....he was just disgusting. Still wasn't as bad, overall, as Negan but there were ways that he was much worse than Negan for sure.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Agreed on the too many character thing. The "bottle" episodes have more often than not bogged the show down.

I remember how many gripes there were about season 2 on Hershel's farm but today I think very highly of season 2 because the characters were fleshed out so well. Even during the prison episodes they (writers/producers) did a decent job of giving depth to the characters... But since they left the prison, we've had a constant stream of characters coming & going without much thought about any of them. Eric's death in the graphic novel was far more meaningful than what we saw on screen, even with Aaron's faked tears.

Getting rid of Glenn didn't bother me... I think his character ran out of juice. Very sorry to see Abraham go. Thought his character was short-changed. Same with Tyrese.

Also would have like to have gotten more of the Terminus story.

Excellent points.

Glenn I loved because they kept it with the comic. The first time they've kept the same character, dying the same way. I liked that.

Abraham I was initially very displeased with his death in the show. The reason being I felt they killed him off far too soon in the comic. And Kirkman had said many times that he regretted doing that in the comic. That he too felt he killed him off way to soon. So when he didn't die in the show, the way he died in the comic (Denise took that honor) I thought that the show was going to do the character justice and keep him around a long time. I was looking forward to his part in the war with the Saviors....only for them to basically just kill him 2 episodes later. UGH!!!

But afterwards, after seeing how he went out like a badass (IMO opinion at least) I was totally okay with it because I felt it was true to the kind of person Abraham was.

Eric's death in the show was just...nothing. Didn't really care much about the character (Which is understandable they just don't have the time to make you feel something for every single character, nor should they try as I've said before) but it just seemed very thrown in there as an after thought.

Plus it's kind of weird the way that you don't really see him, up close, dead as a zombie the way you normally do with this show. It was obvious it was supposed to be Eric walking off as a zombie but at the same time it was just like...why leave it with such a weird shot? I don't know. Probably nitpicking on my part at that point.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I gotta take the TV version of the Governor also.

While the Negan-arc is longer, I feel we got more of the Governor. In addition for me the character was more developed and displayed a wider degree of emotions and actions. The Negan character has been pretty much the same from the start and we've not seen much variety out of the character. Hopefully we'll get a little more soon as his power on the show starts to decline.

I think the back story and where this likely ends up is what ultimately makes the Negan character (at least for my money) a much better character in the graphic novel.

I don't know how true to that the show will stay but if they do I think this is a much stronger character overall. I've loved his scenes in the show (I know a great many have not) but I feel like who he is, and what he's about, has been lost a bit with the show because they have him out of the show for such long stretches of time.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I've never taken it to me what you're saying.

This is always the definition I've known:

Jumping the Shark is the moment when an established long-running series changes in a significant manner in an attempt to stay fresh. Ironically, that moment makes the viewers realize that the show's finally run out of ideas. It's reached its peak, it'll never be the same again, and from now on it's all downhill.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JumpingTheShark

Thank you for that. Honestly I have never known what exactly Jumping The Shark was supposed to mean when people would say it. lol

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I completely agree. I have no knowledge of the graphic novel versions, so I don't have an opinion on that, but as far as TV versions go, I found the Governor a great character and Negan a copy.

If the TV show could have done the Governor more closely to his comic character you would definitely see that he and Negan are not alike. The Governor does things that Negan himself detests and kills people for. Negan would honestly hate the Governor and would kill him, without hesitation.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

You said it best. Opinions do vary. I have never read the graphic novel or anything connected to the story in print but for me, Negan is more pathologically sinister than The Govenor—whom I thought had anger issues driving his character mostly.

Pretty good description, to me, of how they're portrayed on TV. Although I don't think Negan is really sinister but I have to admit that being a fan of both forms, and being completely caught up on both, I see more of the Negan character overall. Assuming the show follows the print to any large degree, of course.

 

[Stash]

If the TV show could have done the Governor more closely to his comic character you would definitely see that he and Negan are not alike. The Governor does things that Negan himself detests and kills people for. Negan would honestly hate the Governor and would kill him, without hesitation.

Not with that stupid baseball bat, he wouldn't!

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Not with that stupid baseball bat, he wouldn't!

lol. Maybe not the bat in that particular instance.

 

[Nightman]

Yah... he clearly ran out of ideas.... over 100, ONE HUNDRED episodes after the “shark” episode,




He went on to add that the show ran for 164 more episodes after “Hollywood: Part 3” (which was Happy Days’ 91st), and that it remained in the Top 25 for five of its six remaining seasons. In two of those, seasons five and six, it finished the year in Nielsen’s Top 5.

https://tv.avclub.com/in-the-three-part-hollywood-happy-days-literally-jum-1798283333


1. The episode, which was part of a three-episode arc set in Hollywood, aired on Sept. 20, 1977.

2. It ranked No. 3 for the week and garnered a 50-plus share (which would be unheard of today), an audience of more than 30 million viewers.

3. The phrase "jump the shark" was inspired by a scene in which Fonzie (Henry Winkler) water-skied over a shark.

4. In real life Winkler was an avid water-skier. (He had actually been an instructor.) His father suggested that his son's skills be used in a "Happy Days" episode.

5. "Happy Days" really didn't jump the shark after this episode aired. The show remained on the air for six more seasons (164 more episodes) and ranked in the Nielsen top 25 for five of those six seasons.



Which brings us to the question: Was the "Hollywood 3" episode of "Happy Days" deserving of its fate?

No, it wasn't. All successful shows eventually start to decline, but this was not "Happy Days'" time. Consider: It was the 91st episode and the fifth season. If this was really the beginning of a downward spiral, why did the show stay on the air for six more seasons and shoot an additional 164 episodes? Why did we rank among the Top 25 in five of those six seasons?

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep/03/entertainment/la-et-jump-the-shark-20100903


According to pop culture and following the followers = you are right!

But in reality you are incorrect.


In summary: Happy Days is an American television sitcom that aired first-run from January 15, 1974, to September 24, 1984 on ABC, with a total of 255 half-hour episodes spanning eleven seasons.

By today’s standard, average season is what? 12 episodes?

Happy days would have run 20 seasons in full.
164 after shark = would have run almost 14 more seasons .... meaning 6 seasons before shark and more than double the amount after.

But you go with the catch phrase. I’m good.

There are many things in history that are portrayed incorrectly and people run with it!


PS. Also, Fonzie's attempted motorcycle stunt is based loosely on the Evel Knievel phenomenon from the 1970s.

Jumping the Shark is completely apropos in the case of Happy Days

It was never as good even though it ran for many more years

It relied on stunts, new characters and lack of competition to remain viable

For me on TWD it was the Hospital or the Tank attack

Others like the Harlem Globetrotters on Gilligan's Island
or Laverne and Shirley moving to LA
or Cousin Oliver on Brady Bunch
or Sam on Different Strokes
or Bobby's dream/death on Dallas
or post Michael Office or the Wedding
or Woody/Kelly on Cheers
or Rosanne winning the lottery
or Andy Keaton on Family Ties
not sure if Seinfeld ever jumped but Kruger/Angry George got repetitive


and yes I watched/watch entirely too much TV
or

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Jumping the Shark is completely apropos in the case of Happy Days

It was never as good even though it ran for many more years

It relied on stunts, new characters and lack of competition to remain viable

For me on TWD it was the Hospital or the Tank attack

Others like the Harlem Globetrotters on Gilligan's Island
or Laverne and Shirley moving to LA
or Cousin Oliver on Brady Bunch
or Sam on Different Strokes
or Bobby's dream/death on Dallas
or post Michael Office or the Wedding
or Woody/Kelly on Cheers
or Rosanne winning the lottery
or Andy Keaton on Family Ties
not sure if Seinfeld ever jumped but Kruger/Angry George got repetitive


and yes I watched/watch entirely too much TV
or

Agreed on most of those.

Also agree "Happy Days" did go down hill after the shark-jump.

Cousin Oliver... Had such a punchable face.

Shows that move the family from one place to another like "Laverne & Shirley", "I Love Lucy" (to Connecticut) and "My Three Sons" (to California) always go down hill... Some kind of TV law I guess.

You forgot to add that little bastid Scrappy Doo to the list... He totally ***** up "The Scoobie Doo Show".

 

[Kevinicus]

I moved the "Shark Jump" episode a few forward to the Terminus episode where the group escapes (episode 52, premier episode of season 5). Only because I thought two of the best episodes of the series occurred during the escape from the prison on the way to Terminus ("Still", the episode with Daryl and Beth, and "The Grove" with Tyrese, Carol the two girls and baby Judith).

The "Terminus" escape was eye-rolling and then we follow up with the cannibals chasing the group and then the big-mis "Hospital" arc.

Still is one of the worst episodes of the series IMO.

 

[CF74]

It is safe saying the season seven premiere, The Day Will Come When You Won't Be, was one of, if not, the most anticipated episode of the series but was it 'unquestionably the best episode in the series history'? I disagree. A quick Google search demonstrates opinions vary on the topic. Here are a few rankings of episodes others thought were the best of the series:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/walking-dead-ranking-99-episodes-170633600.html
'The Walking Dead': Ranking All 99 Episodes
#1 The Grove, Season 4, Episode 14
#21 The Day Will Come When You Won't Be, Season 7, Episode 1

https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertai...des-that-may-change-your-life.html/?a=viewall
‘The Walking Dead’: 10 Episodes That May Change Your Life
#1 Days Gone By, Season 1, Episode 1
(The Day Will Come When You Won't Be not ranked)

http://whatculture.com/tv/the-walking-dead-10-best-episodes?page=10
The Walking Dead: 10 Best Episodes
#1 Pretty Much Dead Already, Season 2, Episode 8
(The Day Will Come When You Won't Be not ranked)

http://variety.com/gallery/walking-dead-best-episodes-rick-negan-glenn/#!13/days-gone-bye
‘The Walking Dead’s’ 12 Best Episodes
#1 Days Gone By, Season 1, Episode 1
#11 The Day Will Come When You Won't Be, Season 7, Episode 1

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/walking-dead-season-ranked-1048556/item/twd-seasons-7-1048549
'The Walking Dead': Every Season, Ranked
#1 No Sanctuary, Season 5, Episode 1
(The Day Will Come When You Won't Be, Season 7, Episode 1 not ranked in top 10 / best episode of season 7 considered as Rock In The Road, Episode 9)

Personally, The Grove and Clear (Season 3, Episode 12) are among two of my favorite episodes that I would put above season seven's premiere.

Look at the flowers

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Jumping the Shark is completely apropos in the case of Happy Days

It was never as good even though it ran for many more years

It relied on stunts, new characters and lack of competition to remain viable

For me on TWD it was the Hospital or the Tank attack

Others like the Harlem Globetrotters on Gilligan's Island
or Laverne and Shirley moving to LA
or Cousin Oliver on Brady Bunch
or Sam on Different Strokes
or Bobby's dream/death on Dallas
or post Michael Office or the Wedding
or Woody/Kelly on Cheers
or Rosanne winning the lottery
or Andy Keaton on Family Ties
not sure if Seinfeld ever jumped but Kruger/Angry George got repetitive


and yes I watched/watch entirely too much TV
or

Agreed on most of those.

Also agree "Happy Days" did go down hill after the shark-jump.

Cousin Oliver... Had such a punchable face.

Shows that move the family from one place to another like "Laverne & Shirley", "I Love Lucy" (to Connecticut) and "My Three Sons" (to California) always go down hill... Some kind of TV law I guess.

You forgot to add that little bastid Scrappy Doo to the list... He totally ***** up "The Scoobie Doo Show".

I’m going to take the MANY facts in evidence over opinions.

 

[Kevinicus]

I’m going to take the MANY facts in evidence over opinions.

Jumping the shark is subjective, so it's opinion based, not fact based.

Having a bunch of episodes after a jump is not really relevant. Nor are good ratings. It's about the quality of the show, not the popularity.

 

[Nightman]

I’m going to take the MANY facts in evidence over opinions.

You are on an island on this one......possibly Fantasy Island.......de Plane de Plane boss

Jumping the Shark was one of the most aptly named theories in entertainment......right there with 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon

 

[Nightman]

Jumping the shark is subjective, so it's opinion based, not fact based.

Having a bunch of episodes after a jump is not rrally relevant.

Exactly.....That is the whole point........it is the moment when the fans know the show will never be as good again.......not that it is the end of the show

The new Arnold, too much Joanie and Chaci, Richie leaving, Mork...... it was never the same