This Season has NOT been a success

[iceberg]

And how many Superbowls have Indy and the Giants won in recent years. Isn't it Superbowl or bust around here? So far Indy has been a bust.

No, the first thing Belichick did when he took over the Patriots was certainly not get a young QB to build his team around. He waited until the 5th round to draft a QB. He put his priority on rebuilding the lines, drafting OL and DL early in his first two drafts. Klemm, Randall, Light, Seymore. After a 5-11 season, he then went out and signed a bunch of band-aid veterans.

i'll try not to say "around here" and loop you in with "generic board arguments" if you do the same for me, ok?

the point is they're both very competitive teams - period. indy a bust?

heh, i'd love to be that competitive year in and year out. hell, we ALMOST make the playoffs so we can call indy a bust.

sigh, ok. if you're not gonna be logical i'll just talk elsewhere, ok? you can either focus on what *I* say and respond in kind or just cut it out. i'm not here to defend generic crap on either side so please don't assume my stance and tear into me based on YOUR assumption.

now, *I* said i want to be competitive year in and year out - we ain't doing that yet are we?

 

[wileedog]

i only said if drew COULD he'd likely have done it by now, wouldn't he? instead he was replaced by your "lucky shot" and that "lucky shot" did it, didn't he?

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Payton has been in the league 8 years. If he COULD win a Superbowl shouldn't he have done it by now?

Dan Marino was in the league for how many years and never won? Are you telling me that no team would have ever have been capable of winning a SB with Dan Marino?

again, find me some fans who wouldn't want payton but keep drew. i'll be over here waiting.

Again, reading comprehension is your friend. I'm not comparing Drew and Manning. I'm saying your argument is a complete fallacy.

 

[superpunk]

oh good god - the OL has been our baine all year long. sure the "jury is still out" and maybe somtimes they can put a good game on the field.

that's NOT consistant, is it? and when you're on a short timetable, you don't have a lot of luxury time for "jury watching".

Is the end of the world near? What is this short timetable? The team's going in the right direction. The Oline was fine before Flozell went down. Some of those guys haven't gotten a chance, and Pettiti's a sixth round rookie. Who knows how he'll mature in the offseason?

 

[InmanRoshi]

You forgot to mention what else Belichick stripped down. The QB position. Went with his own guy, a guy they drafted, Tom Brady.

Wow, talk about revisionist history.

 

[Sarge]

Is the end of the world near? What is this short timetable? The team's going in the right direction. The Oline was fine before Flozell went down. Some of those guys haven't gotten a chance, and Pettiti's a sixth round rookie. Who knows how he'll mature in the offseason?

I can say with certainty Al Johnson isn't the answer at C, good game last week or not.

 

[superpunk]

Wow, talk about revisionist history.

I can't stand this notion that it was BB's master plan to bring Tom Brady in to lead them to the super bowl. GD pesky facts.

 

[rcaldw]

If you like the Pats so much, why don't you marry them? LOL. jk

Are you seriously gonna sit there, with a straight face, and try to tell me that having a sixth round draft pick, step into a game ONLY BECAUSE OF INJURY, and play amazingly well isn't luck? Hell, Tom Brady's career started as a "patch." Bellichick did not "go with his guy." He had to start Tom, because Bledsoe went down. To paint that scenario as some sort of grand master plan by BB is just revisionist history.

No, I'm not saying it was a grand master plan. But I'll tell you this. If Bellichek was sold on Drew Bledsoe, Tom Brady would have never stayed on the field. Brady didn't light the league on fire at the first, he just played steady football. So from that standpoint, he knew it was something that had to be addressed.

I'm saying it is something that has to be addressed. Playing VT at the end of last season was just plain stubborn stupid and there is no other face to put it on it.

Someone that stubborn and that stupid I don't trust with my team's future. Sorry.

 

[iceberg]

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Payton has been in the league 8 years. If he COULD win a Superbowl shouldn't he have done it by now?

Dan Marino was in the league for how many years and never won? Are you telling me that no team would have ever have been capable of winning a SB with Dan Marino?



Again, reading comprehension is your friend. I'm not comparing Drew and Manning. I'm saying your argument is a complete fallacy.

we gonna dive into sarcasm now?

lemme know. i'm pretty damned good at it.

 

[Cowboy Junkie]

I disagree and those who do not see how close this team is to being a consistant playoff team must not being paying attention.....
most at the begining of this season would have been estatic for a 10-6 record and most said no playoffs and that next year was our year.

Now all of a suuden things are coming together , but now that there is some light at the end , some want to sprint to it .
Reminds me of the children on a 8 hour car trip to Disney ... first 7 hour are fine , but that last hour ?????

 

[rcaldw]

Wow, talk about revisionist history.

Not revisitionist history at all. He had the opportunity to reinstate Bledsoe. In fact, he had a GOLDEN opportunity when Bledsoe led with a heroic effort that got them INTO the Super Bowl that year, and I hate to tell you, but they weren't going to win that AFC Championship game with Brady that day.

So why didn't he go back to Bledsoe? How old was Bledsoe then? 30? Still very young by Parcell's standards.

Tell me, why didn't he go back to Bledsoe?

 

[superpunk]

I can say with certainty Al Johnson isn't the answer at C, good game last week or not.

I hardly think he is, either. I would love for us to pursue a C in the offseason, and if Pettiti looks shaky, a RT. It's not the end of the world that we don't have those things RIGHT NOW, though.

^^^^^^That was TOTALLY built in a day.

 

[iceberg]

Is the end of the world near? What is this short timetable? The team's going in the right direction. The Oline was fine before Flozell went down. Some of those guys haven't gotten a chance, and Pettiti's a sixth round rookie. Who knows how he'll mature in the offseason?

let's say parcells retires - it could happen, like it or not. again, i'm not advocating any stance here, just assuming he may.

we still in good shape? we still got a "plan"?

i'm sorry my disagreements with parcells methods piss people off, but i do disagree. you can be as pompom happy as you wanna be but he's made some very odd calls at the OL and QB that make no "team" sense, only parcells comfort zone.

i'm glad he's got his comfort zone, i'm not convincend it will work.

sue me.

 

[superpunk]

No, I'm not saying it was a grand master plan. But I'll tell you this. If Bellichek was sold on Drew Bledsoe, Tom Brady would have never stayed on the field. Brady didn't light the league on fire at the first, he just played steady football. So from that standpoint, he knew it was something that had to be addressed.

I'm saying it is something that has to be addressed. Playing VT at the end of last season was just plain stubborn stupid and there is no other face to put it on it.

Someone that stubborn and that stupid I don't trust with my team's future. Sorry.

Golden opportunity? Because Bledsoe came in for one game? Brady got them there. Had BB replaced Brady he would have lost his team.

 

[iceberg]

I disagree and those who do not see how close this team is to being a consistant playoff team must not being paying attention.....
most at the begining of this season would have been estatic for a 10-6 record and most said no playoffs and that next year was our year.

Now all of a suuden things are coming together , but now that there is some light at the end , some want to sprint to it .
Reminds me of the children on a 8 hour car trip to Disney ... first 7 hour are fine , but that last hour ?????

we are paying attention AND looking long term.

a constant long term playoff team doesn't have a retread qb, 2 aging wr's and a coach who could retire in a year or two.

do they?

 

[MapleLeaf]

The Patriots you cited earlier are where they are because they completely lucked out with a 6th round pick.

So far their Michigan QB has worked out. Ours hasn't because he was out of football for 3 years.

That's the difference.

...the Brady pick will turn out to be the greatest singular pick ever made by any team - Terrell Davis doesn't even come close.

Three SuperBowls, two MVPs, leading the league in passing yardage in 2005 and leading his team this year in which key members are not holding up their end of the bargain.

He is poised to continue with his youth many more years of successful football becasue of the special talent he has for anticipating the game of football from his position.

Of all the QBs in the league he has as good a chance of winning another SuperBowl. This man has the possibility of retiring before he his thirty with less than 10 years in the NFL and still making the Hall of Fame.

Brady is proving singlehandedly that he is the best QB in the entire league and this league is still a QB league.

He is the Joe Montana of his time.

 

[wileedog]

Not revisitionist history at all. He had the opportunity to reinstate Bledsoe. In fact, he had a GOLDEN opportunity when Bledsoe led with a heroic effort that got them INTO the Super Bowl that year, and I hate to tell you, but they weren't going to win that AFC Championship game with Brady that day.

So why didn't he go back to Bledsoe? How old was Bledsoe then? 30? Still very young by Parcell's standards.

Tell me, why didn't he go back to Bledsoe?

Because Brady is a better QB then Bledsoe. Duh.

No you tell me. Given that he had a master plan to draft a superior QB in the 6th round, why didn't he put Brady in BEFORE Drew got hurt?

 

[rcaldw]

Golden opportunity? Because Bledsoe came in for one game? Brady got them there. Had BB replaced Brady he would have lost his team.

Are you kidding me? The team rallied around Bledsoe that day. Brady hadn't accomplished anything to that point in his career. BB could have gone back to Bledsoe easily. He didn't. And you know why? He was looking LONG TERM not what gives us THE BEST CHANCE THIS DAY. Alot different than Parcells.

 

[InmanRoshi]

Brady didn't light the league on fire at the first, he just played steady football. So from that standpoint, he knew it was something that had to be addressed.

Your argument would hold more water if you didn't make things up.

Brady had a QB rating over 85+ in 2001. That's Pro Bowl caliber. He didn't meet that season QB rating again until 3 years later. 3 games where his QB rating was over 100. 6 games with a QB rating over 90.

 

[rcaldw]

Because Brady is a better QB then Bledsoe. Duh.

No you tell me. Given that he had a master plan to draft a superior QB in the 6th round, why didn't he put Brady in BEFORE Drew got hurt?

Wiledog, you aren't paying attention. I never said that BB had a grand master plan with Brady. I'm saying he already knew that Bledsoe wasn't the ultimate answer. That is why he went with Brady so quickly and so resolutely. Did he see something in Brady? I'm sure he did. But there is no way he or anyone else saw Brady developing like he has. It was simply a commitment to the future, to what CAN BE instead of what he already knew the limits to be.

That is where I see him being a lot different than Parcells. He will move forward. Parcells keeps looking backwards.

 

[rcaldw]

Your argument would hold more water if you didn't make things up.

Brady had a QB rating over 85+ in 2001. That's Pro Bowl caliber. 3 games where his QB rating was over 100. 6 games with a QB rating over 90.

Hey Roshi, you forget, I WATCHED Brady that year. I'm sure you did too. I'm not with those who are pencil pushers and think that Bledose is Marino's equal because of yards. I actually watch the players play and look at how they play, not a stats line. Brady wasn't spectacular. He was steady. In fact, in the 1st Super Bowl win the offense struggled all day until that final drive where he WAS very very good.

So, I didn't say he played poorly his first year. He played very well. Very steady. But he wasn't spectacular. Has Bledsoe ever been 85 plus in QB rating? If so, then he had every justification to go back to his veteran. Why didn't he?