Tony (2.8 ypc) Pollard eh?

USArmyVet

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No back "dominates" without blocking.. Ask Tony Pollard..


Interesting seeing as how Dalvin Cook is dominating behind an average at best OL. Oh, and James Robinson of Jacksonville is running better than Zeke.....and Ronald Jones, Nick Chubb.....but Zeke is the best ever.
 

starfan1

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I don't know which fans are clamoring for pollard to start just more touches. Just because Pollard got gobbled up a bit last night don't mean that Zeke all of the sudden Zeke don't have his problems he does. We played a good defense last night and they did pretty well on shutting us down. I actually think Zeke played well. Pollard provided us a spark on ST which is good. We can have them as a 1,2 punch they just need to be smarter about the amount of carries each gets and that should fluctuate depending on who we play.
 

aria

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No back "dominates" without blocking.. Ask Tony Pollard..
Lol, so all stats Barkley put up his rookie year wasn’t dominating? Oh that’s right, you said the Giants O line was actually much better than the stats said because Barkley was actually making them look worse, lol. Unreal.
 

jterrell

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I don't know that I would characterize Pollard as having one skill.. He's a pretty good all around talent.. we just don't use him as one. And as I pointed out, you caw on the kickoff return that he's more quick than fast. He was out in front of the cover team and got tracked down pretty easily. If he were truly "fast" he would have housed that thing. That's not a knock.. for a running back quickness is better than flat out top end speed. Of course it's nice to have both but Emmitt was quick but not fast.. Adrian Peterson and Derrick Henry are fast but not quick. Tony Dorsett and Barry Sanders were both.. But neither of them were as powerful as Emmitt, AD or Henry.. By the way, when I say Emmitt and Pollard are not "fast" it's always in the context of for NFL athletes. Any of these guys would probably beat 99.999% of the people in the world in a footrace.
Pollard ran a 4.37 at Memphis Pro Day. He has good straight line speed and acceleration.
But the reason he is so bad on kick off returns much of the time is he lacks vision.
It also hurts him on plays blown up early out of the backfield. He often doesn't see things fast enough to use his speed.
Quickness is like Cole Beasley. It's an ability to change directions and shift gears and that's not how I'd define TP at all.
He has 1 gear, fast and generally heads in one direction.
He has developed as a pass blocker and the team uses him a ton out in patterns but he hasn't shown plus hands nor great route running even though he was essentially a slot/wing back at Memphis.
I think he's a solid change of pace back from Zeke ideally used when defenses tire.
But I've said for many weeks I'd have 3 RB active and get Dowdle or someone else early carries.
Tony Pollard is simply not a starting NFL Running Back and was not drafted as such.

The key running back trait is vision. That's why Emmitt who had the same speed as me at our peaks has all those yards. I was just able to run straight at people and block them or drag them a few yards. I have zero vision. And so I played defense eventually lol.

Zeke has vision plus power but his body has taken a lot of hits and he is no longer fast. Fans love speed but it seldom lasts at RB. Good RB over any period time have vision and power. Fast (speed-reliant) RB can have very high peaks but often are out of the league in a short period too.
Zeke playing behind a JV line with a defense who is so bad you never have a lead is 10th in rushing yards and fans are melting at the thought.
 

jterrell

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Zeke in 2020:

0-49 Yards Rushed 4 Games

50-74 Yards Rushed 3 Games

75-99 Yards Rushed 4 Games

100+ Yards Rushed 1 Game


So the highly paid 'bellcow' running back has really dominated this season with ONLY 1 game of 100+ yards rushing and 7 out of 12 games rushing for LESS than 74 yards.
When you are behind by 20 it doesn't tend to favor rushing the ball.
It also doesn't help when you lack a QB and teams stop the run because they beg you to pass.
Zeke had some really bonehead plays this year that cut his own throat with fumbles and the like but no one with eyeballs sees him play in and play out and thinks he's bad if they have any idea how to evaluate RB play.
 

RonnieT24

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Lol, so all stats Barkley put up his rookie year wasn’t dominating? Oh that’s right, you said the Giants O line was actually much better than the stats said because Barkley was actually making them look worse, lol. Unreal.

I'm sorry could you post me the Giants' record his rookie year? Or does your definition of "dominating" not include winning games? Besides don't you read the Zone.. stats mean nothing if they don't lead to wins.
 

D4KADON

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Pollard is just another "Felix Jones". He's good in the role he has. If forced to be the guy, he will disappoint and his ardent supporters will turn on him quickly like they have with Zeke.
 

aria

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I'm sorry could you post me the Giants' record his rookie year? Or does your definition of "dominating" not include winning games? Besides don't you read the Zone.. stats mean nothing if they don't lead to wins.
Lol, that’s absurd. You’ve already tried this argument and lost. Anyways, they had 5 wins that year which is almost twice as much as we have with zeke this year so zeke absolutely sucks, no argument there. IMOF, I guess according to your “logic” since there are ~28 teams out of 32 that have a better record than us that must mean there are 28 better RB’s than zeke. Makes sense.

We were also 8-8 last year so zeke was mediocre at best, again no argument.

Maybe you’re on to something.
 

RonnieT24

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Interesting seeing as how Dalvin Cook is dominating behind an average at best OL. Oh, and James Robinson of Jacksonville is running better than Zeke.....and Ronald Jones, Nick Chubb.....but Zeke is the best ever.

Please share where anyone has stated that Zeke is the best ever.. other than in some idiotic strawman you just made up. And pointing out that a guy on a 1-11 team is well.. stupid.. Cook's team is .500. you can't be "dominating" if your team doesn't have a winning record. Cook also plays for a coach who understands the value of running the ball even if it isn't producing big yards. Cook averaged 3.2 ypc against Chicago on Monday night and then 4.2 against us (and lost). He averaged 3.4 the next week then 3.75 against JAX this week. So under 4 ypc in 3 of his last 4 games is "dominating." Oh and he has ONE TD in that stretch. Again.. your definition of that word clearly differs from mine.
 

RonnieT24

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Lol, that’s absurd. You’ve already tried this argument and lost. Anyways, they had 5 wins that year which is almost twice as much as we have with zeke this year so zeke absolutely sucks, no argument there. IMOF, I guess according to your “logic” since there are ~28 teams out of 32 that have a better record than us that must mean there are 28 better RB’s than zeke. Makes sense.

We were also 8-8 last year so zeke was mediocre at best, again no argument.

Maybe you’re on to something.

Sure and last year when 28 teams had a better record than the Giants? Including the Cowboys by the way.. You're right.. the logic is flawless.
 

aria

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Please share where anyone has stated that Zeke is the best ever.. other than in some idiotic strawman you just made up. And pointing out that a guy on a 1-11 team is well.. stupid.. Cook's team is .500. you can't be "dominating" if your team doesn't have a winning record. Cook also plays for a coach who understands the value of running the ball even if it isn't producing big yards. Cook averaged 3.2 ypc against Chicago on Monday night and then 4.2 against us (and lost). He averaged 3.4 the next week then 3.75 against JAX this week. So under 4 ypc in 3 of his last 4 games is "dominating." Oh and he has ONE TD in that stretch. Again.. your definition of that word clearly differs from mine.
What did I say about using terms you know nothing about? That is what’s idiotic. Do you ever learn the difference between logical and illogical fallacies so you have at least a little idea of the terms you’re using?

C’mon now Ronnie!
 

aria

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Sure and last year when 28 teams had a better record than the Giants? Including the Cowboys by the way.. You're right.. the logic is flawless.
Yup. He missed 3 games, played on a high ankle sprain most of the season and still managed over 1K yards but I’m glad we can finally agree that zeke sucks and is the 4th worst RB in the league based on our record. I’ll take it.
 

Aviano90

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Zeke still looked like the 3rd best RB in the game last night and he was drafted and paid to be the very best in the league.
 

USArmyVet

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When you are behind by 20 it doesn't tend to favor rushing the ball.
It also doesn't help when you lack a QB and teams stop the run because they beg you to pass.
Zeke had some really bonehead plays this year that cut his own throat with fumbles and the like but no one with eyeballs sees him play in and play out and thinks he's bad if they have any idea how to evaluate RB play.

So Dallas has been down by 20 every game? I do not think so. As for the QB situation, Jacksonville has played Gardner Minshew, Jake Luton, and Mike Glennon at QB and yet somehow James Robinson is out rushing Zeke by almost 200 yards (968 yards VS 784 yards) on the season with only 13 more carries (212 VS 199).
 

RonnieT24

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Yup. He missed 3 games, played on a high ankle sprain most of the season and still managed over 1K yards but I’m glad we can finally agree that zeke sucks and is the 4th worst RB in the league based on our record. I’ll take it.

Sure as long as we can agree that Barkley was in the bottom 10 in the league based on the Giants' record his rookie year and last year.. And did you just toss out an EXCUSE for the greatness that is Saquon Barkley? No way.. 15 yard penalty and loss of down.. Excuses are not accepted. You suit up you play at the expected level. If you can't then sit yer arse down. At least that's what people tell me..
 

lukin2006

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8 carries for 22 yards? Really? This is the guy yall are insisting should replace Zeke? As I predicted the long layoff allowed Zeke to bring a little juice to the stadium tonight. Alas I think he will be hard pressed to be physically ready in 5 days to play on Sunday. F you Goodell. So instead of just one game on short rest we get two this year. F you Goodell. But I digress. Both backs ran hard tonight.. but again we see that Pollard is good for an occasional splash play but there's a lot of bone dry in between them. What we saw from Zeke was consistently grinding out positive yards.. Even a couple of nice cutbacks for over 10.. Except for the idiotic play calling on the first and goal from the 1. Three straight plays into the teeth of a 9 man box with the line getting blown into the backfield. Would it kill you to run wide or off tackle down there Kellen Moore? Good thing Cooper bailed Dalton out on the 4th down throw. Dalton almost airmailed that thing.. McCarthy needs to take film of that sequence into his offseason meeting with Jerry and say " this is why I need to call plays man.. "

Pollard did have the one nice kick return but I repeat for those of you who believe he ran 4.3 at his pro-day.. If he was really that fast that linebacker doesn't track him down once he broke free like that. A true 4.3 burner takes that thing to the house high stepping the last 30 yards.

you know as well as all of us that scheme matters. This teams coaches have no clue how to use players properly. Running Pollard up the gut is not his forte. How be we try to get the ball to our players in space so they have a chance to make thinks happen.

Also, Pollard did not hold out for 90 million and got paid...
 

RonnieT24

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So Dallas has been down by 20 every game? I do not think so. As for the QB situation, Jacksonville has played Gardner Minshew, Jake Luton, and Mike Glennon at QB and yet somehow James Robinson is out rushing Zeke by almost 200 yards (968 yards VS 784 yards) on the season with only 13 more carries (212 VS 199).

I have not looked it up but I suspect JAX PROBABLY still have more than 1 starter left on their offensive line have not played 15 different combinations up front. They've been a pretty good run blocking line for the last two years.. Hell Fournette averaged 4.3 ypc behind that bunch last year and he had pretty much quit on them. Robinson looks like a quality back though.. but when your team is 1-11 your name should never be used in a sentence that includes "dominating."
 

USArmyVet

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I'm sorry could you post me the Giants' record his rookie year? Or does your definition of "dominating" not include winning games? Besides don't you read the Zone.. stats mean nothing if they don't lead to wins.


Interesting as many laud Dak for his passing stats yet scream that you can't blame him for the team going 7-11 in Dak's last 18 games because it is a TEAM game yet here you are saying Barkley's stats do not matter because the Giants team record was so poor. (Giants were 5-11 in Barley's rookie best stat season all while Cowboys went 8-8 in Dak's best statistical season)

"stats mean nothing if they don't lead to wins"

Do you hear that Dak stat supporters??????
 

USArmyVet

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I have not looked it up but I suspect JAX PROBABLY still have more than 1 starter left on their offensive line have not played 15 different combinations up front. They've been a pretty good run blocking line for the last two years.. Hell Fournette averaged 4.3 ypc behind that bunch last year and he had pretty much quit on them. Robinson looks like a quality back though.. but when your team is 1-11 your name should never be used in a sentence that includes "dominating."


Just like Dak should not be considered a Top 5 QB when he led the team to an 8-8 record last year and a 1-3 record prior to his injury this season.
 
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