Tony (2.8 ypc) Pollard eh?

[RonnieT24]

you know as well as all of us that scheme matters. This teams coaches have no clue how to use players properly. Running Pollard up the gut is not his forte. How be we try to get the ball to our players in space so they have a chance to make thinks happen.

Also, Pollard did not hold out for 90 million and got paid...

You're preaching to the choir here. Moore's playcalling in the run game has been just this side of atrocious. He simply does not have a feel for it. We have repeatedly seen games where the line is getting its collective butts whupped and we still insist on running up the gut. We did it three plays in a row from the one yard line last night. It's like he's too busy staring at the playsheet to watch the play unfold. The Ravens were killing our center and guards most of the night. But we kept pounding it in there. The young tackles may not be terribly athletic but both guys are YUGE! How about we team them up with the tight end to create a crease for a nice off-tackle play. Like the one we schemed up on Pollard's TD against Minny. Have we even attempted that play again?

 

[aria]

Sure as long as we can agree that Barkley was in the bottom 10 in the league based on the Giants' record his rookie year and last year.. And did you just toss out an EXCUSE for the greatness that is Saquon Barkley? No way.. 15 yard penalty and loss of down.. Excuses are not accepted. You suit up you play at the expected level. If you can't then sit yer arse down. At least that's what people tell me..

It wasn’t an excuse it was fact and yeah, sure, based on your standards I’ll admit Barkley was in the bottom 10 his rookie year and last year which means zeke is the 4th worst RB in the league this year and was 16th at best last year, right?

That also means zeke wasn’t the best RB in the league his rookie year and based on the playoffs, he wasn’t even top 5.

 

[RonnieT24]

Yep, not deniable.

Yes this has been true at times.. But last night wasn't one of them. Before the meaningless 12 yards on the last play of the game Pollard had 7 carries for 10 yards. His longest run to that point had been 3 yards. With two -1 carries and 2 others for no gain. No way no how can that be considered 'looked better'.

 

[LACowboysFan1]

Zeke still looked like the 3rd best RB in the game last night and he was drafted and paid to be the very best in the league.

For the last time, just getting paid doesn't mean you can just run roughshod over the league. Zeke might want to rush for 3,000 yards and 50 tds this season but if the holes aren't there it doesn't matter how much he's getting paid. He was paid based on past performance and the expectation it would continue. IF he had continued the contract would have been fine.
It didn't, but would YOU give back the money, even if the league would allow it?

No, you wouldn't. And not saying it is you, I'm sure there are some here who are just jealous of Zeke's money, or wanted the money paid to Lawrence, or Smith, or Brown, or Lewis, or some free agent. It doesn't really have anything to do with Zeke's performance.

The contract and his running are two entirely different matters. If his contract is too high, you trade him if you can, if you can't trade him you cut him and take the cap hit. Those are your only options....

 

[RonnieT24]

It wasn’t an excuse it was fact and yeah, sure, based on your standards I’ll admit Barkley was in the bottom 10 his rookie year and last year which means zeke is the 4th worst RB in the league this year and was 16th at best last year, right?

That also means zeke wasn’t the best RB in the league his rookie year and based on the playoffs, he wasn’t even top 5.

LMAO.. based on the playoffs.. Talk about trying to move the goalpost around to make yourself feel right.. The Cowboys had the best record in the league that year .. ergo.. I'll let you do the honors. He also had over 100 yards in his lone playoff game that year.. In fact, wouldya look at that.. He averages 103 yards per game in the playoffs. Which of course is only slightly better than Barkley's 0 yards per game and per carry in the playoffs. Where would that rank him all time? Help me out... top 10? top 100? top 10,000? The Giants are one win away from having more wins in a season WITHOUT Barkley then they were ever able to achieve with him. Meanwhile Gallman and Morris are both averaging over 4.5 ypc behind this allegedly horrid Giants line. How the hell are they doing that? Are they ALSO all time great talents like Barkley? Or is it possible that all the talk of how bad their line is might have been a tad overblown.

 

[MyFairLady]

Fat Zeke got paid and quit. Not sure how this is even still a topic of conversation.

 

[Aviano90]

For the last time, just getting paid doesn't mean you can just run roughshod over the league. Zeke might want to rush for 3,000 yards and 50 tds this season but if the holes aren't there it doesn't matter how much he's getting paid. He was paid based on past performance and the expectation it would continue. IF he had continued the contract would have been fine.
It didn't, but would YOU give back the money, even if the league would allow it?

No, you wouldn't. And not saying it is you, I'm sure there are some here who are just jealous of Zeke's money, or wanted the money paid to Lawrence, or Smith, or Brown, or Lewis, or some free agent. It doesn't really have anything to do with Zeke's performance.

The contract and his running are two entirely different matters. If his contract is too high, you trade him if you can, if you can't trade him you cut him and take the cap hit. Those are your only options....

He does nothing special and that is what he is supposed to be.

 

[aria]

LMAO.. based on the playoffs.. Talk about trying to move the goalpost around to make yourself feel right.. The Cowboys had the best record in the league that year .. ergo.. I'll let you do the honors. He also had over 100 yards in his lone playoff game that year.. In fact, wouldya look at that.. He averages 103 yards per game in the playoffs. Which of course is only slightly better than Barkley's 0 yards per game and per carry in the playoffs. Where would that rank him all time? Help me out... top 10? top 100? top 10,000? The Giants are one win away from having more wins in a season WITHOUT Barkley then they were ever able to achieve with him. Meanwhile Gallman and Morris are both averaging over 4.5 ypc behind this allegedly horrid Giants line. How the hell are they doing that? Are they ALSO all time great talents like Barkley? Or is it possible that all the talk of how bad their line is might have been a tad overblown.

wow, so you said you would agree about zeke if I agreed with your take on Barkley, which I did, but you just couldn’t honor your end of the deal, could you? You couldn’t hold zeke to the same pathetic illogic standards that you hold Barkley to, could you?

You spew so much verbal diarrhea you don’t even remember that you’ve tried this Morris/Gallman argument several times, I reply and you have nothing to say because it contradicts your agenda. Remember when zeke got suspended and who replaced him? Right again, it was the same Alfred Morris you say is better than Barkley! That same Morris had a better ypc than zeke did so once again, you’re right, Morris must be a better RB than not only Barkley but zeke as well! Man you have an eye for talent! While we’re on the same topic, your boy Pollard who you felt inclined to bash with the title of this thread has a better ypc average than zeke, so according to your Barkley/Morris/Gallman “logic” that mean Pollard is the better RB.

Can you tell me who the leading rusher for the Giants was until the last game? That’s right, it was Daniel Jones, I guess that means Jones is a better RB than Gallman and Morris which clearly means he’s also a better rusher than Barkley. Not only did he have more yards but he has a higher ypc average than zeke therefore he’s a better rusher than the ewok.

Lol, so you think the Giants are better off without Barkley because their record is better than it has been? It has nothing to do with their top 10 defense, does it? Ohhhhhhhh...I get it now, it must be due to their dead last ranked offense! That’s odd, they’re so much better without Barkley due to their record but they were never in last place offensively with Barkley.

You really can’t believe the crap you post, with all the people on this site, your “logic” and excuses are the absolute most insane nonsensical garbage there is. I truly think you’re just trolling.

BTW, it doesn’t matter what zeke did in the playoffs since he wasn’t good enough to win in 2016. Back to your insanity, no wins means no credit. Fatty couldn’t get the job done and Ty Montgomery did because they got the win, that’s how it works according to you, so Montgomery >zeke just like CJ Anderson>zeke in the Rams playoff game.

One last thing, I’ll just save this response so when you bring up the same Morris/Barkley comparison for the 5th time next week I won’t have to type it all out again.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Nope.. I will turn the hypocrisy back onto of those who want Pollard to start when he has the same number of games under 4 ypc as Zeke does.. But he's the "big play threat." He had a nice 3 game stretch (Philly, Pitt and Minny) where he looked good but most of the season he has been trash. Despite the fan base's incessant hunger for the backup to start, aside from a handful of plays, Pollard has not done anything to warrant starting. He's doing what he is supposed to be doing. Coming in as a change of pace back, spelling Zeke and he has improved as a pass protector which he deserves credit for. He might be the classic case of a backup player who the more he is exposed.. the more he GETS exposed. Time will tell. As I am fond of saying, every game you play in the NFL adds another page to the "book" on you. If you are not constantly working to add to your game then you are by definition losing ground. Pollard is young and has time to expand his game. If he can do it, he will have a nice long career .. ironically 3rd down and change of pace backs have longer careers on average than feature backs if for no other reason than they take a fraction of the punishment and yes, cost a fraction of the money.

Shuddup, lulz.

 

[DenCWBY]

Sadly we are now becoming plankton that other mediocre teams feed from each year to fill in gaps to make their super bowl runs. Meanwhile we're on schedule to pay an exorbitated amount of $$ to a QB who's coming off season ending surgery. Otherwise we have 3 very good receivers, a decimated O line with questionable talent and a overall defense that is worst in the league.

 

[G2]

Watching Zeke get gobbled up from the 1 yard line 3 times in a row on that last touchdown drive was painful to watch.

Pollard may not have had a good game running the ball, but he did contribute with that great kickoff return that setup Gallup's td.

And Zeke did have a decent game, but I don't understand calling out Pollard.

A kick return is irrelevant to this discussion. And, it's the last thing I would credit Pollard for because the vast majority of his returns are just awful.

 

[G2]

Interesting seeing as how Dalvin Cook is dominating behind an average at best OL. Oh, and James Robinson of Jacksonville is running better than Zeke.....and Ronald Jones, Nick Chubb.....but Zeke is the best ever.

Try sticking to the one thing Pollard and Elliott have in common. The O line. Comparing them to other teams is pointless.

 

[G2]

Yes this has been true at times.. But last night wasn't one of them. Before the meaningless 12 yards on the last play of the game Pollard had 7 carries for 10 yards. His longest run to that point had been 3 yards. With two -1 carries and 2 others for no gain. No way no how can that be considered 'looked better'.

They both doubled their carries from the previous game. Who did better?

 

[Adreme]

Technically I think the tackles are 4th stringers at this point. But did they put the starters back in when Zeke was averaging 7 yards per carry until Moore went back to his brain dead up the middle up the middle then up the middle some more running plays? The off tackle stuff was working as were the designed cutbacks. It was almost like Moore called them in the first half, saw them working and said "nah can't do that anymore, they'll be expecting it."

The thing is that they were not going to work in the second half because when you play the Ravens, or the Patriots, the Steelers, or the Chiefs, or the Saints, teams with good coaches, they adjust to what is beating them and do not let that happen in the second half of a game.

 

[OmerV]

8 carries for 22 yards? Really? This is the guy yall are insisting should replace Zeke? As I predicted the long layoff allowed Zeke to bring a little juice to the stadium tonight. Alas I think he will be hard pressed to be physically ready in 5 days to play on Sunday. F you Goodell. So instead of just one game on short rest we get two this year. F you Goodell. But I digress. Both backs ran hard tonight.. but again we see that Pollard is good for an occasional splash play but there's a lot of bone dry in between them. What we saw from Zeke was consistently grinding out positive yards.. Even a couple of nice cutbacks for over 10.. Except for the idiotic play calling on the first and goal from the 1. Three straight plays into the teeth of a 9 man box with the line getting blown into the backfield. Would it kill you to run wide or off tackle down there Kellen Moore? Good thing Cooper bailed Dalton out on the 4th down throw. Dalton almost airmailed that thing.. McCarthy needs to take film of that sequence into his offseason meeting with Jerry and say " this is why I need to call plays man.. "

Pollard did have the one nice kick return but I repeat for those of you who believe he ran 4.3 at his pro-day.. If he was really that fast that linebacker doesn't track him down once he broke free like that. A true 4.3 burner takes that thing to the house high stepping the last 30 yards.

In fairness, we can cherry pick any game by any player to make an unfair point, either in favor of, or against that player.

In this case, one game doesn't reasonably override the fact that Pollard is averaging 5.0 yards per carry over his short career.

But on the other side of the ledger, we have no knowledge of how Pollard could do as a lead RB carrying the bulk of the workload. He didn't even fill that role in college.

Personally I think there is a place for both players, maybe with a 70/30 split between Zeke and Pollard

 

[Aviano90]

Looked to me like the Ravens defense focused on Pollard a little more when he was in the game and were getting in the backfield on his carries. He didn't qualify to show up on the report that shows stacked boxes so I can't see what his % was. Zeke only faced a stacked box 16.67% of his rushing attempts which is 3 of 18 carries. Those would be the goal line attempts where he was stuffed all 3 times. I'll have to go back and watch Pollard's carries to see if my perception of the defense focusing on him is accurate or if my perception from last night was off since the hard data isn't available on him.

 

[Stash]

More facts:

 

[RonnieT24]

The thing is that they were not going to work in the second half because when you play the Ravens, or the Patriots, the Steelers, or the Chiefs, or the Saints, teams with good coaches, they adjust to what is beating them and do not let that happen in the second half of a game.

Zeke's first carry of the second half was his longest of the night. Then he got 3 on his next carry.. then we took him out for Pollard.. Then we shifted into throw it every down mode. Moore doesn't seem to want to do anything running that doesn't occur between the tackles. With a patchwork o-line that is beyond stupid.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Zeke's first carry of the second half was his longest of the night. Then he got 3 on his next carry.. then we took him out for Pollard.. Then we shifted into throw it every down mode. Moore doesn't seem to want to do anything running that doesn't occur between the tackles. With a patchwork o-line that is beyond stupid.

Right, right....Zeke runs for 1- and 2-yard gains and it’s “Moore is not letting him get in rhythm!”

When Pollard has a 3-yard gain it’s “heeeeeeehaaaw...heeeeehaaaaw....I thought Pollard was sooo much better than Zeke?!?!”

 

[gjkoeppen]

Any sound you hear is in your head. I merely stated facts. Pollard got gobbled up last night. He gets gobbled up far more than he breaks a big play but softheads don't remember the 6-7 plays of 1 or 2 yards and negative yards. They only see the one 20+ yard run and jizz themselves. Then come here and proclaim him the second coming. He gave it everything he could last night.. but there was no room for him to run. The Ravens played a 5 and 6 man line most of the night and really dared Dalton to do anything about it. It was good to see Zeke still churning out yards in spite of it but it was only a matter of time before the ineptness of the defense let the score get out of hand so that we would have to stop running the ball. It was also good to see Moore FINALLY call something other than dive up the middle for Zeke. A couple of tosses were a nice touch. Would have been even nicer to see one on the goal line instead of plunging into the teeth of the defense when it was obvious the line was getting blown up.

Funny thing, not ha ha funny, for all this 1 or 2 yard runs or runs for losses, Pollard has a better YPC at 4.7 than Elliott at 3.9. The vikings game is the only game this season where Elliott was anything close to the Elliott of old and he still had a lower YPC at 4.9 than Pollard who had a 12 YPC. Yes Elliott has more carries and it's harder to keep a higher YPC but Pollard proves that normally when he's in the Cowboys move the ball. So Pollard had a bad game last night but that's just 5 less than Elliott has had this season.
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