Tony (2.8 ypc) Pollard eh?

[MyFairLady]

Nobody really cares that much about Pollard. He is irrelevant and disposable. If only we could say the same for Chub Chub.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

This guy is really pushing hard for dumbest poster of 2020 award.

Pollard averages 5.3 yards per touch in his career.

Zeke (even including the years he was elite) averages 5.1 yard per touch in his career.

No one is claiming Pollard is a badass. We're just saying look how a mediocre RB like Pollard puts up similar or better numbers than $90 million supposedly elite RB.

Luuulz, I didn’t want to say it, but yeah.

He’s definitely vying to challenge Kaiser as the board’s biggest blowhard five years running.

 

[JonesBoys]

Where were you when Zeke posted:
2.43 YPC (Week 3)
2.83 (Week 9)
3.2 (Week 11)

Oh, that’s right...you were in your Zeke nightgown drafting up excuses for his play.

Add in what Pollards salary and cap hit vs Zeke?

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Add in what Pollards salary and cap hit vs Zeke?

Zeke gets paid in pastries. I’m not sure how to compare that to Pollard’s salary.

 

[Big_D]

lol people can't wait to build up their hero's around here! Pollard isn't overpaid and might actually break a long run someday!

 

[conner01]

8 carries for 22 yards? Really? This is the guy yall are insisting should replace Zeke? As I predicted the long layoff allowed Zeke to bring a little juice to the stadium tonight. Alas I think he will be hard pressed to be physically ready in 5 days to play on Sunday. F you Goodell. So instead of just one game on short rest we get two this year. F you Goodell. But I digress. Both backs ran hard tonight.. but again we see that Pollard is good for an occasional splash play but there's a lot of bone dry in between them. What we saw from Zeke was consistently grinding out positive yards.. Even a couple of nice cutbacks for over 10.. Except for the idiotic play calling on the first and goal from the 1. Three straight plays into the teeth of a 9 man box with the line getting blown into the backfield. Would it kill you to run wide or off tackle down there Kellen Moore? Good thing Cooper bailed Dalton out on the 4th down throw. Dalton almost airmailed that thing.. McCarthy needs to take film of that sequence into his offseason meeting with Jerry and say " this is why I need to call plays man.. "

Pollard did have the one nice kick return but I repeat for those of you who believe he ran 4.3 at his pro-day.. If he was really that fast that linebacker doesn't track him down once he broke free like that. A true 4.3 burner takes that thing to the house high stepping the last 30 yards.

Guess which RB on this team actually avg the most yards per carry
Hint, it’s not Zeke

 

[aria]

Luuulz, I didn’t want to say it, but yeah.

He’s definitely vying to challenge Kaiser as the board’s biggest blowhard five years running.

Should have kept his dumbest quotes like how during Barkley’s rookie year the Giants O line was much better than the stats said (which was one of the worst in the league) because Barkley was making them look worse then they really were.

Gallman and Morris are better than Barkley because the Giants have a better record this year then they have had with Barkley (assuming they win one more game).

Morris is better than Barkley because he has a higher YPC average (4.8 on 38 carries) than Barkley has ever had but that same “logic” doesn’t apply to when Morris had a higher YPC average when he filled in for zeke during the suspension and it doesn’t apply to Pollard because he doesn’t have as many carries as zeke (which Morris clearly didn’t over Barkley either)

These are just from the past few days and I know because I was arguing with him, I normally skip over his drivel.

*Bonus* I called him out for using the “straw man” fallacy too much and in inappropriate scenarios. He fires back about something like I shouldn’t use words I don’t understand. I respond about formal and informal fallacies (straw man is an informal fallacy) and he says “what the hell is an informal fallacy”?

Mind you I just told him not to use terms he doesn’t understand and he called me out for using words I don’t understand. You can’t make that stuff up

 

[stiletto]

Yub-nub!!

 

[CowboyRoy]

Sadly the Zeke haters will use excuses for Pollard that they would not use for Zeke

I hate Zeke and I was not impressed at all with the way Pollard ran last week. It didnt go unnoticed over here. But he didnt get stuffed 3 times from the 1 on the GL in a crucial part of the game. I was happy to see Pollard get what looked like entire drives for the most part. Maybe the coaching staff is starting to figure out what some of us already know.

 

[CalPolyTechnique]

Should have kept his dumbest quotes like how during Barkley’s rookie year the Giants O line was much better than the stats said (which was one of the worst in the league) because Barkley was making them look worse then they really were.

Gallman and Morris are better than Barkley because the Giants have a better record this year then they have had with Barkley (assuming they win one more game).

Morris is better than Barkley because he has a higher YPC average (4.8 on 38 carries) than Barkley has ever had but that same “logic” doesn’t apply to when Morris had a higher YPC average when he filled in for zeke during the suspension and it doesn’t apply to Pollard because he doesn’t have as many carries as zeke (which Morris clearly didn’t over Barkley either)

These are just from the past few days and I know because I was arguing with him, I normally skip over his drivel.

*Bonus* I called him out for using the “straw man” fallacy too much and in inappropriate scenarios. He fires back about something like I shouldn’t use words I don’t understand. I respond about formal and informal fallacies (straw man is an informal fallacy) and he says “what the hell is an informal fallacy”?

Mind you I just told him not to use terms he doesn’t understand and he called me out for using words I don’t understand. You can’t make that stuff up

Well, I guess the beauty of not knowing what informal fallacies are is you’ll never be aware you’re presenting a bad argument, which explains everything with him.

Like they say, ignorance is bliss.

 

[gjkoeppen]

You may wanna rethink this argument given that last night was the 5th time this year than Pollard has averaged less than 3.5 ypc. Or do those other games not count? FYI Zeke only has 4 such games.. The change of pace back is SUPPOSED to have a higher ypc average for reasons we've already gone over ad nauseum. That's why it's so disturbing when Pollard DOESN'T.

OK lets see which back has more fumbles, that would be Elliott because Pollard has ZERO.. Which back has the longest run from scrimmage Elliott or Pollards? Again it's Pollard. Elliott's longest run is for 24 yards but oh ya he also fumbled the ball away on that run. Pollard's longest run is 42 yards and he scored a TD on that run.

Most times you have some sound reasoning behind what you say but this time hitching your horse to a back that has had a downward trend since his rookie season isn't like you. I'll give you that this season with the offensive line merry-go-round has made things tough on all the backs, RB and QB but Elliott has a couple of other years of decline too. Elliott has led the league in rushing but now he's over 500 yards behind the league leader. I'd bet whatever you want to bet that if it wasn't for his contract that Elliott would be looking for a new team after the past couple seasons. 24.5 mil in dead money is way to much on a reduced cap for next year.
.
.

 

[Parcells4Life]

Zeke sucks. Hate to break it to his fans.

Just watch other games. There is nothing special about him anymore.

Not saying he’s Emmitt, although the play styles are more similar, but how did Emmitt look when the line started breaking down for him?

Backs that have great vision and don’t rely on athleticism, need the OL to at least give them something.

 

[quickccc]

You're preaching to the choir here. Moore's play calling in the run game has been just this side of atrocious. He simply does not have a feel for it. We have repeatedly seen games where the line is getting its collective butts whupped and we still insist on running up the gut. We did it three plays in a row from the one yard line last night. It's like he's too busy staring at the play sheet to watch the play unfold. The Ravens were killing our center and guards most of the night. But we kept pounding it in there. The young tackles may not be terribly athletic but both guys are YUGE! How about we team them up with the tight end to create a crease for a nice off-tackle play. Like the one we schemed up on Pollard's TD against Minny. Have we even attempted that play again?

This is where McCarthy or OL coach Joe Philibin (who also has vast experience as OC) should have been helping out young Kellen in suggesting/teaching him up with revamping both the run game and designing/involving the RBs in the pass game.

I’ve said several times here on the board, how I love Kellen’s route design in the pass game when it comes to the WRs and TEs as he can scheme as such to receivers are always running free.
But when it comes to the RBs, the run game is so bland and predictable, as you’ve described it it’s always up the gut middle and never a variation of formations that evolves into misdirection, edge runs, etc.
I’ll admit that in Ravens’ game,.. I “ finally ” started seeing some signs of Kellen trying to get RBs involved in the pass game - going more to the backs on screens, Conner Williams hold call wiped out a pleasant RB screen for a big play by Pollard.

Maybe that’s a start, but it’s nothing well designed and imaginative as Moore does with the receivers.
MM/Philbin/Camben (who could be available again if HC Lynn and staff is fired) with GB, had split-back formations. Lead FB blocks, mis-direction/sweep runs, it was a creative mix of formations that also led to quick swing-flair passes to backs.

I used to think OL coach Marc Columbo could’ve had a blame in the methodical run game scheme, but I know now it’s clearly more about Kellen.
But again MM the HC with his past knowledge and GB experience of how the RBs were/can be designed and involved, .. should be better helping Moore with the handling of RBs, imo.
Only thing is with the way our TEs of Schultz, or Jarwin block and lose ground and containment, I dunno if we can make a living or go to edge running too often.

 

[quickccc]

Not saying he’s Emmitt, although the play styles are more similar, but how did Emmitt look when the line started breaking down for him?

Backs that have great vision and don’t rely on athleticism, need the OL to at least give them something.

and when Emmitt himself began to physically decline …. ?
as he aged and his physical ability no longer allowed him to get into intitial opening holes and lanes anymore.

BTW, I don't see Emmitt/Zeke's play style as similar. ZKE was never on Emmitt's level in terms of elusiveness and ability to weave and slip tackles.
Zeke is a one cut runner. we're not gonna see much stop and re-start motion in his game. Per 2016, He works best when he can build momentum and accelerate into the 2nd level.
and the previous had a speed element Smith never had zeke could catch a quick screen and take it to the house on a straight line speed run. Ditto for the wheel routes on very rare occasions.
That was never in Emmitt's repeotire in the pass game.
Both had durability and blitz blocking in their games.

i think regardless of whether you have a speed back or a movement back , the more you upgrade your OL the more you have a chance to bring out the best in your featured RB.
to a degree you depend upon your OL to excel your RB but there also becomes a degree to where you want your featured back to make the OL better than what it is.

Great backs like Curtis Martin, Marcus Allen, were Not athletically explosive guys either, but their ability to see developing openings, get in-out of holes, move, glide and miss, em en route to the 2nd level, definitely helps out their respective OL units as well ..

 

[RonnieT24]

and when Emmitt himself began to physically decline …. ?
as he aged and his physical ability no longer allowed him to get into intitial opening holes and lanes anymore.

BTW, I don't see Emmitt/Zeke's play style as similar. ZKE was never on Emmitt's level in terms of elusiveness and ability to weave and slip tackles.
Zeke is a one cut runner. we're not gonna see much stop and re-start motion in his game. Per 2016, He works best when he can build momentum and accelerate into the 2nd level.
and the previous had a speed element Smith never had zeke could catch a quick screen and take it to the house on a straight line speed run. Ditto for the wheel routes on very rare occasions.
That was never in Emmitt's repeotire in the pass game.
Both had durability and blitz blocking in their games.

I agree .. Emmitt avoided contact with the subtlest of movement. Zeke initiates contact.. which is why he definitely will NOT play 15 years. Zeke did have two very nice jump cuts in the game Tuesday which caught me off guard. Both led to 10+ yard runs. He even hurdled a guy on that screen in the red zone, though he didn't get as much air as back in the day.. But he didn't need to as the db went ankle biting. I was mad when Dalton was late on the sideline route after Zeke had burned the LB trying to cover him. But it did show (again) that he has the speed to outrun linebackers in the pass game, something we woefully underutilize.

i think regardless of whether you have a speed back or a movement back , the more you upgrade your OL the more you have a chance to bring out the best in your featured RB.
to a degree you depend upon your OL to excel your RB but there also becomes a degree to where you want your featured back to make the OL better than what it is.

Great backs like Curtis Martin, Marcus Allen, were Not athletically explosive guys either, but their ability to see developing openings, get in-out of holes, move, glide and miss, em en route to the 2nd level, definitely helps out their respective OL units as well ..

I would argue that Zeke IS making this line look even better than it is because of all the times he gets hit in the backfield and still grinds out 2-3 yards. The blocking should have netted a 1-2 yard loss but Zeke turns into into a positive play on sheer power and will. Troy mentioned it a couple of times on the broadcast and he was right.. He was also complimentary of Pollard when he did the same a couple of times.. But Pollard also got dropped for losses a couple of times when Zeke might have been at least gotten one or two because he would not have tried to bounce it like Pollard did. But they're different backs in that regard. Pollard is far less likely to hammer ahead when there is no hole. If Pollard sees a linebacker in the hole he will try to bounce it. Zeke sees a linebacker in the hole and paints a target on his chest. Which one you prefer is a matter of taste.. I think we all know which one I prefer.

 

[aikemirv]

8 carries for 22 yards? Really? This is the guy yall are insisting should replace Zeke? As I predicted the long layoff allowed Zeke to bring a little juice to the stadium tonight. Alas I think he will be hard pressed to be physically ready in 5 days to play on Sunday. F you Goodell. So instead of just one game on short rest we get two this year. F you Goodell. But I digress. Both backs ran hard tonight.. but again we see that Pollard is good for an occasional splash play but there's a lot of bone dry in between them. What we saw from Zeke was consistently grinding out positive yards.. Even a couple of nice cutbacks for over 10.. Except for the idiotic play calling on the first and goal from the 1. Three straight plays into the teeth of a 9 man box with the line getting blown into the backfield. Would it kill you to run wide or off tackle down there Kellen Moore? Good thing Cooper bailed Dalton out on the 4th down throw. Dalton almost airmailed that thing.. McCarthy needs to take film of that sequence into his offseason meeting with Jerry and say " this is why I need to call plays man.. "

Pollard did have the one nice kick return but I repeat for those of you who believe he ran 4.3 at his pro-day.. If he was really that fast that linebacker doesn't track him down once he broke free like that. A true 4.3 burner takes that thing to the house high stepping the last 30 yards.

I feel a bit for Moore. All the intelligence in the world to design plays but so low on the scale in the play calling and feel for the game standpoint.

That said Dalton should have passed for 400 yards and Zeke should have run for 150 if Dalton hit throws and Moore uses the run game correctly!

 

[Loso86]

I hate Zeke and I was not impressed at all with the way Pollard ran last week. It didnt go unnoticed over here. But he didnt get stuffed 3 times from the 1 on the GL in a crucial part of the game. I was happy to see Pollard get what looked like entire drives for the most part. Maybe the coaching staff is starting to figure out what some of us already know.

Yea I hear ya... tough to do anything when the line gets NO movement at all and hes hit soon as he gets it but I get you. Pollard definitely wouldve pushed through lol

 

[Toruk_Makto]

..but wait, he's only 25 yrs old. I'd rather say, he lost the Mojo on the basis of No QB and makeshift OL. The guy can still ball with right circumstances.

He has no juice in his legs.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Yea I hear ya... tough to do anything when the line gets NO movement at all and hes hit soon as he gets it but I get you. Pollard definitely wouldve pushed through lol

Everyone knows that the way the line plays is crucial. Thats basically what we tried to tell the Zeke lovers the last couple years. That Zeke really wasnt that good he just had a great line and offense to run behind. They didnt want to hear it. Now the line is their excuse for why he isnt playing well. Which is basically confirming what many of us told them.

But at least Pollard will break off some big plays here and there regardless. And he doesnt cost 15 million per year and would be in a rotation with 1 or 2 other backs.

If you have a very good Oline that is opening up holes and running lanes who is going to do more damage? Zeke or Pollard? Zeke will rip off 4 yarders and Pollard will rip off 10 yarders and 40 yarders. Maybe get caught for a loss once in a while trying to hit it outside. Ill take that all day long.

 

[Loso86]

Everyone knows that the way the line plays is crucial. Thats basically what we tried to tell the Zeke lovers the last couple years. That Zeke really wasnt that good he just had a great line and offense to run behind. They didnt want to hear it. Now the line is their excuse for why he isnt playing well. Which is basically confirming what many of us told them.

But at least Pollard will break off some big plays here and there regardless. And he doesnt cost 15 million per year and would be in a rotation with 1 or 2 other backs.

If you have a very good Oline that is opening up holes and running lanes who is going to do more damage? Zeke or Pollard? Zeke will rip off 4 yarders and Pollard will rip off 10 yarders and 40 yarders. Maybe get caught for a loss once in a while trying to hit it outside. Ill take that all day long.

You know I would like to see the pollard lovers see him play a full game and what hes about so they could gush a little. Of course he has burst and fresh legs while Zeke is getting the tough yardage and grinding them down. It's a good 1,2 punch for me. Pollard isnt good with tough yards or picking up the block