Top 5 Current Cowboys

Boyzmamacita

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firehawk350;2085804 said:
How is number 4 a contradiction? I said he was the rock in the secondary, he will cover a receiver very well, but he doesn't intercept a lot of balls so I don't consider him a game-changer like you would, say, Champ Bailey.

You said Newman is overrated, then you proceed to tell us how important he is to our team. Interceptions aren't everything. And you would mention a former Deadskin to make your point. How predictable.

You're obviously biased so I'll dismiss #3. Antonio Gates produces at the level that Witten did this year just about every year. Witten is a better blocker, but we are talking about different skill sets and if I had my choice of any TE in the league, I would take Gates.

Cowboys bias is something you just mind find in a Cowboys FAN zone.:rolleyes:

If Witten is a better blocker and produces at Gates' level catching the ball, then by definition, he's better. I'm not saying that's true, I'm challenging your logic here. Your choice of TEs isn't the sames as who's better.

Number 5 has no truth to it? So he doesn't create opportunities? Either way, at that point in his career, Bledsoe was a horrible QB, it's like comparing Romo to what Brad Johnson does if he is forced into action for an appreciable time. Romo has to prove he can produce without TO, TO has produced without Romo

I'm just tired of trolls and fans of other teams not giving Romo his props. Yeah TO scored 4 TDs against you guys last year, making your secondary look pretty stupid. But he wasn't throwing the ball to himself. And it's not like other Dallas receivers haven't shone against you guys. I recall Patrick Crayton and Terry Glenn having some of their best games against you.
 

BIGDen

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EndGame;2085618 said:
Looking at them as compared to players at their position on other teams...

TO
Romo
Ware
Witten
Newman

What he said. Each of those guys is in the top 3 or 5 in the league at their respective position. Next I'd probably put Flozell and Leonard Davis. McBriar's pretty good too. I love Barber, but he has not proven to be at that superstar level yet.
 

rodd94

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no one really seems to be mentioning nick folk or Matt mcbriar. folk kicked some important field goals last season and mcbriar was always a solid punter.
 

garder54

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rodd94;2086181 said:
no one really seems to be mentioning nick folk or Matt mcbriar. folk kicked some important field goals last season and mcbriar was always a solid punter.

hard to mention a kicker and a punter with only 5 slots available. im sure theyd be on most top 10's
 

firehawk350

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Boyzmamacita;2086167 said:
You said Newman is overrated, then you proceed to tell us how important he is to our team. Interceptions aren't everything. And you would mention a former Deadskin to make your point. How predictable.

Overrated and very important aren't mutually exclusive. People say he's the best CB in the league but the evidence is just not there for that. He's a top-5 or 10, really depending on preference (do you prefer a gambler or a guy who can take a receiver out of the game), but definitely not the best in the league. And Champ Bailey has been mentioned as the best CB in the game many times and by many Cowboy fans. Nice try at that ad hominem though.



Boyzmamacita;2086167 said:
Cowboys bias is something you just mind find in a Cowboys FAN zone.:rolleyes:

Well now we can officially discredit your idea that Witten is the best TE in the game, great, let's keep moving on.

Boyzmamacita;2086167 said:
If Witten is a better blocker and produces at Gates' level catching the ball, then by definition, he's better. I'm not saying that's true, I'm challenging your logic here. Your choice of TEs isn't the sames as who's better.

Witten doesn't produce at Gates' level. Gates also doesn't have TO to draw coverage away either. Gates is the better TE and it really isn't even debatable.



Boyzmamacita;2086167 said:
I'm just tired of trolls and fans of other teams not giving Romo his props. Yeah TO scored 4 TDs against you guys last year, making your secondary look pretty stupid. But he wasn't throwing the ball to himself. And it's not like other Dallas receivers haven't shone against you guys. I recall Patrick Crayton and Terry Glenn having some of their best games against you.

Patrick Crayton, really? I don't remember too much about him doing all that well against the Skins in the couple of games we had Romo throwing him the ball. And Terry Glenn produced well in the first 06 game against the Skins, when Bledsoe was throwing it to him, not so much in the second of either 06 or 07. Regardless, you do realize that there were other games other than the 2 Skins games you play each year? Even if other receivers have decent stats or produce, if you don't think TO and his ability to roll coverage away from other receivers, you don't know football.

This is fact; Romo hasn't proven he can play at a high level without TO; TO has proven he can play at a high level without Romo.
 

CATCH17

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firehawk350;2086194 said:
Reggie Wayne would like to have a word with you...

I think Reggie Wayne is now their #1 and Harrison is their #2.

So maybe Harrison would like to have a word with him.
 

Zaxor

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firehawk350;2086189 said:
Witten doesn't produce at Gates' level. Gates also doesn't have TO to draw coverage away either. Gates is the better TE and it really isn't even debatable.


Crap!!!!
that is just silly the stats are available to you

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...ence=null&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Find

Witten had produced better than Gates last year 2007...

Witten also out produced Gates in 2004

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...ence=null&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Find

Gates was a little better in 2005 & 2006

Why don't you do your research first before spouting crap

Witten doesn't produce like gates...BWahahahaha

oh and if you blame it on TO for Witten's success I will blame it on LT...I mean good God man when a team has 11 in the box to stop LT how hard can it be to get open(see what I mean)
 

firehawk350

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Witten has roughly 348 catches for 3983 yds and 21 TDs. Over the same time period, Gates has 340 catches for 4362 yards and 43 TDs. 400 more yards and over twice the TDs. I would call that outproducing (10% more yards and 100% more TDs).

And your last statement is ignorant. Gates is at the line, how dumb to you think defenders are? OMG, it's LT! Let's all completely forget about Gates even though it's clear that Rivers (or Brees) is dropping back to pass!
 

firehawk350

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Damn, I missed this gem last post!

"Gates marginally outproduced Witten in 05 and 06"

Stat lines anybody???

2005
Gates 89 catches 1101 yds and 10 TDs
Witten 66 catches 757 yds and 6 TDs

So marginally is now 450 yds and 4 TDs? Basically another half season of work or so for Witten that year...
 

Chief

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Favorites?

Jason Witten
DeMarcus Ware
Marion Barber
Zach Thomas
Terence Newman

There are only a handful of players on this particular Cowboys team that I really like.

It's actually easier for me to name the ones I don't like.
 

Biggems

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Ware
TO
Witten
Romo
Folk

now before i get bashed for picking Folk.......just remember all the issues we had with our kicking game and losing close games cause of crappy kickers....Folk gives us piece of mind and has made some very clutch kicks for us as a rookie.
 

DallasEast

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Chief;2086307 said:
Favorites?

Jason Witten
DeMarcus Ware
Marion Barber
Zach Thomas
Terence Newman

There are only a handful of players on this particular Cowboys team that I really like.

It's actually easier for me to name the ones I don't like.
Can you actually do that on this forum without a thread exploding for, say, 600+ replies or more?

:)
 

Zaxor

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firehawk350;2086253 said:
Witten has roughly 348 catches for 3983 yds and 21 TDs. Over the same time period, Gates has 340 catches for 4362 yards and 43 TDs. 400 more yards and over twice the TDs. I would call that outproducing (10% more yards and 100% more TDs).

And your last statement is ignorant. Gates is at the line, how dumb to you think defenders are? OMG, it's LT! Let's all completely forget about Gates even though it's clear that Rivers (or Brees) is dropping back to pass!

I said if you blame Witten's success on TO (though TO has been here only 2 years) I can as easily blame Gate's success on LT... or perhaps on an Offensive line, Defense, Coaching etc... by that I mean if in order to measure a players success you have to take in other teammates than it no longer is about the individual but about the team...

now as far as your stats there are others to consider

http://sports.outsidethebeltway.com/2006/06/jason-witten-nfls-most-productive-tight-end/



Jason Witten NFL’s Most Productive Tight End

James Joyner | Thursday, June 29, 2006
K.C. Joyner (no relation), who dubs himself “The Football Scientist,” says Dallas’ Jason Witten was the NFL’s most productive tight end in 2005.



Who is the best receiving tight end in the NFL? The prevailing wisdom is that either Antonio Gates or Tony Gonzalez deserves the distinction, but the metrics I compiled from the 2005 season for Scientific Football 2006 (available for preorder at www.TheFootballScientist.com) tell a different story.​
I use three metrics to measure the pass-catching ability of a tight end (40 receptions to qualify). The first two are TYPCA (total yards per catchable attempt) and success percentage. The third metric is derived by multiplying TYPCA by the success percentage. This last metric combination provides the best overall balance between production and consistency and is the metric I used to identify the best receiving tight end.​
For much of the 2005 season, Gates would have been the easy answer to this question. Through the first 11 weeks of the season, Gates averaged 9.3 TYPCA and posted a 74 percent success rate, which translated to a league-leading number.​
However, Gates’ numbers took a nosedive after he injured his leg in Week 11 against Buffalo. In the final six weeks of the season, he averaged only 4.5 TYPCA and had a 48.1 percent success rate. The drop in production caused Gates to drop to third in the league in TYPCA, 11th in success percentage and seventh in the combined metric.​
Gonzalez was forced to block more often last year because of the Chiefs’ offensive line injuries, but he was still a vertical passing threat. He ranked first among tight ends in medium pass attempts and fourth in deep pass attempts. He also ranked first in defensive penalty yards drawn and had the second-lowest dropped pass percentage among tight ends. Despite all these excellent numbers, Gonzalez still ranked only fifth among tight ends in TYPCA and sixth in the combination metric.​
Jeremy Shockey is another name that might come to mind. Shockey did rank third among tight ends in catchable attempts, fourth in successful plays and second in total yards. Unfortunately, he posted a 61 percent success rate, next to last among qualifying tight ends. He does well when he catches a pass, but having inaccurate Eli Manning as your quarterback almost assures your success percentage will be low.​
The emerging Chris Cooley frequently is used as an H-back, meaning he lines up in the backfield or as a wingback on the line of scrimmage. This might seem to be a handicap, but the Commanders use this positional flexibility to help get Cooley open, as evidenced by his ranking fourth in success percentage. He wasn’t just a check-down target, either, as his 8.3 TYPCA was the fourth best in the league.​
The big surprise in these rankings was Jerramy Stevens. Stevens is Seattle’s very talented, but maddeningly inconsistent tight end. Most analysts, myself included, tend to focus on the many plays Stevens takes off in a game. However, the metrics show Stevens is one of the best tight ends in the NFL.​
Stevens ranked first among tight ends with an 8.9 TYPCA. He tied for second in medium pass success percentage and was third in medium pass TYPCA. His overall success percentage was buoyed in part by the fact that he was thrown only two deep passes all year long, but he did catch both. His combined metric number of 6.5 yards was the second best among tight ends.​
The best receiving tight end in the NFL in 2005 was Jason Witten. The offensive line injuries in Dallas didn’t stop him from ranking second in the total TYPCA category and fifth in success percentage. He also had the lowest overall dropped pass percentage of any tight end.​
Witten didn’t rack up these numbers strictly on short passes. Witten was excellent at medium passes, ranking second in medium TYPCA and second in medium success percentage. He wasn’t the best deep threat, but managed to rank fifth in deep success percentage.​
I expect Gates to bounce back from his injuries to reclaim the throne as the best pass-catching tight end in 2006, but until then, he’ll have to take a backseat to Witten.​
Here are the top five in each category:​
Yards Per Attempt​
1. Jerramy Stevens — 8.9​
2. Jason Witten — 8.7​
3. Antonio Gates — 8.4​
4. Chris Cooley — 8.3​
5. Tony Gonzalez — 8.2​
Success %​
1. Jermaine Wiggins — 80.5%​
2. Alex Smith — 77.8%​
3. Erron Kinney — 77.8%​
4. Chris Cooley — 77.2%​
5. Jason Witten — 77.0%​
Success % x Yards Per Attempt​
1. Jason Witten — 6.7​
2. Jerramy Stevens — 6.5​
3. Chris Cooley — 6.4​
4. Todd Heap — 5.9​
5. Erron Kinney — 5.8​
Most of us thought last year was actually a bit of a down year for Witten. But I’m not going to argue with science.

firehawk350;2086258 said:
Damn, I missed this gem last post!

"Gates marginally outproduced Witten in 05 and 06"

Stat lines anybody???

2005
Gates 89 catches 1101 yds and 10 TDs
Witten 66 catches 757 yds and 6 TDs

So marginally is now 450 yds and 4 TDs? Basically another half season of work or so for Witten that year...

See above article...
 
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