Trade talks

[jterrell]

Washington is one team that is strapped for cap room and currently is desperate for a DE.

I could see Ellis having great value at his age and health to a team that wants a traditional DE.

I could see Ellis and a 3rd moving you up to a 2nd....If he's going to be a backup and malcontent, along with our youth movement, you're looking to unload him anyway, so if it turns a 5th into a 4th, that's a good deal for the Cowboys.

Whenever people mention moving up in the draft folks always start thinking first round....that definitely isn't happening without putting a bunch of picks together.

I'm guessing at some point we'll be looking to move up earlier in round 2...improving some of our other selections now will make that easier to do on draft day.

wow....

bro, this has to be one of the worst ideas ever.

we should improve an arch rival and division foe who we play each season at a position of weakness for them and just hand them a starter so we can move from the 5th to the 4th??? WOW!

 

[SLATEmosphere]

During our most productive(/sarcasm off) December, Ellis was subbed out more than half the game.

I have no doubt the team wants to start Spencer assuming he is not suspended a game, but Ellis is by far the 2nd best pass rusher we have.

Spencer has certainly not prove he can handle playing every down muhc less stay healthy doing so.

Greg Ellis has never been popular amongst Cowboys fans and I am sure that plays into his continual whine.

He is definitely a liability in coverage as are all DE's. But right now we can't reproduce the pressure he applies. And Ware did get 20.5 sacks but he also had MOST of those before Ellis stopped getting major playing time. See losing the threat of Ellis as a pass rusher affects other guys totals as well.

Ware had 5 sacks in Decmber and Ellis had 3 in very limited playing time.
That 3 tied him for 8th best in the NFL. You do not give away that type of situational pass rusher, they are gold.

Are you kidding me? Man, you have to stop making excuses for this guy. It's pretty annoying. Do you watch the games? Do you hear Ellis whining about getting playing time and the third down packages? Your over-valuing Ellis WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY to much. Ellis get's all the third down snaps along with the obvious passing situation snaps. Playing along side Ware, he SHOULD get double digit sacks. Spencer doesn't even get a chance to. He plays first and second downs when they might not blitz alot and he has to play the run. Ellis will go for stretches for 3-4 games where he won't even get a sack. Then he'll have like 2 sacks in one game against the Niners to pad his stats. I guarentee you that Spencer would get double digit sacks playing with Ware too if he got his snaps.

Ellis will not be missed, and we arn't losing the talent you think we are.

 

[Woods]

Which is why he is likely going to stick around another year then just be cut.
This team has drafted 3 decent pass rushers in 10 years and one of those is a nose tackle.

Unless the point is to lessen the talent on this team to the 9 win caliber we played at last year this move would be insane.

This is a team that relies on getting after the QB. The entire scheme is shot if there isn't ample pressure.

If anyone can name me a decent LB/DE pass rusher we drafted outside of round 1 since 1998 and I'll gladly shut up.

Why not consider bringing back a guy like E Ekuban and play him at OLB?

BP suggested that to Ekuban, but Ekuban wanted out.

I think Ekuban got 5 sacks last year coming back from an Achilles injury.

Opposite Ware we should be able to get more.

Plus, in the Draft we take another OLB to groom.

Ekuban is only 1 idea. There have been other guys also mentioned.

 

[Da Hammer]

i doubt we get anything more than a 5th for him. we should just keep him unless the coaching staff is just really tired of his attitude.

 

[wileedog]

During our most productive(/sarcasm off) December, Ellis was subbed out more than half the game.

Again, because the only reason they want him on the field is to rush the passer.

I have no doubt the team wants to start Spencer assuming he is not suspended a game, but Ellis is by far the 2nd best pass rusher we have.

That doesn't make him great or irreplaceable. Again, he was for the most part asked to come in and do one thing again consistent single teams because other guys had to be compensated for.

My guess is if Hos is correct and the team is really shopping him they feel they can replace his declining skills in the draft, and perhaps get a more complete player to boot. I don't think you need a first rounder to replace Ellis at this point, and there are always solid LBers in the 2nd and 3rd.

Spencer has certainly not prove he can handle playing every down muhc less stay healthy doing so.

Certainly, but like Roy Williams they blew a 1st round draft pick on him and its time to see if he can play - not give all of the pass rushing downs to the aging vet on borrowed time here.

Greg Ellis has never been popular amongst Cowboys fans and I am sure that plays into his continual whine.

Chicken or the egg?

He is definitely a liability in coverage as are all DE's. But right now we can't reproduce the pressure he applies.

And again, I am wondering if the team has decided it has had enough of trying hide weaknesses like Roy and wants to get more versatile in the game plan. We can't *currently* reproduce what he brings, but what he brings is going to continue to diminish as he ages, and there is a draft coming up where we need to find LBers anyway.

And Ware did get 20.5 sacks but he also had MOST of those before Ellis stopped getting major playing time. See losing the threat of Ellis as a pass rusher affects other guys totals as well.

Gimme a break. No one rolled their protection schemes away from Ware toward Greg Ellis.

Ware had 5 sacks in Decmber and Ellis had 3 in very limited playing time.
That 3 tied him for 8th best in the NFL. You do not give away that type of situational pass rusher, they are gold.

Again, the very limited playing time were all passing situations. Just because he wasn't in there to stop FB's running up the middle doesn't mean he lost significant sack totals.

He played in 3 less games the year before and racked up 12.5, so obviously there is a slippage in play, and the guy is going to be 34 heading into the season. That's old for a guy who spent the majority of his career as a DE getting pounded by Tackles.

Look, I do agree you don't just chuck him for a 6th or 7th, and certainly don't cut him as some have suggested (as personally satisfying as that might sound), but if the team can get a 3rd or 4th I think you jump on it. As I said we need to replace him this time next year anyway and he will certainly be even less valuable from a trade standpoint when he's going to be 35 going into the season, so you will probably get nothing for him.

 

[Clove]

We seem to wait to do these kind of things when the player has very little in the tank. Why didn't we do this 2 seasons ago? Just rid ourselves of Ellis and his annual offseason temper tantrums.

Hopefully some sucker GM will come along and think Ellis has something to offer.

More like 3 or 4 seasons ago when it was clear we were going to run a 3-4, we really could have gotten great value, but once again this pathetic front office is just that, pathetic. They would be lucky to get a 7 out of him now.

 

[lqmac1]

just read on dallascowboys.com the Cowboys are trying to package a deal with Greg Ellis and picks to move up in the draft. It was in the fan zone not sure if its true they said it was being discussed on Mike the Maddog show on Sirius Satellite. I'm trying to get mine up on the computer now. Hoping to here it on the NFL channel on sirius if true.

Maybe if we added barbie with it we could get a first from billy

 

[BourbonBalz]

I'd do that and never look back...

That would be a horrible trade for us. We give up Ellis, Crayton, and a 3rd round pick for Detroit's 2nd and 4th round picks??????? I don't think so. We'd basically give up Ellis AND Crayton for a 2nd round pick, plus drop down from 3rd to 4th. Absolutely not. I realize Detroit's 2nd round pick is the first in the round, but still. Terrible trade.

 

[Vinnie2u]

Only if Holt gets signed... Til then just say no to Crayton getting trade.. Ellis however can go pack...

 

[BourbonBalz]

So let me get this straight ( and please, this is not a criticism of you, but of the information ):

The Cleveland Browns would get their own 3rd round pick back ( 5th in the 3rd round ), plus Greg Ellis, plus Patrick Crayton, for their 2nd round pick ( 4th in the 2nd round ), and a 4th round pick ( 4th in the 4th round ).

The Cowboys, in essence, would be giving up two solid veterans, plus a high 3rd round pick for a high 2nd round pick and a high 4th round pick.

Exactly HOW does this make the Cowboys better ? It obviously makes them even younger and more inexperienced than what they are right now, but how does it make them better ?

:starspin

Exactly. It would be a stupid trade on our part. We have a very young and inexperienced WR corp. and we would give up Crayton? Ah, no. And, we give up Ellis with no one to replace him. That would basically leave us with Ware and Spencer as our only outside LBs that are any good. Not a good move.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

That would be a horrible trade for us. We give up Ellis, Crayton, and a 3rd round pick for Detroit's 2nd and 4th round picks??????? I don't think so. We'd basically give up Ellis AND Crayton for a 2nd round pick, plus drop down from 3rd to 4th. Absolutely not. I realize Detroit's 2nd round pick is the first in the round, but still. Terrible trade.

Actually, for cap reasons, that might not be such a bad trade. Detroits 2nd is essentially a 1st and the 4th is pretty much a 3rd. That may not be such a bad deal, especially if we are planning on signing a Vet WR.

 

[BourbonBalz]

We'd most likely draft Ellis's replacement and draft a WR..

2 2nd rounders and 3 4th rounders( all of them high picks in those rounds) Is alot of ammo on draft day.

And they might be ready to contribute in what 2-3 years? Or maybe never. See Bobby Carpenter. The ONLY way we should even consider this trade is if we sign a reliable WR such as Torry Holt. Absolutely no way we should even consider going into the season with Roy Williams, Austin, Hurd, Stanbach, and a rookie. That would be an absolute disaster.

 

[wileedog]

And they might be ready to contribute in what 2-3 years? Or maybe never. See Bobby Carpenter.

We know for sure Ellis won't be contributing to anything in two years and probably not even after this season. We need to replace him soon anyway, if we can get a decent pick out of it, why note a year early?

The ONLY way we should even consider this trade is if we sign a reliable WR such as Torry Holt. Absolutely no way we should even consider going into the season with Roy Williams, Austin, Hurd, Stanbach, and a rookie. That would be an absolute disaster.

Agreed, in fact Holt's release is probably part of what is fueling this idea. Actually I'd be ecstatic if we traded out Crayton for a couple years of Holt, then picked up another WR to groom.

That said, I find it a bit of a coincidence that the two least popular players left on the team magically wound up in a trade deal rumor together....

 

[jterrell]

Are you kidding me? Man, you have to stop making excuses for this guy. It's pretty annoying. Do you watch the games? Do you hear Ellis whining about getting playing time and the third down packages? Your over-valuing Ellis WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY to much. Ellis get's all the third down snaps along with the obvious passing situation snaps. Playing along side Ware, he SHOULD get double digit sacks. Spencer doesn't even get a chance to. He plays first and second downs when they might not blitz alot and he has to play the run. Ellis will go for stretches for 3-4 games where he won't even get a sack. Then he'll have like 2 sacks in one game against the Niners to pad his stats. I guarentee you that Spencer would get double digit sacks playing with Ware too if he got his snaps.

Ellis will not be missed, and we arn't losing the talent you think we are.

And you know this how???
Who exactly has gotten all these magical sacks?

Ellis averaged 8 sacks a year minus Ware as the only pass rusher on the
roster. Who else do have that has done that? Who else averages 5 sacks per year?

Stop listening to the voices in your head because they are wrong.

Spencer didn't get many passing down chances because he sucked rushing the passer. He has exactly zero NFL caliber pass rushing moves. But it isn't about Spencer it is about what's behind Spencer and the answer to that is zero.

What's annoying is people who want to suspend reality and pretend we can go use a 5th round pick to grab a backup OLB. As if we haven't tried to do that before and failed miserably.

Think about it this way. Greg Ellis is Jon Kitna. What we have at OLB without Ellis is Brooks Bollinger. That is worth more than a 5th or 6th round pick any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Ellis has clearly declined and he gives us a pure pass rusher who holds the line but can not move it against the run and offers nearly no coverage or speed.

But the guy behind Ellis offer nothing. No ability to play the run and anchor the edge, no ability to rush the passer, nothing but a very blockable body that will be ont he ground versus a decent tight end much less a tackle.

 

[BourbonBalz]

Actually, for cap reasons, that might not be such a bad trade. Detroits 2nd is essentially a 1st and the 4th is pretty much a 3rd. That may not be such a bad deal, especially if we are planning on signing a Vet WR.

Not exactly. We'd have to eat Crayton's signing bonus this year and with all the dead $ we already have, that wouldn't be easy to do. We'd gain by getting rid of Ellis, but lose getting rid of Crayton. Pretty much a wash.

 

[jterrell]

And they might be ready to contribute in what 2-3 years? Or maybe never. See Bobby Carpenter. The ONLY way we should even consider this trade is if we sign a reliable WR such as Torry Holt. Absolutely no way we should even consider going into the season with Roy Williams, Austin, Hurd, Stanbach, and a rookie. That would be an absolute disaster.

The problem even if we add Holt is that we have zero OLBs behind Ellis and there are next to none on the free agent market.Unless we can add an OLB that can play it makes very little sense. Its not like we are a rebuilding team thinking about winning in 3 years. This team wants to win 10 years ago much less next season. We have a franchise player on defense and we think we have a franchise QB, if you do then you go out and try to win games now.

And as another thought we do not even have Demarcus Ware signed. What happens if he holds out a couple games before he signs. We really gonna start Justin Rogers?

 

[BourbonBalz]

"We know for sure Ellis won't be contributing to anything in two years and probably not even after this season. We need to replace him soon anyway, if we can get a decent pick out of it, why note a year early?"


And what about the upcoming season? Don't know about you, but I'm hoping we're in the playoff hunt this year. Do you really want to go into the season with a 3-4 defense and only two viable pass rushing OLBs? Not me. Ellis isn't a greal player, but he's still a pretty damn good pass rusher. Get rid of him and all we have is Ware and Spencer. No depth. What if one of them get hurt? Who you going to put in? Bobby Carpender? A rookie?

 

[BourbonBalz]

The problem even if we add Holt is that we have zero OLBs behind Ellis and there are next to none on the free agent market.Unless we can add an OLB that can play it makes very little sense. Its not like we are a rebuilding team thinking about winning in 3 years. This team wants to win 10 years ago much less next season. We have a franchise player on defense and we think we have a franchise QB, if you do then you go out and try to win games now.

And as another thought we do not even have Demarcus Ware signed. What happens if he holds out a couple games before he signs. We really gonna start Justin Rogers?

You're preaching to the choir.

 

[cowboyjoe]

well look at it this way;

first was reported that greg ellis wouldnt come out on a critical play last year in a game, and cost us a delayed time out along with a penalty. At same time greg complains and gripes all the time. Now, after getting rid of adam jones, T O, Tank Johnson, and Roy Williams whom didnt work hard last 3 years. You only have 2 main people left of compliners and gripers. Crayton, Greg Ellis and Flozell Adams whom doesnt work hard on offseason conditioning etc, which effects the other offensive linemen.

If the Cowboys can trade greg, get a 2nd and 4th, along with trading Crayton, but first sign Holt, I think we are on the right road finally. That will finish sending the message to players like terrance newman and bradie james from griping to shut up and play, not gripe.

I still think the Cowboys can get a 3rd or 4th for crayton. That will help us in the draft, what I would do if you trade crayton too after signing Holt, I would try to get a low round pick too with the 3rd or 4th, say a 6th or 7th, that way you can use some of those low round picks to move up in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th to 5th rounds, that where the meat of the draft is.

Again, we need quality players not quanity.

 

[Kangaroo]

Well, I may eat my own words. I was just told that this may have some legs. Not in the exact way it is being reported, but Ellis is being shopped and is probably not on the 2009 team.

From someone I do trust.

Ellis does not surprise me we can get free up cap dollars I doubt Crayton is part of the trade