Trade talks

[Woods]

I expect that if this happens we get maybe a 5th or 6th round value out of him -- and the trade wouldn't happen unless we drafted at least 1 and maybe 2 OLB prospects.

I wonder if we could hedge our bets and get a guy like E Ekuban or A Peek at OLB? Along with the draft pick(s), that is.

 

[dallasfan4evr]

There's also a mention of Dallas signing Ken Lucas... Anyone with info on that?

just read on dallascowboys.com the Cowboys are trying to package a deal with Greg Ellis and picks to move up in the draft. It was in the fan zone not sure if its true they said it was being discussed on Mike the Maddog show on Sirius Satellite. I'm trying to get mine up on the computer now. Hoping to here it on the NFL channel on sirius if true.

 

[Woods]

There's also a mention of Dallas signing Ken Lucas... Anyone with info on that?

I think those rumors are still unsubstantiated.

That said, I think still we do need to pick up 1 more Secondary player via FA.

 

[jterrell]

No we would save $5mill dumping Greg.

You would have more dead cap money which is what I stated.

The thought we can replace Ellis int he draft is both humorous and well a little sad. We tried with how many first rounders??? Now it is suggested we can with a 2nd?

Spencer hasn't even replaced him yet in pass rushing but we want to dump him and let a rookie do that?

Put away the girly emotions and think about actual football.

 

[bbgun]

If all we can get is a 6th or a 7th, maybe we're better off keeping him for one more year.

 

[Woods]

If all we can get is a 6th or a 7th, maybe we're better off keeping him for one more year.

I would, unless I could also get a veteran OLB to hedge my bets.

 

[cowboys5]

If all we can get is a 6th or a 7th, maybe we're better off keeping him for one more year.

remember randy moss was traded to the pats and oakland got a 4th.....

 

[jterrell]

If all we can get is a 6th or a 7th, maybe we're better off keeping him for one more year.

If we could get a pick in the first 4 rounds it might make sense.

I say might because we'd need to use some/all of his cap relief to sign a backup OLB immediately.

There are 3 or 4 teams switching to a 3-4 all within the past 12 months. You do not want to have to reach for a guy at OLB because of that.

This defense will go as far as its OLB takes it as do decent all 3-4 defenses.

Ellis is a whiner but he produces. Even losing snaps by the boatload he hit 8 sacks last year. 20.5 sacks over 2 years is very good production and worth every bit the 6.5 mil cap hit. Factor in all other things and you'd love to get that 5.0 mil back but you have to have more at OLB than magic beans plus Rogers or Barbie.

So ask yourself what OLBs can we sign right now and what would they cost to fill that role. If you are confident it can be filled by a current free agent this deal makes sense. If it can not then this is lunacy.

 

[jterrell]

remember randy moss was traded to the pats and oakland got a 4th.....

Moss was coming off horrid performances and was making a ton of money.
He would only negotiate his contract with a few teams so Oakland got what they could for him.

Dallas didn't win 3 or 4 games last year.

They can't give away talent.

BTW, Oakland thought they'd just sign Javon Walker to replace Moss and we see how well that worked out.

Those that are for this trade are thinking like Al Davis though I do give you that.

 

[cowboys5]

Moss was coming off horrid performances and was making a ton of money.
He would only negotiate his contract with a few teams so Oakland got what they could for him.

Dallas didn't win 3 or 4 games last year.

They can't give away talent.

BTW, Oakland thought they'd just sign Javon Walker to replace Moss and we see how well that worked out.

Those that are for this trade are thinking like Al Davis though I do give you that.

greg ellis is not talent that we "need" he may be a good pass-rusher but we can save money by cutting him and he cant cover 95percent of nfl TE's IMo. a 6th or 7th is good because thats where the "gems" are

 

[jazzcat22]

How much trade value does a declining, malcontent, 33 year old hybrid have? I doubt much.

If it can moves us up 1 round , from a 6 to a 5, or a 5 to a 4 [unlikely], I'm all for it.

Wishful thinking of a 4 to a 3, but you never know.

 

[jterrell]

greg ellis is not talent that we "need" he may be a good pass-rusher but we can save money by cutting him and he cant cover 95percent of nfl TE's IMo. a 6th or 7th is good because thats where the "gems" are

rofl.
i hope that was sarcasm.

 

[jterrell]

If it can moves us up 1 round , from a 6 to a 5, or a 5 to a 4 [unlikely], I'm all for it.

Wishful thinking of a 4 to a 3, but you never know.

What Ellis' value is relative to anyone else is pointless unless that value exceeds what he is worth here.

All that really matters is what he is worth to us.
We have 3 OLBs on the roster right now.
We have 3 pass rushers on the roster right now.

Ellis is worth a good deal to this team.

 

[wileedog]

Ellis is a whiner but he produces. Even losing snaps by the boatload he hit 8 sacks last year. 20.5 sacks over 2 years is very good production and worth every bit the 6.5 mil cap hit. Factor in all other things and you'd love to get that 5.0 mil back but you have to have more at OLB than magic beans plus Rogers or Barbie. .

He was taken out of obvious run situations or sets where he might have cover someone. And yeah 8 sacks is nothing to sneeze at, but when the guy on the other side of you is racking up 20 and all you are asked to do is rush the passer, you better get that.

I wouldn't be surprised if the team may be trying to get rid of guys like Ellis or Roy who have severe defincies in some aspect of their game, and Ellis is certainly just a 3rd down pass rush specialist at this point. If you can get a matchup on him with a TE or RB he's a weakness.

Throw in the fact some of the guys on defense consider this whiner a team leader on D and $5M and there is an incentive to look for other options.

I do agree though the move would need another one in conjunction with it - Burnett and Ellis would be too much to try and fill with just the draft, unless someone on the team actually thinks Carpenter can contribute. But this is undoubtedly Ellis' last year here if he does get through camp IMO so we are going to be facing replacing him this time next year anyway.

 

[STSINAZ]

there aint no way we are getting better than a 3 for ellis

 

[jterrell]

He was taken out of obvious run situations or sets where he might have cover someone. And yeah 8 sacks is nothing to sneeze at, but when the guy on the other side of you is racking up 20 and all you are asked to do is rush the passer, you better get that.

I wouldn't be surprised if the team may be trying to get rid of guys like Ellis or Roy who have severe defincies in some aspect of their game, and Ellis is certainly just a 3rd down pass rush specialist at this point. If you can get a matchup on him with a TE or RB he's a weakness.

Throw in the fact some of the guys on defense consider this whiner a team leader on D and $5M and there is an incentive to look for other options.

I do agree though the move would need another one in conjunction with it - Burnett and Ellis would be too much to try and fill with just the draft, unless someone on the team actually thinks Carpenter can contribute. But this is undoubtedly Ellis' last year here if he does get through camp IMO so we are going to be facing replacing him this time next year anyway.

During our most productive(/sarcasm off) December, Ellis was subbed out more than half the game.

I have no doubt the team wants to start Spencer assuming he is not suspended a game, but Ellis is by far the 2nd best pass rusher we have.

Spencer has certainly not prove he can handle playing every down muhc less stay healthy doing so.

Greg Ellis has never been popular amongst Cowboys fans and I am sure that plays into his continual whine.

He is definitely a liability in coverage as are all DE's. But right now we can't reproduce the pressure he applies. And Ware did get 20.5 sacks but he also had MOST of those before Ellis stopped getting major playing time. See losing the threat of Ellis as a pass rusher affects other guys totals as well.

Ware had 5 sacks in Decmber and Ellis had 3 in very limited playing time.
That 3 tied him for 8th best in the NFL. You do not give away that type of situational pass rusher, they are gold.

 

[Chuck 54]

Washington is one team that is strapped for cap room and currently is desperate for a DE.

I could see Ellis having great value at his age and health to a team that wants a traditional DE.

I could see Ellis and a 3rd moving you up to a 2nd....If he's going to be a backup and malcontent, along with our youth movement, you're looking to unload him anyway, so if it turns a 5th into a 4th, that's a good deal for the Cowboys.

Whenever people mention moving up in the draft folks always start thinking first round....that definitely isn't happening without putting a bunch of picks together.

I'm guessing at some point we'll be looking to move up earlier in round 2...improving some of our other selections now will make that easier to do on draft day.

 

[jterrell]

there aint no way we are getting better than a 3 for ellis

Which is why he is likely going to stick around another year then just be cut.
This team has drafted 3 decent pass rushers in 10 years and one of those is a nose tackle.

Unless the point is to lessen the talent on this team to the 9 win caliber we played at last year this move would be insane.

This is a team that relies on getting after the QB. The entire scheme is shot if there isn't ample pressure.

If anyone can name me a decent LB/DE pass rusher we drafted outside of round 1 since 1998 and I'll gladly shut up.

 

[BAZ]

Gregs whiney attitude is going to have teams shy away from him. I think they get feic all for him unless it's bundled with another player.

 

[InDakWeTrust]

Since Hostile posted that we really are shopping Ellis in some way or another, I believe that a move is going to happen eventually. I have felt Ellis' play was declining, and he cannot be the agile OLB since his Achilles injury. I would like to see Spencer/draft pick/ Carpenter/Polk all play that OLB position. I cannot see us moving into the first round, but moving up in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds are a possibility. I would gladly take the 4th or 5th round for Ellis straight up. He gets his bonus from us, and can go play DE for a 4-3 team. But he lost weight to play OLB for us, he would struggle IMO with his hand down.

I wouldn't mind looking at some converted DE's in the later rounds to try to develop behind Ware/Spencer.