Two Full Offseasons of Jerry without Bill

[Stash]

Both of those coaches took some heat when they were last here with their respective units not performing well by the time they moved on from Dallas.

Could you elaborate on this statement because that's not how I remember things at all with either coach.

Campo's coverage units were always solid, if not spectacular.

His problem was taking over the head coaching job after all the talent was gone.

And Houck was not let go by Parcells twice, just recently in Miami.

And his units were always solid, as long as the team had players for him to coach. He was ousted when Bruce Coslet cam on board and tried to install a zone blocking scheme coached by an unproven line coach (Frank Verducci I think).

If you're looking to use a power running game, Houck is arguably the best line coach in the league.

 

[iceberg]

I actually agree, but you have to give Parcells a lot of credit for pointing Jerry in the right direction.

i said back on the DMN boards it seems jones is not stupid. stupid people don't work their way up to owning one of the top sports franchises in the world. given that, smart people learn. it's what they do.

he learned he needed parcells, he got him. he then learned a lot from parcells being here. parcells is parcells and moved on in time as he always does but left us with a much better team than he came in with.

and jones has learned, so it would seem.

 

[Goldenrichards83]

I actually agree, but you have to give Parcells a lot of credit for pointing Jerry in the right direction.

No doubt. He vastly improved what kind of players to look for as a GM

 

[Redball Express]

Could you elaborate on this statement because that's not how I remember things at all with either coach.

Campo's coverage units were always solid, if not spectacular.

His problem was taking over the head coaching job after all the talent was gone.

And Houck was not let go by Parcells twice, just recently in Miami.

And his units were always solid, as long as the team had players for him to coach. He was ousted when Bruce Coslet cam on board and tried to install a zone blocking scheme coached by an unproven line coach (Frank Verducci I think).

If you're looking to use a power running game, Houck is arguably the best line coach in the league.

I believe Houck was our OL coach when BP first came here..he immediately let him go and Houck went to Miami..where he stayed until BP fired him again this off-season.

If I'm wrong about that, please correct me with who was our OL coach when BP took over.

I think I'm correct there.

And as far as Campo as a DB coach, he was fine as a strictly DB coach 13-15 years ago, but he also had Wannstead and Davis as his other defensive coaches plus Jimmy Johnson as a defensive-minded HC to support them all as holdovers from UM.

And even when he was here last as HC about 6 years ago, he still was spending a great deal of time helping Zimmer in the defense and helping specifically with DB coverages, which were struggling in those 5-11 seasons pretty badly.

And they still had Deion and Woody playing back then and they were All-Pro still and still, the secondary was pretty poor. So you need to ask about what Campo was doing, what talent he had to work with and how it ended up.

Just my impression.

When Campo finally left, our secondary, our defense and of course, the team overall were pretty poor, not all because of Campo, assuredly. He was stuck with a bad desk of cards when he bacame HC.

But whatever.

Campo's time in Cleveland as DC wasn't that hot under Butch Davis and he also had alot to do with their secondary when he was there. Same thing, mixed results.

He was let go the year after Butch Davis left Cleveland as I recall. Same thing in Carolina.He was a good defensive coach, but his secondaries were not all that great. Again, it's hard to determine exactly why, talent, other defensive coaches not doing a great job..again, who knows.

As for Hudson Houck, I live here in South Florida and I have to tell you, the Fins OL was one of the worst. They didn't run block, didn't give time to the QB much and the OL and lack of development with what Houck was given go hand in hand.

But really, Houck didn't really improve the line over time, which you would think would happen, just based on coaching. It just didn't happen. In fact, each HC that came in, constantly pointed at the OL as needing to be fixed to succeed and it just never occurred.

How much of that was talent, how much the position coach, how much the OC calling plays that didn't help the OL play to their strengths..who knows.

I like Campo and Houch both. I'm just needing to see how their units are going to stack up after all these years.

It's just a legitamate question to be asked.

Thanks for the reply.

:starspin ReDBaLL ExPreSS :starspin

 

[AtlCB]

I believe Houck was our OL coach when BP first came here..he immediately let him go and Houck went to Miami I believe..where he stayed until BP fired him again this off-season.

If i'm wrong about that, please correct me with who was our OL coach when BP took over.

I think I'm correct there.

And as far as Campo as a DB coach, he was fine as a strictly DB coach 13 15years ago, but when he was here last as HC about 6 years ago, he still was spending a great deal of time helping Zimmer in the defense and helping specifically with DB coverages, which were struggling in those 5-11 season pretty badly.

And they still had Deion and Woody playing back then and they were All-Pro still and still, the secondary was pretty poor. So you need to ask about what Campo was doing, what talent he had to work with and how it ended up.

Just my impression.

When Campo finally left, our secondary, our defense and of course, the team overall were pretty poor, not all because of Campo, assuredly. He was stuck with a bad desk of cards when he bacame HC.

But whatever.

Campo's time in Cleveland as DC wasn't that hot under Butch Davis and he also had alot to do with their secondary when he was there. Same thing, mixed results.

He was let go the year after Butch Davis left Cleveland as I recall.

I like Campo and Houch both. I'm just needing to see how thier units are going to stack up after all these years.

It's just a legitamate question to be asked.

Thanks for the reply.

:starspin ReDBaLL ExPreSS :starspin

Hudson Houck coached the San Diego offensive line from 2002 to 2004 before joining Miami.

Frank Verducci took over for Houck in 2002 in Dallas and was fired after that season when Parcells took over.

 

[gazmc_06]

I love the moves Jerry has made over the last few years, bringing T.O. to Dallas is still his best decision IMO. Adding Pacman, Felix, Bennett (who I think will be an absolute star), D-Ware, Davis.....nothing but props for Jerry.

 

[Stash]

Seattle Seahawks
Houck spent one season as offensive line coach for the Seattle Seahawks in 1992. Seahawks running back Chris Warren logged the first 1,000-yard rushing season of his career with Houck tutoring his blockers.

Dallas Cowboys

Houck would spend the next nine years coaching the offensive line for the Dallas Cowboys. At times during Houck's tenure the Cowboys' line was one of the most dominant in the history of the game. The 203 sacks they allowed in nine years under Houck were the fewest of any NFL team in that span. Six offensive linemen earned 22 trips to the Pro Bowl under Houck, including Larry Allen (7), Nate Newton (5), Erik Williams (4), Ray Donaldson (2), Mark Stepnoski (2) and Mark Tuinei (2). Future Hall of Fame running back Emmitt Smith earned a pair of rushing titles during Houck's tenure, and rushed for over 1,000 yards every season. Houck was also the assistant head coach from 1994 to 1997.

San Diego Chargers

With the San Diego Chargers from 2002 to 2004, Houck transformed one of the league's worst offensive lines to one of the best. Running back LaDainian Tomlinson rushed for more than 1,300 yards in each of Houck's three seasons with the team. With five new starters on the line in 2004, the Chargers ranked 10th in total offense and sixth in rushing. The Chargers allowed fewer than 25 sacks per season under Houck.

Miami Dolphins

Houck was lured away from the Chargers by former Miami Dolphins head coach Nick Saban with a three-year contract worth $2.5 million. The contract made him the second highest paid offensive line coach in the NFL at the time, behind only Alex Gibbs with the Atlanta Falcons. During his first year with the Dolphins in 2005, Houck's offensive line ranked fourth in the NFL in fewest sacks allowed, cutting their number in half from the previous year. In 2007, Houck was reunited with then Dolphins head coach Cam Cameron. Houck and Cameron worked together in San Diego when Cameron was offensive coordinator for the Chargers.

Return to Dallas

After the Dolphins' disastrous 1-15 campaign in 2007, Houck was fired along with most of the Dolphins' coaching staff by incoming general manager Bill Parcells. Jerry Jones quickly re-hired Houck when Parcells hired Cowboys line coach Tony Sparano to serve as the Dolphins head coach.

Here's Houck's most recent NFL resume. I'm not sure if Verducci was still here when Parcells arrived, but I know that Houck wasn't.

I think Houck has a tremendous history of coaching quality line play and I expect that tradition to continue in Dallas.

I was sorry the day they got rid of him and I was thrilled to hear they got him back.

As for Campo, I think he's a good coach as long as its' within limitations.

He's a fine secondary coach, a decent defensive coordinator and a poor head coach.

There are plenty of coaches just like him. And few of them realize their limits either, especially with the dollars head coaches make.

 

[WoodysGirl]

I think the entire point of theogt's OP is that the organization hasn't gone to hell in a hand basket since Parcells left.

That said, I'm sure there are a number of people who think it's just a matter of time.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

'09 Offseason

Pat Watkins replaces Ken Hamlin (lost in FA)
Bobby Carpenter replaces Zach Thomas (one too many knocks on the noggin)
Mike Jenkins replaces Adam Jones (suspended indefinitely for buying all the
Dallas area strip joints)
Choice replaces MBIII (who still wants big money)
Tony Curtis replaces Martellus Bennett (who jokes and eats himself out the
NFL)
Nobody replaces Terry Glenn (never played again)
Nobody replaces a worn down TO
Nobody replaces Kosier (who gets tired of people making fun of him)
Nobody replaces Roy Williams (S-who follows in Kosier's footsteps--literally)

:cry2:

Thats the sound I hear coming from this post.

 

[Dodger12]

I think Parcells got this organization to focus on football again....got the players to let go of a losing mentality...but let's review.....


Cowboy Pro Bowler from the 2007/2008 season

• Roy Williams - drafted by Jerry
• Andre Gurode - drafted by Jerry
• Leonard Davis - signed by Jerry after Bill left
• Flozell Adams - drafted by Jerry
• Nick Folk - drafted by Jerry in the 6th round and made it as a rookie kicker last year
• Terrell Owens - signed by Jerry in Bill's last year...AGAINST Bills wishes.....but Bill was the one who could not wait to trade Joey Galloway for Keyshawn Johnson..Key was everage in Dallas...Galloway had a career year in Tampa
• Ken Hamlin - signed buy Jerry after Bill Parcells left
• Greg Ellis - drafted by Jerry...made his first Pro Bowl....AFTER Parcells left

• Tony Romo - UNDRAFTED....Cowboys signed him off the street at the urging of Sean Payton because he went to the same school Sean Payton went to...would have been cut if Quincy Carter not flaked out that offseason because Romo was the #4 QB...and teams do NOT carry 4 QBs
• Terrance Newman - Bill Parcellls is on record saying he wanted Dewayne Robertson, who went to the Jets...Terrance Newman made the Pro Bowl for the first time this year..which by the way was the first time he was not being coached by Bill,,,toss up
• Jason Witten - all Parcells
• Marion Barber - all Parcells
• DeMarcus Ware - this was all Jerry. Bill Parcells wanted Marcus Spears at #11. He thought they could get Ware with the other 1st round pick at 20. Had Parcells gotten his way DeMarcus Ware would not even be a Cowboy because he would not have lasted until #20.

Now lets review Parcells first day picks as Cowboy head coach

2003

• 1st round - Terrance Newman...CB.... (see above comments)
• 2nd round - Al Johnson...C....started on year in Dallas...only lasted 3...was average
• 3rd round - Jason Witten...TE..has been a beast

2004
Parcells traded out of the 1st round to pick up 2 1st round picks the following year...passing up on Steven Jackson to draft....

• 2nd round - Julius Jones...had 1 1,000 yard season in Dallas....average
• 2nd round - Jacob Rogers....LT...never played a down for Dallas...actually never played a down for anybody...currently out of football..there were scouts on draft day standing on top of the table screaming for Parcells not to draft this guy...Parcells would not listen becaue Rogers played for a "big time program"
• 3rd round - Stephen Peterman...G....never played a down in Dallas

2005

• 1st round - Demarcus Ware..OLB... (see above comments on who Parcells wanted)
• 1st round - Marcus Spears.....DE....he has 3 career sacks
• 2nd round - Kevin Burnett...LBer....has never started in Dallas
• 3rd round - no pick

2006 (this entire class is looking VERY VERY shaky)

• 1st round...Bobby Carpenter....OLB....has played nothing but special teams in Dallas
• 2nd round...Anthony Fasano...TE...just traded for a 4th round pick on draft day
• 3rd round....Jason Hatcher....DE....is a situational pass rusher...but I think he is gonna be solid

Don't believe everything ESPN tells you...this is the real...like I said, he is respnsible for Witten and Barber...those are great gets...but Parcells drafted more busts than ballers

It's pretty interesting how Parcells was over ruled on some of those quality picks like T-New, DWare, etc. but he couldn't be over ruled on the "busts" or quationable picks like Jacob Rodgers, Carpenter and Fasano. That's a neat trick.

 

[Vintage]

I think the entire point of theogt's OP is that the organization hasn't gone to hell in a hand basket since Parcells left.

That said, I'm sure there are a number of people who think it's just a matter of time.

True.

I don't get it, personally. We upgrade the talent, and yet, its only a matter of time before its doom and gloom. All because we took a calculated risk with Pacman.

Oh well. If they want to rue; let them rue.

I am going to enjoy the ride.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I think Parcells got this organization to focus on football again....got the players to let go of a losing mentality...but let's review.....


Cowboy Pro Bowler from the 2007/2008 season

• Roy Williams - drafted by Jerry
• Andre Gurode - drafted by Jerry
• Leonard Davis - signed by Jerry after Bill left
• Flozell Adams - drafted by Jerry
• Nick Folk - drafted by Jerry in the 6th round and made it as a rookie kicker last year
• Terrell Owens - signed by Jerry in Bill's last year...AGAINST Bills wishes.....but Bill was the one who could not wait to trade Joey Galloway for Keyshawn Johnson..Key was everage in Dallas...Galloway had a career year in Tampa
• Ken Hamlin - signed buy Jerry after Bill Parcells left
• Greg Ellis - drafted by Jerry...made his first Pro Bowl....AFTER Parcells left

• Tony Romo - UNDRAFTED....Cowboys signed him off the street at the urging of Sean Payton because he went to the same school Sean Payton went to...would have been cut if Quincy Carter not flaked out that offseason because Romo was the #4 QB...and teams do NOT carry 4 QBs
• Terrance Newman - Bill Parcellls is on record saying he wanted Dewayne Robertson, who went to the Jets...Terrance Newman made the Pro Bowl for the first time this year..which by the way was the first time he was not being coached by Bill,,,toss up
• Jason Witten - all Parcells
• Marion Barber - all Parcells
• DeMarcus Ware - this was all Jerry. Bill Parcells wanted Marcus Spears at #11. He thought they could get Ware with the other 1st round pick at 20. Had Parcells gotten his way DeMarcus Ware would not even be a Cowboy because he would not have lasted until #20.

Now lets review Parcells first day picks as Cowboy head coach

2003

• 1st round - Terrance Newman...CB.... (see above comments)
• 2nd round - Al Johnson...C....started on year in Dallas...only lasted 3...was average
• 3rd round - Jason Witten...TE..has been a beast

2004
Parcells traded out of the 1st round to pick up 2 1st round picks the following year...passing up on Steven Jackson to draft....

• 2nd round - Julius Jones...had 1 1,000 yard season in Dallas....average
• 2nd round - Jacob Rogers....LT...never played a down for Dallas...actually never played a down for anybody...currently out of football..there were scouts on draft day standing on top of the table screaming for Parcells not to draft this guy...Parcells would not listen becaue Rogers played for a "big time program"
• 3rd round - Stephen Peterman...G....never played a down in Dallas

2005

• 1st round - Demarcus Ware..OLB... (see above comments on who Parcells wanted)
• 1st round - Marcus Spears.....DE....he has 3 career sacks
• 2nd round - Kevin Burnett...LBer....has never started in Dallas
• 3rd round - no pick

2006 (this entire class is looking VERY VERY shaky)

• 1st round...Bobby Carpenter....OLB....has played nothing but special teams in Dallas
• 2nd round...Anthony Fasano...TE...just traded for a 4th round pick on draft day
• 3rd round....Jason Hatcher....DE....is a situational pass rusher...but I think he is gonna be solid

Don't believe everything ESPN tells you...this is the real...like I said, he is respnsible for Witten and Barber...those are great gets...but Parcells drafted more busts than ballers

I like how you left Barber, Canty, and Ratliff of the 05 draft in order to make your point seem much better for ya.

I guess those three (although in another part of the post you at least pay lip service to the fact that Bill got Marion) just magically walked into Dallas by picking themselves. Nice.


I'm no HUGE Bill fan but the idea that he only picked two good players his whole time here is just...well it's stupid.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

As for the original post topic I agree with Theo that Jerry has done quite a good job over the last 2 offseasons without Bill and really began doing a really good job of making this team better the offseason before Bill left by getting TO.

 

[Sarge]

Yay!......

 

[NoLuv4Jerry]

I like how you left Barber, Canty, and Ratliff of the 05 draft in order to make your point seem much better for ya.

I guess those three (although in another part of the post you at least pay lip service to the fact that Bill got Marion) just magically walked into Dallas by picking themselves. Nice.


I'm no HUGE Bill fan but the idea that he only picked two good players his whole time here is just...well it's stupid.

I live in Commanders coutnry...I originally put this together for some Commanders friends of mine who swear without Parcells Dallas will be nothing...I appreciate his contributions....but his NOT THE ONLY reason we are where we are today...and I think we will be just fine without him...I remember the debate that raged on before the start of last season....how nervous some people were about swimming without him.....well SOME of us predicted we would be fine...and hopefully more people now see that we will be fine without him and SHOULD win a Super Bowl without him....he will deserve SOME of the credit...but the mostly lazy media will give him MOST of it...and it would simply be untrue and unfair

 

[dallasfaniac]

I like how you left Barber, Canty, and Ratliff of the 05 draft in order to make your point seem much better for ya.

I guess those three (although in another part of the post you at least pay lip service to the fact that Bill got Marion) just magically walked into Dallas by picking themselves. Nice.


I'm no HUGE Bill fan but the idea that he only picked two good players his whole time here is just...well it's stupid.

He was pointing out Parcell's problems with first day picks, hence none of the three listed. You could always post his record of second day picks to refute.

 

[InmanRoshi]

It's pretty interesting how Parcells was over ruled on some of those quality picks like T-New, DWare, etc. but he couldn't be over ruled on the "busts" or quationable picks like Jacob Rodgers, Carpenter and Fasano. That's a neat trick.

Funny how that works, isn't it?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

:cry2:

Thats the sound I hear coming from this post.

I think you missed the sarcasm

 

[TwentyOne]

Just looking at replacing talent, which is what GMs do.

'07 Offseason

Ken Hamlin replaced Pat Watkins
Leonard Davis replaced Marco Rivera
Nick Folk replaced Gramatica/Vanderjagt
Anthony Spencer replaced Bobby Carpenter

'08 Offseason

Zach Thomas/Bobby Carpenter replace Akin Ayodele
Adam Jones replaces Jacques Reeves
Mike Jenkins replaces Nate Jones
Orlando Scandrick replaces Evan Oglesby
Felix Jones replaces Julius Jones
Martellus Bennett replaces Anthony Fasano

The only move that I can say is a borderline "downgrade" so far is replacing Fasano with Bennett, but obviously the front office doesn't think that's a downgrade at all. Edit: To clarify, long-term I don't think it's a downgrade, but short-term I think it definitely is.

What do you think? Yay or nay? Not too shabby at all, if you ask me.

What i think is Jones has alot of money to play with BP hadn't when he came here.

BTW Anthony didn't replace Carp, Ellis did in the end. But if this draft and offseason pans out (and it depends mainly on Pacman, Felix and Jenkins imo) then i have to say we took alot of risk in FA and even in the draft and we could have had the same result with lower rikst taken but who cares, "not too shabby at all".

 

[Dodger12]

Funny how that works, isn't it?

It must be a coincidence...there's no other explanation for ......