Use TO to his strength's and I promise you this...

[TheDude]

Well..... the majority of informed posters think ridding the team of TO will cure all ills, cut out the cancer or whatever...it strewn across 90% of the threads.....

Any criticism of Garret or Romo is usually combatted with them having to appease TO.

So ...okey dokey.....Which game did TO lose for Dallas in 2008. What play? I listed my reasons for all 7 losses earlier in the thread, but if you think Mr Distraction superceded any of the on the field facts please enlighten

 

[TheDude]

Oh and the "biggest week of distractions" was before the Giants #2 game, which we won.......so, the "distractions" only cause losses before and two weeks after the publicity circus....

okey dokey

 

[Bleu Star]

Dont be confused. At his AGE he is still running(literally running AND stat-wise) with the young'uns. Had his 2nd best year EVER in his 2nd year with us.

Case in point....

1:11 mark...

Enjoy the video which highlights the incredible talent we have at the RB position. Then, at 1:11, watch and holla back at me if you're a "TO has lost a step" guy...

Perhaps Felix lost a step. :laugh2:

(note: after you press play you can hover over the triangle in the bottom right corner and select HQ to watch a high quality feed)
[youtube]foywLi7UzWM[/youtube]

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

1. He never scored a touchdown.

2. I wasnt saying what he did wasnt impressive, but his ankle was never tested as far as him having to burn downfield. He did his work after he had the ball in his hands.

I didnt say he scored a TD.

But for you to point out that his yards were YAC means absolutley nothing.



I dont get the point you attempted to make and how it is valid to anything?

 

[28 Joker]

Terrell Owens is pushing 36, and his YPA has declined 3 of the last 4 seasons, and it just hit a 4 year low and a big dropoff. His numbers (65.8 YPG) reflect it. He can't get off the line on a consistent basis. Most importantly, he didn't beat bracket coverage, after the Packers and Commanders shut him down, like he did in 2007. The 49ers didn't get the memo. Owens is on the down side, and if the Titans can move the ball up and down the field on Baltimore and Pittsburgh with the great Justin Gage as the #1, then the Cowboys can take Roy Williams and throw him 140-150 balls.

If you throw Owens 140-150 balls next year when he can't beat the top corners, you will be out of the playoffs again. Owens' 2.0 YPA against 'red' corners (on an 8 game sample or half Joyner's returns in) is worse than Patrick Crayton's 2.8 YPA in 2007.

When you go from 9.4 YPA against 'red' corners to 2.0 YPA, even in an 8 game sample, you have to look at the player. That can't be all Jason Garrett's fault like Terrell Owens believes and claims in public.

New:

In 2006, Roy Williams put up number 1 WR numbers according to K.C. Joyner. He had 152 balls directed at him, and he finished with 1,363 yards. Williams' YPA was 9.0, and he put up a 7.6 YPA against the "red" corners. Importantly, Williams had 9.5 attempts per game in that 2006 season, a Pro Bowl season. Why is this important?

In 2007, Owens' huge season in Jason Garrett's passing game and play calling, Owens had 9.3 attempts directed at him in 2007, a year he played like a number 1 WR. Owens and Williams got just about the same amount of passes directed at them in their respective seasons.

However, in 2008, Owens had 8.9 passes directed at him, and he didn't come close to playing like a # 1 WR. (see above)

Now, with Phillips vowing to run the ball more, can you afford to give Terrell Owens # 1 WR attempts or opportunities? If you give Williams his 9 attempts per game and Owens his 8-9 attempts a game, Jason Witten's passes or opportunites will suffer. Plus, players like Bennett and Felix Jones lose touches. Witten is an All-Pro tightend. Williams is 27, and he showed he could be a number one guy in 2006. Owens is pushing 36 and is on the downside of his career.

The decline in Owens' play says that he shouldn't be the center of the offense. Do you honestly think he will settle for 4 or 5 chances per game?

No way. He thinks it should all revolve around him.

Go ahead. Throw him 140-150 passes next year and see how many games you win.

 

[DallasEast]

Well..... the majority of informed posters think ridding the team of TO will cure all ills, cut out the cancer or whatever...it strewn across 90% of the threads.....

You've made the mistake of confusing A LOT of discussion centered on Terrell Owens as an indication that the posters involved in those discussions believe that Terrell Owens is THE problem. That is incorrect. The conversations are indicative of Owens being A problem. You're not the only poster who has made that mistake and will most likely not be the last.

Any criticism of Garret or Romo is usually combatted with them having to appease TO.

There is some truth to that based on Terrell Owens interview with Deion Sanders. And no, if you or anyone else does not understand why, I will not explain it to you.

So ...okey dokey.....Which game did TO lose for Dallas in 2008. What play? I listed my reasons for all 7 losses earlier in the thread, but if you think Mr Distraction superceded any of the on the field facts please enlighten

My focal point has never centered upon individual plays. You may wish to query someone with extensive footage of games during the season who has identified such plays.

My beef with Terrell Owens (where are you 5Countem5? Yoooou Whooooo!) is that I do not feel that his presense within the framework of this franchise will be conducive for creating a total team (players and coaches) effort which will help lift this team to a championship. That is an 1) intangible aspect which can not be quantified on any "scale" and 2) is a psychological component of a team's winning personality necessary for carrying a team to a Super Bowl appearance or championship when talent alone cannot accomplish the same goal.

If you would like examples of what I believe hampers the performance of a team, it is this:

As a team, outside influences are always present to distract a team from focusing on its ultimate goal. Focus helps reinforce execution during practice and in games.

Focus aids players to concentrate solely on the jobs they must individually do as a unit (e.g. offense, defense, special teams) to be consistent.

Focus promotes players to put aside individuality and the expectations of self for the greater benefit of the team to win games in the face of injuries to key players, etc.

Focus could potentially cause a quarterback to disregard logically progressing through his reads during any given pass play, and within a split second, subconsciously prompt the quarterback to throw the football to that one player, who agreed to do a totally unnecessary one-on-one televised interview exclaiming that he wasn't getting thrown the ball enough (whoops!).

Focus inspires a coach to utilize his entire offensive unit's resources as often as possible instead of possibly limiting certain players (e.g. your OTHER offensive weapons) getting on the field simply because you keep that one player who believes that he (like his fans) is that special.

Focus is as much a component of winning football as talent, health and even luck.

In my opinion, and that is what it is, an opinion, Terrell Owens always has the capacity to disrupt a team's focus and he cannot stop himself from doing so.

Have fun. 5Countem5 and Bleu Star may wish to steal some of your thunder.

 

[Bleu Star]

Have fun. 5Countem5 and Bleu Star may wish to steal some of your thunder.

Sorry. I didn't read most of that mess. The mere mention of me is what prompted a reply...

Here's your reply --->

 

[DallasEast]

Oh and the "biggest week of distractions" was before the Giants #2 game, which we won.......so, the "distractions" only cause losses before and two weeks after the publicity circus....

okey dokey

ANNNK! Sorry Hans, wrong guess. Would you like to go for Double Jeopardy where the scores can really change???

 

[DallasEast]

Sorry. I didn't read most of that mess. The mere mention of me is what prompted a reply...

Here's your reply --->

STELLA!!!

 

[TheDude]

ANNNK! Sorry Hans, wrong guess. Would you like to go for Double Jeopardy where the scores can really change???

Uhh....righto, chap. The Sunday night game vs the Giants was a win, All 3 were interviewed after the win and said no problems.

So that "distraction" must have fueled that victory? Maybe there needs to be more of those...

No, the arguement is that it festered until the next week and caused the Balt and Philly debacles after beating the the team with the best record in the league.

Don't see how you can have it both ways.

Focus could potentially cause a quarterback to disregard logically progressing through his reads during any given pass play, and within a split second, subconsciously prompt the quarterback to throw the football to that one player, who agreed to do a totally unnecessary one-on-one televised interview exclaiming that he wasn't getting thrown the ball enough (whoops!).

Like being so worried about getting the ball to TO he blindly throws it to Witten at the end of the Pitt game where there was no chance for anyone but Pitt intercepting it. Or like the following series when Crayton is running a crossing route in front of witten, wide open at the 1st down marker and he throws to Witten down the seem when Witten isn't looking....I can see where TO could do that and cause Romo to not focus on Witten...

have you ever played any sport or just Madden. I can see where distractions can come from if your mom or wife are yelling at you in the middle of a play, but the power people are blindly assigning to TO is ludicris.

 

[CF74]

have you ever played any sport or just Madden. I can see where distractions can come from if your mom or wife are yelling at you in the middle of a play, but the power people are blindly assigning to TO is ludicris.

Well played!

 

[DallasEast]

Uhh....righto, chap. The Sunday night game vs the Giants was a win, All 3 were interviewed after the win and said no problems.

So that "distraction" must have fueled that victory? Maybe there needs to be more of those...

No, the arguement is that it festered until the next week and caused the Balt and Philly debacles after beating the the team with the best record in the league.

Don't see how you can have it both ways.

Bold--> All I needed to read.

Like being so worried about getting the ball to TO he blindly throws it to Witten at the end of the Pitt game where there was no chance for anyone but Pitt intercepting it. Or like the following series when Crayton is running a crossing route in front of witten, wide open at the 1st down marker and he throws to Witten down the seem when Witten isn't looking....I can see where TO could do that and cause Romo to not focus on Witten...

have you ever played any sport or just Madden. I can see where distractions can come from if your mom or wife are yelling at you in the middle of a play, but the power people are blindly assigning to TO is ludicris.

Yep. Probably played high school football before you were born.

No one's even remotely suggesting "mind control", but keep up the good work of inferring otherwise.

 

[TheDude]

Terrell Owens is pushing 36, and his YPA has declined 3 of the last 4 seasons, and it just hit a 4 year low and a big dropoff. His numbers (65.8 YPG) reflect it. He can't get off the line on a consistent basis. Most importantly, he didn't beat bracket coverage, after the Packers and Commanders shut him down, like he did in 2007. The 49ers didn't get the memo. Owens is on the down side, and if the Titans can move the ball up and down the field on Baltimore and Pittsburgh with the great Justin Gage as the #1, then the Cowboys can take Roy Williams and throw him 140-150 balls.

If you throw Owens 140-150 balls next year when he can't beat the top corners, you will be out of the playoffs again. Owens' 2.0 YPA against 'red' corners (on an 8 game sample or half Joyner's returns in) is worse than Patrick Crayton's 2.8 YPA in 2007.

When you go from 9.4 YPA against 'red' corners to 2.0 YPA, even in an 8 game sample, you have to look at the player. That can't be all Jason Garrett's fault like Terrell Owens believes and claims in public.

New:

In 2006, Roy Williams put up number 1 WR numbers according to K.C. Joyner. He had 152 balls directed at him, and he finished with 1,363 yards. Williams' YPA was 9.0, and he put up a 7.6 YPA against the "red" corners. Importantly, Williams had 9.5 attempts per game in that 2006 season, a Pro Bowl season. Why is this important?

In 2007, Owens' huge season in Jason Garrett's passing game and play calling, Owens had 9.3 attempts directed at him in 2007, a year he played like a number 1 WR. Owens and Williams got just about the same amount of passes directed at them in their respective seasons.

However, in 2008, Owens had 8.9 passes directed at him, and he didn't come close to playing like a # 1 WR. (see above)

Now, with Phillips vowing to run the ball more, can you afford to give Terrell Owens # 1 WR attempts or opportunities? If you give Williams his 9 attempts per game and Owens his 8-9 attempts a game, Jason Witten's passes or opportunites will suffer. Plus, players like Bennett and Felix Jones lose touches. Witten is an All-Pro tightend. Williams is 27, and he showed he could be a number one guy in 2006. Owens is pushing 36 and is on the downside of his career.

The decline in Owens' play says that he shouldn't be the center of the offense. Do you honestly think he will settle for 4 or 5 chances per game?

No way. He thinks it should all revolve around him.

Go ahead. Throw him 140-150 passes next year and see how many games you win.

OK...Stats

• Clevland (5 for 87, 1 TD) - 1 50 yd+ pass called back from a Kosier holding penalty
• Philly - (3 for 89, 2 TD, 72 long)
• Gnb - (2 for 17) - More on this game in a minute
• Wash - (7 for 71, 1 TD, 2 runs for 11) - TO? Portis>100yds. S Moss burns Newman, Thrash burns Newman, Romo throws 4th qtr pick to Chris Horton (Witten Targeted) while driving for tying/go ahead score.
• Cin (2 for 67, 1 TD, 57 yd long) - Game winner, Romo 14 of 23 for 176
• Arizona (4 for 36) - OT Loss. 2 ST TDs (1 KO return, 1 Blk Punt). Crayton with 55 yd, Barber with a 70 yd TD, Austin w/TD. To doubled all game. Romo sacked 3 times, 3 fumbles 1 lost. Let Warner complete a checkdown on 3rd and 17 in 4th for 21yds to Hightower at their 15yd line for tying score. Az came to play
• StL - (2 for 31yds) - B Johnson 'nuff said
• TB - (5 for 33yds) - B Johnson 'nuff said
• NYG - 5 for 36yds, 1TD) - B Johnson / Bollinger 'nuff said
• Wash - (5 for 38yds) - Romo first game back, threw on awful pick to D Hall (Owens targeted), had one where TO got flat smacked. won game
• SF - (7 for 213, 1 TD, 75 long) - ?
• Sea - (5 for 98yds, 1TD) - ?
• Pitt - (3 for 32 yds, 1 TD) - Bad weather, Romo throws pick 6 for the L (Witten intended - becasue he was worried about Owens feelings he forces to Witten). Romo 1 lost fumble
• NYG - (3 for 38yds). Romo back hurt. A WIN after the biggest drama in Valley Ranch since ..ever.
• Baltimore - (5 for 63yds, 1 TD). Two Romo "punts" to Ed Reed. Flacco takes care of the ball and plays with the lead. D gives up "2" 70 yd TDs to Willis Magahee and Leron McClain....seriously
• Philly (6 for 103). 5 Turnovers. Romo careless Ints

So from the L's, maybe you could assign blame to TO, but I fail to see him being the driving force in any of those losses. The distractions before the Giants game produced a win.

As for the magical GB game, worst game of the year statistically for TO, but the attention devoted to him, left Miles Austin running free. On the First Post to Austin, TO is triple covered (CB, safety, and ILB). Austin runs right past all of them as they laterally move to TOs side. After that, Marion Barber and Felix Jones took over. So sure, TO was double covered and maybe not "off the jam", but that was an 11pt victory that wasn't evven that close.

The Wash "20 targets" game. 7 catches, 2 runs. OK. 2 pt loss. Marion Barber 8 rushes for 26, Felix 0 for 0. The Romo int sealed the loss and that was intended for who? (Witten). So TOs complaints caused that Romo pick I guess. Never mind the games put up by S Moss, Thrash and Portis courtesy of the Defense (Wade not calling)

Arizona flat came to play, Romo got killed thanks to Proctor. Still Crayton has a 55 yd TD and Barber has a 70 yd TD catch. Barber goes 17 for 45 on the ground and Felix gets 3 for 22.

After that, I don't see how any loss is pinned on TO with Johnson and Romo Int/turnovers causing so many points.


As for the interesting yearly stats

2008

• TO - 69 for 1052, 10 TDs, 15.2 YPC (3 Tds over 52 yds)
• Randy Moss - 69 for 1006, 11 TDs, 14.6YPC
• R Wayne - 82 for 1145, 6 TDs, 14.0YPC (No games w/ B Johnson)
• S Moss - 79 for 1044, 6TDs, 13.2YPC
• Brandon Marshall - 104 for 1265, 6TDs, 12.2 YPC (1 game sup, nO games w/ B Johnson)

Only Megatron, L Fitz and Boldin and Moss had more TDs this year (and none played with B Johnson for 3 games)

Taking away the B Johnson games, TO goes 57 for 952 and 9 TDS for 13 games. Assuming those 3 games Romo would have been QB, the projected stats would be 70 catches for 1172yds and 11 TDs and a 16.7YPC.

Of the 100yd receivers, only Megatron, S Smith and V Jackson would have a better YPC.

In 2007, Owens had a YPC of, guess what,....16.7YPC. He also had no TDs longer than 52yds in 2007 (3 in 2008).

So, while YPA may be nice, honestly the accuracy and QB play was not the same as it was last year and Garret did call more deep routes this year, which are lower percentages and exacerbated with inaccuracy. Injuries also played a part in some game planning. And Proctor sucks


I will grant you that TO may be slowing down, but his game and "antics" are about 145,897 on the list of thins that need to be fixed with this team.

 

[1fisher]

Use TO to his strength's and I promise you this.....


the thread title says it all... TO's biggest strength is also his biggest flaw... That's his big mouth!


"OH... but he's misunderstood!" Horse crap!

:laugh2:

 

[TheDude]

Bold--> All I needed to read. Yep. Probably played high school football before you were born.

No one's even remotely suggesting "mind control", but keep up the good work of inferring otherwise.

I figured, since it was a win, it doesn't bolster your arguement

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

Terrell Owens is pushing 36, and his YPA has declined 3 of the last 4 seasons, and it just hit a 4 year low and a big dropoff. His numbers (65.8 YPG) reflect it. He can't get off the line on a consistent basis. Most importantly, he didn't beat bracket coverage, after the Packers and Commanders shut him down, like he did in 2007. The 49ers didn't get the memo. Owens is on the down side, and if the Titans can move the ball up and down the field on Baltimore and Pittsburgh with the great Justin Gage as the #1, then the Cowboys can take Roy Williams and throw him 140-150 balls.

If you throw Owens 140-150 balls next year when he can't beat the top corners, you will be out of the playoffs again. Owens' 2.0 YPA against 'red' corners (on an 8 game sample or half Joyner's returns in) is worse than Patrick Crayton's 2.8 YPA in 2007.

When you go from 9.4 YPA against 'red' corners to 2.0 YPA, even in an 8 game sample, you have to look at the player. That can't be all Jason Garrett's fault like Terrell Owens believes and claims in public.

New:

In 2006, Roy Williams put up number 1 WR numbers according to K.C. Joyner. He had 152 balls directed at him, and he finished with 1,363 yards. Williams' YPA was 9.0, and he put up a 7.6 YPA against the "red" corners. Importantly, Williams had 9.5 attempts per game in that 2006 season, a Pro Bowl season. Why is this important?

In 2007, Owens' huge season in Jason Garrett's passing game and play calling, Owens had 9.3 attempts directed at him in 2007, a year he played like a number 1 WR. Owens and Williams got just about the same amount of passes directed at them in their respective seasons.

However, in 2008, Owens had 8.9 passes directed at him, and he didn't come close to playing like a # 1 WR. (see above)

Now, with Phillips vowing to run the ball more, can you afford to give Terrell Owens # 1 WR attempts or opportunities? If you give Williams his 9 attempts per game and Owens his 8-9 attempts a game, Jason Witten's passes or opportunites will suffer. Plus, players like Bennett and Felix Jones lose touches. Witten is an All-Pro tightend. Williams is 27, and he showed he could be a number one guy in 2006. Owens is pushing 36 and is on the downside of his career.

The decline in Owens' play says that he shouldn't be the center of the offense. Do you honestly think he will settle for 4 or 5 chances per game?

No way. He thinks it should all revolve around him.

Go ahead. Throw him 140-150 passes next year and see how many games you win.

You want to center your argument around TO and his stats for 2008 when the offense was in the crapper for the last 1/4 of the season AND Romo was out for almost another quarter of the season.

You sure you wanna run with that?
And if you do 1.052 yards and 10 TD's with Romo at QB for 13 games is not a bad season.

He sure did miss alot of catches I will grant you that.
But Romo sure did miss alot of throws especially in that last qtr of the season I mentioned.

 

[TheDude]

As I stated, take away the Johnson games and TOs YPC is at 16.7, same as last year's

 

[EPL0c0]

When we win the SB with him... he will say the following first:

1. I want to thank Jerry for the opportunity
2. I want to thank Coach Wade for respecting us and letting us do our thing
3. I want to thank Coach Garrett for drawing up a great offensive game plan
4. I want to thank Tony Romo, "he's my boy"
5. And most of all, "I want to thank the fans of Dallas" - I wanted to help this team win a SB and WE did.

Yes. I believe that.
His comments after victories speak for themselves.

The way Garrett uses Owens is like trying to use a fork to eat soup.

 

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by 41gy#
Terrell Owens is pushing 36, and his YPA has declined 3 of the last 4 seasons, and it just hit a 4 year low and a big dropoff. His numbers (65.8 YPG) reflect it. He can't get off the line on a consistent basis. Most importantly, he didn't beat bracket coverage, after the Packers and Commanders shut him down, like he did in 2007. The 49ers didn't get the memo. Owens is on the down side, and if the Titans can move the ball up and down the field on Baltimore and Pittsburgh with the great Justin Gage as the #1, then the Cowboys can take Roy Williams and throw him 140-150 balls.

If you throw Owens 140-150 balls next year when he can't beat the top corners, you will be out of the playoffs again. Owens' 2.0 YPA against 'red' corners (on an 8 game sample or half Joyner's returns in) is worse than Patrick Crayton's 2.8 YPA in 2007.

When you go from 9.4 YPA against 'red' corners to 2.0 YPA, even in an 8 game sample, you have to look at the player. That can't be all Jason Garrett's fault like Terrell Owens believes and claims in public.

New:

In 2006, Roy Williams put up number 1 WR numbers according to K.C. Joyner. He had 152 balls directed at him, and he finished with 1,363 yards. Williams' YPA was 9.0, and he put up a 7.6 YPA against the "red" corners. Importantly, Williams had 9.5 attempts per game in that 2006 season, a Pro Bowl season. Why is this important?

In 2007, Owens' huge season in Jason Garrett's passing game and play calling, Owens had 9.3 attempts directed at him in 2007, a year he played like a number 1 WR. Owens and Williams got just about the same amount of passes directed at them in their respective seasons.

However, in 2008, Owens had 8.9 passes directed at him, and he didn't come close to playing like a # 1 WR. (see above)

Now, with Phillips vowing to run the ball more, can you afford to give Terrell Owens # 1 WR attempts or opportunities? If you give Williams his 9 attempts per game and Owens his 8-9 attempts a game, Jason Witten's passes or opportunites will suffer. Plus, players like Bennett and Felix Jones lose touches. Witten is an All-Pro tightend. Williams is 27, and he showed he could be a number one guy in 2006. Owens is pushing 36 and is on the downside of his career.

The decline in Owens' play says that he shouldn't be the center of the offense. Do you honestly think he will settle for 4 or 5 chances per game?

No way. He thinks it should all revolve around him.

Go ahead. Throw him 140-150 passes next year and see how many games you win.

NOTE to all:

***This analysis of "red corners" is only using 8 "undisclosed" games. It is incomlete*****

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache...08+terrell+owens+ypa&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us


THe Eagles have 2 "red" corners and Owens had big games against them both times.

If they left out the Nate Clents SF game as well as the Clevland, Sea game then no wonder it was 2.0.

And 3 of 4 declinng YPA years is also misleading:

2004 -- 9.3 - Philly's Super Bowl year;
2005 -- 8.7 -- the Eagles suspend T.O.
2006 -- 8.0 -- T.O. and Todd Haley/Parcells;
2007 -- 9.7
2008 -- 7.5 (14 games)


7.0 is mediocre. He is well above that in every year. You could just as easily spin this as "for the last 4 years, Owens has been at the elite level of WR in the NFL. While always well above the average, his down (by his standards) years included a new team and half a year with Dre Bledsoe followed by 1st year Tony Romo at QB and a year where he had to play 3 games with Brad Johnson who is lucky to throw a hail mary > 2.0 YPA."

How about waiting for the Final SF'09 to come out before quoting cherry picked stats that the author doesn't even know/disclose

 

[LittleBoyBlue]

As I stated, take away the Johnson games and TOs YPC is at 16.7, same as last year's

TO had his 2nd best year if his career for TD's (15) in his 2nd year with Cowboys.
That same year - 3rd best of his career = yardage (1,355).