Vela: Why Anquan Boldin Isn’t Worth A Huge Deal

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

A few months ago, when the Arizona Cardinals were in a contract impasse with WR Larry Fitzgerald, I got a call from a source who wanted to discuss trade packages Dallas might assemble for him. This source has worked in the business a long time and has a very good idea of player value.

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Me? I&#8217;ll wait for Miles Austin to complete his rehab. If he can beat yellow and green corners, and not cost the Cowboys high picks and big money, he&#8217;s the best value.

This can't be right. I was told Boldin was elite and better than Steve Smith.

 

[AdamJT13]

Care to elaborate?

First of all, I don't consider YPA the best measure for grading either cornerbacks or wide receivers. Secondly, I'm pretty sure he didn't remove the head-to-head stats for the players he's grading, so it's a bit of a self-fulfilling metric -- if a wide receiver toasted a particular cornerback several times, it could knock that cornerback down a category or two (from red to yellow or even green). Same cornerback, same receiver, but the head-to-head results change the stat.

 

[WoodysGirl]

Couple of things.

Who the hell offered Miles Austin, Spears and a #1? I never heard that and it would have been stupid.

Boldin and Fitgerald are different receivers. Boldin is much more a possession receiver than Fitzgerald. Fitz is more likely to land big plays on you like TO does to teams.

If you compare Boldin to running backs, he is more like Larry Johnson in the fact that he is a work horse. If you're looking for a home run threat, then Boldin isn't your guy. If you looking for a guy that shows up every day and makes the plays he is supposed to make, then you're looking for a Boldin type receiver.

Now his 4.9 doesn't look good either way you put it, but there isn't a single person that knows anything about football who would say Boldin wasn't a damn good receiver.

I wouldn't have given up a #1, Spears, and Austin for Boldin or Fitzgerald.

Guess you didn't click the link, huh? Jean-Jacques Taylor.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

First of all, I don't consider YPA the best measure for grading either cornerbacks or wide receivers. Secondly, I'm pretty sure he didn't remove the head-to-head stats for the players he's grading, so it's a bit of a self-fulfilling metric -- if a wide receiver toasted a particular cornerback several times, it could knock that cornerback down a category or two (from red to yellow or even green). Same cornerback, same receiver, but the head-to-head results change the stat.

It also doesn't account for double coverages, the quality of the QBs your playing with, the overall talent you play with on offense or the scheme. I think that all of the WRs mentioned in this thread could be very good compliments to our offense, or any offense. I don't know, that's my opnion anyway.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Guess you didn't click the link, huh? Jean-Jacques Taylor.

Well, that explains quite a bit.

 

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

It also doesn't account for double coverages, the quality of the QBs your playing with, the overall talent you play with on offense or the scheme. I think that all of the WRs mentioned in this thread could be very good compliments to our offense, or any offense. I don't know, that's my opnion anyway.

For the money Dallas would pay Boldin or Fitz they shouldn't be seen as compliments at all. That is what they would be playing beside TO though. And when TO retires we will be stuck with a 2nd/3rd tier wr getting paid top dollar. That sounds great!

 

[joseephuss]

Like Alvin Harper? Wonder how he would grade out in this system? And again, I would love to see this applied to college WRs, draw some conclusions about their projected NFL success and see how it turns out after they've been in the league about three or four years.

Alvin Harper didn't pass the simple eye test for a lot of people as being a #1 receiver. Most could see he was the product of the system in Dallas. He benefited greatly from Irvin, Smith, Novacek and Aikman. Tampa for some reason could not see that. Of course they had just gone through 12 straight losing seasons, so they could hardly judge talent.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Alvin Harper didn't pass the simple eye test for a lot of people as being a #1 receiver. Most could see he was the product of the system in Dallas. He benefited greatly from Irvin, Smith, Novacek and Aikman. Tampa for some reason could not see that. Of course they had just gone through 12 straight losing seasons, so they could hardly judge talent.

Tampa didn't see that before they signed him! :laugh2:

 

[joseephuss]

For the money Dallas would pay Boldin or Fitz they shouldn't be seen as compliments at all. That is what they would be playing beside TO though. And when TO retires we will be stuck with a 2nd/3rd tier wr getting paid top dollar. That sounds great!

Boldin and Fitz are not 2nd tier receivers.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

For the money Dallas would pay Boldin or Fitz they shouldn't be seen as compliments at all. That is what they would be playing beside TO though. And when TO retires we will be stuck with a 2nd/3rd tier wr getting paid top dollar. That sounds great!

This is rediculous. Each of these players have produced #1 WR type numbers in there respective careers. To say that if we were lucky enough to sign one of them, they would somehow revert to 2nd or 3rd tier WRs is simply inaccurate.

 

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

Boldin and Fitz are not 2nd tier receivers.

So they are on TO's level? If you say no that makes them 2nd tier! I think they are both 3rd tier to be honest. 2nd tier are the Chad Johnsons and Braylon Edwards of the league.

 

[cowboys2233]

First of all, I don't consider YPA the best measure for grading either cornerbacks or wide receivers. Secondly, I'm pretty sure he didn't remove the head-to-head stats for the players he's grading, so it's a bit of a self-fulfilling metric -- if a wide receiver toasted a particular cornerback several times, it could knock that cornerback down a category or two (from red to yellow or even green). Same cornerback, same receiver, but the head-to-head results change the stat.

If the head-to-head stats knocked down a DB one or two positions on this color scale, you're not dealing with a large enough or diverse enough sample anyway. Removing the head-to-head stats altogether is somewhat heavy-handed, IMO. It might not be worth quite as much because of the self-fulfilling point, but it's worth something. I might weigh it slightly less, but again, a sufficient and diverse sample should generally make that a moot point.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So they are on TO's level? If you say no that makes them 2nd tier! I think they are both 3rd tier to be honest. 2nd tier are the Chad Johnsons and Braylon Edwards of the league.

Your grading scale seems a bit scewed to me but that's fine. It still does not support your statement. You said that if we signed them to the kind of money they want, we would be stuck with a 2nd or 3rd tier WR.

OK, so lets say TO is the top of the heap, which I don't believe he is but that's fine. He's right there at the top. Lets say, just for the sake of discussion, TO is 1st tier. We would be stuck with 2nd or 3rd which, according ot you is Chad Johnson or Braylon Edwards or just a cut below........ yeah, so?


That's still one fine football player. I could live with that in our offense. That's like saying, we shouldn't have paid Mike Irvin because he was no Jerry Rice and so, we would be stuck with him.

 

[I LOVE ME SOME ME!]

Your grading scale seems a bit scewed to me but that's fine. It still does not support your statement. You said that if we signed them to the kind of money they want, we would be stuck with a 2nd or 3rd tier WR.

OK, so lets say TO is the top of the heap, which I don't believe he is but that's fine. He's right there at the top. Lets say, just for the sake of discussion, TO is 1st tier. We would be stuck with 2nd or 3rd which, according ot you is Chad Johnson or Braylon Edwards or just a cut below........ yeah, so?


That's still one fine football player. I could live with that in our offense. That's like saying, we shouldn't have paid Mike Irvin because he was no Jerry Rice and so, we would be stuck with him.

All I'm saying is if we got Fitz we would be getting a talented soft reciever who is one dimensional. Same as we would get if we got Roy Williams. Anquan is a good reciever but he thinks hes worth way more than he is thats all.


And Irvin may not have been better than Rice but he was still on the same level. He commanded double teams and still performed and ran every route you asked him to and then some. The three reciever I am discussing dont have the same qualities.*shrugs*

 

[joseephuss]

All I'm saying is if we got Fitz we would be getting a talented soft reciever who is one dimensional. Same as we would get if we got Roy Williams. Anquan is a good reciever but he thinks hes worth way more than he is thats all.


And Irvin may not have been better than Rice but he was still on the same level. He commanded double teams and still performed and ran every route you asked him to and then some. The three reciever I am discussing dont have the same qualities.*shrugs*

Fitz and Boldin run every route you ask them, too. They see plenty of double teams. Any and every team would be happy to have either guy. It is just the price that is up for debate. Head coaches and offensive coordinators throughout the NFL would love to have receivers like Fitz and Boldin.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

All I'm saying is if we got Fitz we would be getting a talented soft reciever who is one dimensional. Same as we would get if we got Roy Williams. Anquan is a good reciever but he thinks hes worth way more than he is thats all.


And Irvin may not have been better than Rice but he was still on the same level. He commanded double teams and still performed and ran every route you asked him to and then some. The three reciever I am discussing dont have the same qualities.*shrugs*

No, nobody is on the same level as Rice. Rice is the greatest WR in the History of the game, according to most.

Boldin is worth more then what the Cards are paying him. That's true. Williams and Fitz are excellent WRs and either one could stand on there own on any team. They are not soft IMO. They both produce and both command double coverage. We don't agree.

 

[kevwun]

TO is a hall of fame receiver. 98&#37; of receivers in the NFL aren't at his level. Should we have let Marion Barber leave as a free agent because he's not as good as Emmitt Smith?

 

[YosemiteSam]

TO is a hall of fame receiver. 98% of receivers in the NFL aren't at his level. Should we have let Marion Barber leave as a free agent because he's not as good as Emmitt Smith?

We should have let Emmitt Smith leave because he wasn't as good as Barry Sanders! :laugh2:

 

[alby]

If we don't have enough weapons on offense as currently assembled, I don't know if any team does.

underrated post.

 

[dbair1967]

Id do this deal, maybe even w/o the 3rd as well

if we didnt have TO, I might agree...but considering we do have TO and Boldin isnt going to put up numbers much better than Crayton did last yr in our offense, it isnt worth it. Especially with Spears being far and away the best DL in preseason

There's only so many balls to go around...Owens is gonna get his 80-90 catches...Witten is gonna get his 80-90 catches or so...Crayton got 50 last yr...what do you reasonably expect Boldin is gonna do here? 60 catches? He is not a deep threat, so he isnt going to stretch the field anymore than Caryton does. You gotta give up a ton to get the guy, plus you have to be willing to pay him a mega deal. It isnt worth it unless we lost Owens or Witten.

David