Very serious question about Tony Romo heading into the 2009 season

[CaptainAmerica]

Big Ben was in the AFC Championship game as a rookie QB and if I remember correctly he led his team to the #1 seed in the playoffs. That is on a team that just picked 11th in the previous draft. That's pretty impressive to me.

It's the ultimate homer to even try and make the argument that Romo is better than Big Ben. I love the Cowboys and hate the Steelers but that's ridiculous.

 

[Doomsday101]

Except that he made play after play in three straight road games to get them into that position. Ever see Bob Griese's stats from SB 7? Just as anemic, but something tells me he cares not a lick.

Because the SB is a team accomplishment it is not an individual accomplishment. It is not about the stats but it is also not just about the QB.

 

[ScipioCowboy]

It's almost as if, in the minds of some, Tony Romo and Ben Roethlisberger exist in vacuums. And if we could only put Roethlisberger on the Cowboys and Romo on the Steelers, the current fortunes of the two teams would somehow be flipped.

I seriously doubt it. I don't think Romo is better than Roethlisberger, but I wouldn't take Roethlisberger over Romo either.

Roethlisberger plays in an offense that emphasizes ball control and the run, and benefits from a defense that constantly ranks among the top five teams in the league in total yards and points allowed. Conversely, Romo plays in an offense with one of the most skewed run/pass ratios in the league, and his defense was ranked 20th in scoring last season and became highly porous at the most inopportune times.

Last season, it was pointed out on several occasions that Steelers tended to lose games in which Roethlisberger was forced to pass 30 or more times. Throughout Romo's career, he's averaged 33 pass attempt per game, which is ridiculous when we consider the vertical nature of the offense.

A common refrain among several posters on this board is that "the Cowboys have top 5 talent." This is an interesting assessment because, before Romo came along, no one believed the Cowboys had top 5 talent.

 

[DFWJC]

I think sometimes we need to remember that in both of Romo's (and more importantly, Dallas') playoff loses he did drive his team down for what could have been a win.

In Seattle he had a nice drive to set up the field goal...too bad he was the holder too. lol

Vs. the Giants he also drove down for the win and even threw the ball in right place...but Crayton did not follow through.

He could very very easily have been 2-0 and then maybe more after that. It can be a game of inches and to say someone is leader or not a leader (or even a choker) is lunacy based on those plays.

BTW, I also think leading your team to divison championship and a playoff bye should count as something. Otherwise you could say play worse and have to play a wildcard game vs and easier team than the eventual SB champs...then maybe you get a win on your resume. lol

 

[Hostile]

HoS did. TO was a negative influence Garrett couldn't run certain plays because it wouldn't please TO. Romo had to focus on TO otherwise he'd be unhappy that's why he forced him the ball. He was a locker room cancer so on and so forth.

Uh, no I didn't.

You either need to learn how to read or learn the game.

 

[LandryFan]

Fair enough.

I happen to be one of those Cowboys fans who believes Romo will ultimately get it done. He has the talent, but I think he has to learn how to manage a game, not feel he has to make every play, every down.

But I think this year we'll see a more mature quarterback.

No, Romo has not been perfect. Nor, has he been bad. Every QB goes through a maturation process, and Tony is going through his. People just need to try to be patient. Personally, I feel he has done extremely well for his circumstances, and he will get better. Will the Cowboys, as a team, get better? We shall see...

 

[Dodger]

Here you go...

Would you say this is a make or break year for Tony meaning that he has to play a huge role in helping the Cowboys win their first playoff game since 1997?

As I said, this didn't spell out the definition of success for me. If that's what you got from it, good for you.

Right.....

Because the QB, who touches the ball on every offensive play and has to make the decision on what to do with on many of those plays, has the same level of responsibility as these guys do.



Who would you rather we have to replace in a worst case scenario?

Witten, Ware or Romo?

Oh...I see. So because the QB touches the ball the most, they can be successful if they win a playoff game, but a LB or TE can't.

Hmm...

Why does everything have to be so black and white here.

It's either Romo sucks or Romo is a god....

The fact is Romo is somewhere between sucks and a god and to think he doesn't need to improve any aspect of his game is naive.

If we could get the officials on our side then he could pull a Rothlesburger and stumble his way to a ring but we all know that ain't gonna happen to the Cowboys.

Ask the original poster. He's the one who said that either Romo has a "huge" year or he's not successful. That sounds pretty black and white to me. All the rest of us are doing is stating that that claim is ridiculous.

 

[CowboyWay]

I think sometimes we need to remember that in both of Romo's (and more importantly, Dallas') playoff loses he did drive his team down for what could have been a win.

In Seattle he had a nice drive to set up the field goal...too bad he was the holder too. lol

Vs. the Giants he also drove down for the win and even threw the ball in right place...but Crayton did not follow through.

He could very very easily have been 2-0 and then maybe more after that. It can be a game of inches and to say someone is leader or not a leader (or even a choker) is lunacy based on those plays.

BTW, I also think leading your team to divison championship and a playoff bye should count as something. Otherwise you could say play worse and have to play a wildcard game vs and easier team than the eventual SB champs...then maybe you get a win on your resume. lol

These are outstanding points. And points that the media, and fans need to really have a better grasp of.

In the seattle game, Romo played very well. Had he not muffled the hold, or if Grammatica would have thrown even a shoulder to block the defender, Romo probably scores.

The Giants game he played very well too. Go look at all the tape of the Giants playoff run, and tell me which qb played the best under that pressure the Giants were putting on qb's. It wasn't Favre, it wasn't Tom Brady. It was Tony Romo. Strahan even said that the Cowboys were the toughest team they played in the playoffs.
If Crayton catches that pass over the middle, or doesn't give up on that route in the endzone, we win that game.

If we win just one of those games, the "romo can't win in the playoffs" talk is non existent.

And the funny thing is, Romo knows it, everyone in the Cowboys organization knows it, and I'm betting everyone in the NFL knows it.

The point being is that Romo has played very well in the playoffs. But because we didn't win, he gets the blame. Its ridiculous. Football games are usually won or lost on a couple key plays per game. Sometimes they go your way, sometimes they don't. But to lay it at the hands of Romo, or any quarterback, is really just ridiculous. Championship runs are done by teams, not quarterbacks. Go ask Trent Dilfer.

 

[adzrne7]

Romo is a very good QB in terms of putting up stats. However when it comes down to crunch time in December he doesn't step his game up. He makes the same mistakes as he did in September. Everyone else plays harder and smarter, he is the same. He also needs to be a better leader off the field. Great leaders don't say the things he said last year, don't have me get out Romo's quotes it's painful listening to things he says sometimes.

Until Romo learns that he needs to play smarter in December he will always be a very good QB who puts up stats but can't win when it matters.

 

[Gemini Dolly]

yep, romo needs to cut down on his turnovers, no more "punting" and needs to learn that throwing it away to live another down is not a bad thing. If he can do that, good things will happen. Of course everyone else has to do their job as well.

 

[stilltheguru]

Big Ben was in the AFC Championship game as a rookie QB and if I remember correctly he led his team to the #1 seed in the playoffs. That is on a team that just picked 11th in the previous draft. That's pretty impressive to me.

It's the ultimate homer to even try and make the argument that Romo is better than Big Ben. I love the Cowboys and hate the Steelers but that's ridiculous.

It is quite hilarious the Romo obsession on this board even with the obvious evidence against him.

 

[DeaconBlues]

In payton's defense he was always heading in the right direction. Even though he was winless in the playoffs he was not faling apart in December. And in all honesty I don't want to compare Romo to Peyton Manning or Brady or Mcnabb.

Give me someone else like Rivers or Brees

So, unless we give you someone who fits your perception of reality, we're not to mention them, so you don't have to defend you defenseless point?

Gotcha. :laugh1:

 

[Four]

He also needs to be a better leader off the field. Great leaders don't say the things he said last year, don't have me get out Romo's quotes it's painful listening to things he says sometimes.

I am sorry but I would rather the QB have his head on right than to think losing a football game is the end of the world.

Fans have been over reacting to his comments since he made them, it's foolish to equate him having his priorities right in life with a flippant attitude.

No one on the team doubts his competitive nature, and I sure as heck don't just because he said there are other things that matter more than football. I applaud the kid for having something figured out than many people don't seem to.

 

[StylisticS]

It is quite hilarious the Romo obsession on this board even with the obvious evidence against him.

Even though you forget the fact that Ben had a hof running back and a great defense with an established coaching staff. But clearly the evidence is against Romo. I know one thing, I wouldn't switch Romo for Ben. I do know that.

 

[bbgun]

Even though you forget the fact that Ben had a hof running back and a great defense with an established coaching staff. But clearly the evidence is against Romo. I know one thing, I wouldn't switch Romo for Ben. I do know that.

Neither would Steeler fans, I reckon. And they'd have greater justification.

 

[StylisticS]

Neither would Steeler fans, I reckon. And they'd have greater justification.

Point taken. But I was saying that the team, not just Big Ben, is the reason why he succeeded. I think Big Ben has improved greatly over the past 3 years. But he's not the only reason they win. Afterall, this is football which is known as the ultimate team sport.

 

[bbgun]

Point taken. But I was saying that the team, not just Big Ben, is the reason why he succeeded. I think Big Ben has improved greatly over the past 3 years. But he's not the only reason they win. Afterall, this is football which is known as the ultimate team sport.

True, but it's not like Tony is surrounded by pikers, especially on offense. And his defense made Ben and co. look impotent for 3+ quarters.

 

[jswalker1981]

How in the world can anyone say Romo is better than Rothlisberger? That guy has been to and won 2 SBs and been to 3 AFC Championship games in 4 years of play. He drove his team to a SB win in the last 2 minutes of the game. Something the great Tom Brady hasn't even done.

I would take Big Ben over just about any QB in the league. The guy is a flat out stud and a winner!

Really? Tom Brady has never led his team back in the last two minutes to win a Super Bowl? I beg to differ:

Super Bowl XXXVI, St. Louis Rams vs New England Patriots, 20-17

4th Quarter
St. Louis Rams at 01:51
1-10-STL 45 (1:51) (Shotgun) K.Warner pass to A.Hakim pushed ob at NE 37 for 18 yards (L.Milloy). Pass 3, Run 15
1-10-NE 37 (1:42) K.Warner pass to Y.Murphy ran ob at NE 26 for 11 yards (T.Law). Pass 0, Run 11
1-10-NE 26 (1:37) K.Warner pass to R.Proehl for 26 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Pass 11, Run 16
J.Wilkins extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Robinson, Holder-R.Proehl.

SCORE: 17-17

New England Patriots at 01:30
J.Wilkins kicks 68 yards from STL 30 to NE 2. T.Brown to NE 17 for 15 yards (S.Moran).
1-10-NE 17 (1:21) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to J.Redmond to NE 22 for 5 yards (D.Bly, L.Fletcher). Pass 3, Run 2
2-5-NE 22 57) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to J.Redmond to NE 30 for 8 yards (A.Williams, T.Polley). Pass 3, Run 5
1-10-NE 30 41) T.Brady pass incomplete.
2-10-NE 30 41) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to J.Redmond pushed ob at NE 41 for 11 yards (T.Polley, K.Herring). Pass 0, Run 11
1-10-NE 41 33) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete.
2-10-NE 41 29) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to T.Brown ran ob at STL 36 for 23 yards (A.Archuleta). Pass 14, Run 9
1-10-STL 36 21) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to J.Wiggins to STL 30 for 6 yards (D.McCleon, L.Little). Pass 1, Run 5
2-4-STL 30 07) T.Brady pass incomplete.
3-4-STL 30 07) A.Vinatieri 48 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-L.Paxton, Holder-K.Walter.

FINAL SCORE: NE 20, STL 17

Super Bowl XXXVIII, Carolina Panthers vs New England Patriots, 32-29

4th Quarter
Carolina Panthers at 02:51
A.Vinatieri kicks 70 yards from NE 30 to CAR 0. S.Smith ran ob at CAR 37 for 37 yards (A.Vinatieri). PENALTY on CAR-L.Towns, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CAR 30.
1-10-CAR 20 (2:43) J.Delhomme pass to D.Foster to CAR 29 for 9 yards (T.Law).
2-1-CAR 29 (2:19) (Shotgun) D.Foster up the middle to CAR 36 for 7 yards (R.Harrison).
1-10-CAR 36 (2:01) (Shotgun) J.Delhomme pass to M.Muhammad pushed ob at NE 45 for 19 yards (R.Harrison).
Two-Minute Warning
1-10-NE 45 (1:56) J.Delhomme pass to R.Proehl to NE 14 for 31 yards (S.Mayer). (9 yards after catch.)
Timeout #1 by CAR at 01:43.
1-10-NE 14 (1:43) J.Delhomme pass incomplete to M.Muhammad (C.Akins).
2-10-NE 14 (1:38) J.Delhomme pass to K.Mangum to NE 12 for 2 yards (T.Law).
3-8-NE 12 (1:13) (Shotgun) J.Delhomme pass to R.Proehl for 12 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
J.Kasay extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Kyle, Holder-T.Sauerbrun.

SCORE: 29-29

New England Patriots at 01:08
J.Kasay kicks 52 yards from CAR 30 to NE 18, out of bounds.
1-10-NE 40 (1:08) T.Brady pass incomplete to D.Branch.
2-10-NE 40 (1:04) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to T.Brown to CAR 47 for 13 yards (M.Minter; R.Manning).
Timeout #1 by NE at 00:51.
1-10-CAR 47 51) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to T.Brown to CAR 27 for 20 yards (T.Cousin). PENALTY on NE-T.Brown, Offensive Pass Interference, 10 yards, enforced at CAR 47 - No Play.
1-20-NE 43 44) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to T.Brown to CAR 44 for 13 yards (T.Cousin; W.Witherspoon).
2-7-CAR 44 20) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to D.Graham to CAR 40 for 4 yards (M.Minter).
Timeout #2 by NE at 00:14.
3-3-CAR 40 14) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to D.Branch to CAR 23 for 17 yards (M.Minter).
Timeout #3 by NE at 00:09.
Timeout #2 by CAR at 00:09.
1-10-CAR 23 09) A.Vinatieri 41 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-B.Kinchen, Holder-K.Walter.

SCORE: 32-29

Carolina Panthers at 00:04
A.Vinatieri kicks 68 yards from NE 30 to CAR 2. R.Smart to CAR 22 for 20 yards (M.Chatham).
END GAME

FINAL SCORE: NE 32, CAR 29

But I guess that getting your team in position for last-second Super Bowl-winning field goals don't count as "driving his team to a Super Bowl win in the last two minutes".

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Really? Tom Brady has never led his team back in the last two minutes to win a Super Bowl? I beg to differ:

Super Bowl XXXVI, St. Louis Rams vs New England Patriots, 20-17

4th Quarter
St. Louis Rams at 01:51
1-10-STL 45 (1:51) (Shotgun) K.Warner pass to A.Hakim pushed ob at NE 37 for 18 yards (L.Milloy). Pass 3, Run 15
1-10-NE 37 (1:42) K.Warner pass to Y.Murphy ran ob at NE 26 for 11 yards (T.Law). Pass 0, Run 11
1-10-NE 26 (1:37) K.Warner pass to R.Proehl for 26 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Pass 11, Run 16
J.Wilkins extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Robinson, Holder-R.Proehl.

SCORE: 17-17

New England Patriots at 01:30
J.Wilkins kicks 68 yards from STL 30 to NE 2. T.Brown to NE 17 for 15 yards (S.Moran).
1-10-NE 17 (1:21) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to J.Redmond to NE 22 for 5 yards (D.Bly, L.Fletcher). Pass 3, Run 2
2-5-NE 22 57) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to J.Redmond to NE 30 for 8 yards (A.Williams, T.Polley). Pass 3, Run 5
1-10-NE 30 41) T.Brady pass incomplete.
2-10-NE 30 41) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to J.Redmond pushed ob at NE 41 for 11 yards (T.Polley, K.Herring). Pass 0, Run 11
1-10-NE 41 33) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass incomplete.
2-10-NE 41 29) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to T.Brown ran ob at STL 36 for 23 yards (A.Archuleta). Pass 14, Run 9
1-10-STL 36 21) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to J.Wiggins to STL 30 for 6 yards (D.McCleon, L.Little). Pass 1, Run 5
2-4-STL 30 07) T.Brady pass incomplete.
3-4-STL 30 07) A.Vinatieri 48 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-L.Paxton, Holder-K.Walter.

FINAL SCORE: NE 20, STL 17

Super Bowl XXXVIII, Carolina Panthers vs New England Patriots, 32-29

4th Quarter
Carolina Panthers at 02:51
A.Vinatieri kicks 70 yards from NE 30 to CAR 0. S.Smith ran ob at CAR 37 for 37 yards (A.Vinatieri). PENALTY on CAR-L.Towns, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at CAR 30.
1-10-CAR 20 (2:43) J.Delhomme pass to D.Foster to CAR 29 for 9 yards (T.Law).
2-1-CAR 29 (2:19) (Shotgun) D.Foster up the middle to CAR 36 for 7 yards (R.Harrison).
1-10-CAR 36 (2:01) (Shotgun) J.Delhomme pass to M.Muhammad pushed ob at NE 45 for 19 yards (R.Harrison).
Two-Minute Warning
1-10-NE 45 (1:56) J.Delhomme pass to R.Proehl to NE 14 for 31 yards (S.Mayer). (9 yards after catch.)
Timeout #1 by CAR at 01:43.
1-10-NE 14 (1:43) J.Delhomme pass incomplete to M.Muhammad (C.Akins).
2-10-NE 14 (1:38) J.Delhomme pass to K.Mangum to NE 12 for 2 yards (T.Law).
3-8-NE 12 (1:13) (Shotgun) J.Delhomme pass to R.Proehl for 12 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
J.Kasay extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Kyle, Holder-T.Sauerbrun.

SCORE: 29-29

New England Patriots at 01:08
J.Kasay kicks 52 yards from CAR 30 to NE 18, out of bounds.
1-10-NE 40 (1:08) T.Brady pass incomplete to D.Branch.
2-10-NE 40 (1:04) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to T.Brown to CAR 47 for 13 yards (M.Minter; R.Manning).
Timeout #1 by NE at 00:51.
1-10-CAR 47 51) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to T.Brown to CAR 27 for 20 yards (T.Cousin). PENALTY on NE-T.Brown, Offensive Pass Interference, 10 yards, enforced at CAR 47 - No Play.
1-20-NE 43 44) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to T.Brown to CAR 44 for 13 yards (T.Cousin; W.Witherspoon).
2-7-CAR 44 20) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to D.Graham to CAR 40 for 4 yards (M.Minter).
Timeout #2 by NE at 00:14.
3-3-CAR 40 14) (Shotgun) T.Brady pass to D.Branch to CAR 23 for 17 yards (M.Minter).
Timeout #3 by NE at 00:09.
Timeout #2 by CAR at 00:09.
1-10-CAR 23 09) A.Vinatieri 41 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-B.Kinchen, Holder-K.Walter.

SCORE: 32-29

Carolina Panthers at 00:04
A.Vinatieri kicks 68 yards from NE 30 to CAR 2. R.Smart to CAR 22 for 20 yards (M.Chatham).
END GAME

FINAL SCORE: NE 32, CAR 29

But I guess that getting your team in position for last-second Super Bowl-winning field goals don't count as "driving his team to a Super Bowl win in the last two minutes".

That took a lot of work. I'm guessing you didn't have those stats at your fingertips.

Everyone knows Brady won those 2 SBs with last minute drives. My point was Big Ben did it with his team losing the game. Brady's teams were tied. Not many QBs besides Joe Montana and Eli Manning have won SBs with last minute 80+ yard drives for TDs (not FGs).

I simply overlooked making that distinction with Brady. Sorry. It obviously struck a nerve with you. My point was Big Ben has done something even Brady hasn't done. That isn't a knock on Brady by any means nor does it mean I think Ben is better than Brady. Simply a statement of fact.

 

[DallasDomination]

This is a huge season for Romo no doubt. poeple can brush it off and act like everything is fine, but reality is this year he has to show that he can lead this team in the playoffs. If He fails to show that consistant play during the season and clutchness in the playoffs, He will be on THIN ICE next year.