Vick Indicted

[Doomsday101]

I don't think that is correct. Pacman was never going to be on trial for his offenses. At least a jury trial. It was all handled by a judge and that process had already started before Goodell handed down the suspensions. His cases weren't finished, but Pacman and his attorney's had started the process. Plus those cases were secondary to the punishment of Pacman not reporting his arrests. It didn't matter how those cases ended. He could be free and clear or sentenced to 20 years. He did not report them and that made it possible for him to be punished. Goodell was also careful not to include any mention of the Las Vegas incident, which had not started any formal actions against Pacman.

Just mentioned what was being reported.

 

[cobra]

He wasn't charged with [gambling] in the federal case.

That's wrong. Did you read the indictment? Do you know what statutes he is being charged under?

Read page 2 of the indictment, four lines down:

"a business enterprise involving gambling in violation of Virginia Code Annotated Sections 3.1-796.124(A)(2), 18.2-326, and 18.2-328, and thereafter performing and attempting to perform acts to commit any crime of violence to further any unlawful activity and to promote, manage, establish, and carry on, and to facilitate the promotion, management, establishment, and carrying on of the unlawful activity, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1952;"

I guess you'd have to be trained in the law to fully understand how this is racketeering under the RICO statute and its multifarious definitions, but I don't think you have to have a law degree to understand that he is being charged with gambling on illegal activities since the word gambling is right there on the page.

 

[AtlCB]

I find the defecadent Michael Vick guilty as indicted!

And if this dog torturer starts the first game of Atlanta's season, I look foward to legions of fans throwing dog biscuits out in the field. (Biodegradable, biscuits, of course. I don't want no real littering, ahem.)

You can bet New Orleans, Carolina, and Tampa will have a few surprises for him when he plays there. They will be playing dog songs at the stadium (like Who Let the Dogs Out), large foam dog biscuit, and some crude signs.

 

[Doomsday101]

You can bet New Orleans, Carolina, and Tampa will have a few surprises for him when he plays there. They will be playing dog songs at the stadium (like Who Let the Dogs Out), large foam dog biscuit, and some crude signs.

Too bad they don't play Cleveland and face the dog pound. :laugh1:

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Too bad they don't play Cleveland and face the dog pound. :laugh1:

They need one of these icons that kicks it's feet up in the air, while rolling on the ground laughing.

 

[AtlCB]

Too bad they don't play Cleveland and face the dog pound. :laugh1:

 

[InmanRoshi]

I have a feeling that Vick is pretty much toast. It's true that indictments are rather easy to obtain, but just reading some of the indictment information, it looks like several people involved have already flipped (secret nicknames, detailed methods of torturing and disposing of the dogs). As ABQ said, I doubt the FBI are going after the guy who maintained day to day operations ... they want the ringleader who financed and established it, and that's apparently Vick. I'm sure they made it abundantly clear in their interrogations of the small guys that they could get off rather easily if they gave up the big guy.

It's one thing to put an animal down for your own basic needs or to end their misery, but when you're electrocuting them or slamming them down on the ground repeatedly for your own entertainment ... that takes a certain amount of evil.

 

[Doomsday101]

They need one of these icons that kicks it's feet up in the air, while rolling on the ground laughing.

Those guys scare me because I'm not sure all of them are wearing mask, I think some of them that is just their real face. Not to mention they bark at you and throw their chew bones at you.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Those guys scare me because I'm not sure all of them are wearing mask, I think some of them that is just their real face. Not to mention they bark at you and throw their chew bones at you.

Eventually, somebody is bound to lose an eye.

 

[silverbear]

Why would you be mad at a poster who states his opinion? I find that odd.

C'mon, you've been around long enough to know that sometimes, people get pissed at each other on these boards... I was just telling you that's not the case here...

What I find even more odd is this entire portion of your post. Why would you even include the above statements? You feel the need to not insult me but yet you continue on with it. You can't rob and beat the Pope, then say "sorry 'bout that big guy. ."

I felt called on to make a point I had a hunch you'd find offensive, and was more or less apologizing for it in advance... you weren't being ignorant or anything like that...

However, the claim of Culpepper being a huge upgrade over Harrington is a quantum leap in itself.

I stand by what I said... as we say in sports arguments, Joey Harrington couldn't carry Daunte Culpepper's jock... to me, that's so crystal clear that it merited the borderline insulting comments I made...

Player A has a 98.8 quarterback rating for his career, player B has a 68.1...

Player A has completed 64.2 per cent of his passes for his career, player B has completed 55.2 per cent...

Player A has a 7.7 yards per attempt average for his career, player B has a 5.7 yards per attempt...

Player A has thrown 137 TDs for his career, to 89 ints... player B has thrown 72 TDs to 77 ints...

Which quarterback is the demonstrably superior player??

And before you go to arguing that Culpepper played for better teams, look at their numbers last year, when both had turns leading the same team:

QBR-- Culpepper 77.0, Harrington 68.2...
Completion percentage-- Culpepper 60.4, Harrington 55.2...
Yards per attempt-- Culpepper 6.93, Harrington 5.76...
TDs to ints ratio-- Culpepper 2/3, Harrington 12/15...

Even when they played for the same team, a less than 100 per cent Daunte Culpepper outplayed Joey Harrington...

The numbers don't lie...

It's too bad he wouldn't consider a backup role to Romo. That's all he is.

His numbers dispute that assertion... I'd be real interested to see what he could do with a team if he a) was healthy again, and b) actually had a solid running game to take some of the heat off of him...

 

[Doomsday101]

Eventually, somebody is bound to lose an eye.

I'm afraid they may bury someone, you know how them dogs love to bury things. :laugh1:
I have never been to Cleveland for a game but the rumor is the mark their territory

 

[silverbear]

and ray lewis was charged with murder... and jamal lewis was charged with drug distribution... how did those turn out?

Again, were they tried in federal court??

That's the point that folks are making in this thread, that it's much more serious when it's the feds coming after you... they don't play, and they don't often lose...

 

[fortdick]

my money says he is never convicted... an indictment means nothing. i'm a defense attorney and can tell you numerous examples of clients i have had that have been indicted but never convicted. The old saying is that the government could get a ham sandwich indicted if they wanted to. its completely one sided with no cross examination or favorable evidence presented. mark it down- he walks.

If you are a defense attorney, you will know that the feds don't press charges unless they are certain of a conviction. This isn't some poh-dunk county DA looking to make a name for himself, this is the US government. They mean business.

US Attorneys hate to lose. I have seen a Federal Grand Jury aks for an indictment against someone, only to have the AG's office refuse because they did not feel the case was a slam dunk. They aren't elected, so they don't have the same pressures as state or county prosecutors.

 

[jackrussell]

Dog fighting only hurt the dogs.

This is not true in the least...and has been documented here several times by several different posters, with direct links to law enforcement and animal protection services giving the entire scope of things that dog fighting entails.

Now if you didn't know it...fine..a little research will enlighten you.

But let's just say the dogs are the only victims here as you mistakingly say....that alone is enough to despise anyone that participates in such activities...at least to those of us that have a conscience and value life.

And if someone abuses a dog in my presence....the dogs wouldn't be the only thing hurt.

 

[peplaw06]

He's facing the "rocket docket" in Richmond so it wouldn't surprise me to see this go to trial by September and the government has a 90+% conviction rate in that court so prison is likely, especially with at least four corroberating witnesses and at least one undercover law enforcement agent who can place him at the scene of a dog fight.

This "rocket docket" stuff is interesting, but I really can't see this being at trial in 6-10 weeks.

Some of the ESPN legal guys were saying that he'll probably be in court in 4-6 months. Whatever high priced attorney he hires is going to try to buy time with numerous pre-trial motions so Vick can play this season. I tend to think that even 4-6 months is optimistic for a federal court, even the "rocket docket." 6 months from now football season will be over.

 

[peplaw06]

That's wrong. Did you read the indictment? Do you know what statutes he is being charged under?

Read page 2 of the indictment, four lines down:

"a business enterprise involving gambling in violation of Virginia Code Annotated Sections 3.1-796.124(A)(2), 18.2-326, and 18.2-328, and thereafter performing and attempting to perform acts to commit any crime of violence to further any unlawful activity and to promote, manage, establish, and carry on, and to facilitate the promotion, management, establishment, and carrying on of the unlawful activity, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 1952;"

I guess you'd have to be trained in the law to fully understand how this is racketeering under the RICO statute and its multifarious definitions, but I don't think you have to have a law degree to understand that he is being charged with gambling on illegal activities since the word gambling is right there on the page.

Also Cobra, as I think you said earlier, there is a possibility of more indictments to come. If a RICO charge is in doubt from reading the indictment, it doesn't mean that it's not coming.

And I have to give burm some credit... he mentioned that there could an unindicted co-conspirator who is giving the feds information. This indictment, and it's detail, lends more credence to that idea. That could lead to a lot of hearsay being admitted at trial.

I don't think there's any question the feds are going after Vick. He seems to be the "boss," for lack of a better term. He fronts the money, buys the property, delegates when he can to try to lay low, but without him the operation wouldn't exist.

 

[silverbear]

If Vick is found guilty then I will condemn him, but at this point I won't.

Nope, instead you're gonna defend him...

One of my coworkers put it best. If you take a step back and take the emotion out of it; when it comes down to it, its only dog fighting.

See what I mean??

"Only" dog fighting?? I guess you don't know that there's gambling, drugs and illegal guns at virtually every dog fight...

Chances are even if he gets convicted he pays a fine and that is it.

If he gets convicted, he's doing jail time... count on it...

 

[cobra]

This "rocket docket" stuff is interesting, but I really can't see this being at trial in 6-10 weeks.

Some of the ESPN legal guys were saying that he'll probably be in court in 4-6 months. Whatever high priced attorney he hires is going to try to buy time with numerous pre-trial motions so Vick can play this season. I tend to think that even 4-6 months is optimistic for a federal court, even the "rocket docket." 6 months from now football season will be over.

I don't know exactly how it runs in Richmond, but here in Texas, we have the rocket docket in the Eastern District which means they try to get all cases to trial within a year from the date of filing.

I don't think there is any chance this sees a court room before Thanksgiving, and I would bet that it won't be until early next year. But I don't practice in VA, so maybe their rocket docket is faster than the one here.

 

[silverbear]

ESPN Chris Mortenson said after talking to some league officals that because guys like Pacman and Tank had past history of problem the league was not going to give the benifet of the doubt thus punishment was handed down quick. In this case they are keeping a close eye and may hold off until more information comes forward.

AFter assuring us that Vick was NOT gonna be indicted, you might want to find a more credible source to cite than Mort... on this issue, he's blown whatever credibility he might have had...

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't know exactly how it runs in Richmond, but here in Texas, we have the rocket docket in the Eastern District which means they try to get all cases to trial within a year from the date of filing.

I don't think there is any chance this sees a court room before Thanksgiving, and I would bet that it won't be until early next year. But I don't practice in VA, so maybe their rocket docket is faster than the one here.

It's reputed to be the quickest in the nation. I don't know what that means but that's what was reported earlier on ESPN. Avergaging 4 to 6 months I think they said.