Vick Indicted

[Stash]

Ehh...I doubt he faces any jail time.

I'll take that bet!

:shake:

 

[Bob Sacamano]

WOOHOO Vick's going DOWN!

 

[5Stars]

I'll take that bet!

:shake:

I'll take that bet. One dollar that Vick don't see no time?

 

[03EBZ06]

Ehh...I doubt he faces any jail time.

Perhaps but then many people thought he would never get indicted as well.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

If he is found guilty, then of course he deserves to be suspended. Dog fighting, cock fighting etc are disgusting. However, just being indicted is not enough.

Simply saying the NFL can do what it wants is ridiculous as the NFLPA would slap a grievance on the NFL faster than anything and rightfully so in my view.

 

[Dallas]

Not that fighting to the death isn't bad enough... But how do they electrocute these dogs that don't test well?

Not sure I want to know -- but that just seems like an unusually inhumane and cruel way to do away with them.

I watched a documentary the other day about dog fighting in the U.S. It is over at Netflix.com. One can even watch it online.

They showed a dog being electrocuted to death.

They have these wires with little pinchers on each end. They hook one up to an ear and the other up under the dog's stomach and flip the switch on the battery. Some just plug the end's into an open wall socket and walk away.

It was horrible to see.

 

[5Stars]

If he is found guilty, then of course he deserves to be suspended. Dog fighting, cock fighting etc are disgusting. However, just being indicted is not enough.

Simply saying the NFL can do what it wants is ridiculous as the NFLPA would slap a grievance on the NFL faster than anything and rightfully so in my view.

:laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

 

[DanTanna]

Coach Killa

Dog Killa

Team Killa

I hope this doesn't screw up our #1 pick from Cleveland.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Just read the whole thing (thanks for the link, Cobra) and Vick is in deep.

There were TONS of fights going on. Not a few, but tens of them, at least.

And I noticed that early on, Vick mainly paid for the property, but didn't seem to be attending the fights. Later, he not only attended the fights, but in at least one instance actually travelled across state lines to take the dog to an "away" fight.

He also (allegedly) personally fetched and delivered a bag of $23,000 to an opposing ring member when one of his dogs lost a fight.

You read this, and he's really in huge trouble. I'm no prosecutor, but it sounds like about all the defense will have is the usual character assassination of the witnesses. And of course, these are shady characters who are operating in these things to begin with. So it might work.

But I have no doubt that he was an active participant in this. You wonder what Goodell will do, because this is a sick, sick story.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Of course it's horrible, dogs are part of the family so we are grossed out by it. However, one could say that calf roping etc is equally as grotesque, only difference is some lawmaker has made cock fighting and dog fighting illegal whereas one can watch calf roping etc legally.

 

[iceberg]

If he is found guilty, then of course he deserves to be suspended. Dog fighting, cock fighting etc are disgusting. However, just being indicted is not enough.

Simply saying the NFL can do what it wants is ridiculous as the NFLPA would slap a grievance on the NFL faster than anything and rightfully so in my view.

again - the US Judicial system is not the end all be all for *all* people *and* businesses to abide by.

when a player plays for the NFL, he signs a contract that contains a code of conduct that may or may *NOT* have anything to do with "legal" issues the player could face *outside* the NFL. the nfl can have it's own set of rules and can easily find vick in violation of their own code of conduct policy and note down any punishmen they see fit for their own rules.

what happens in a "legal" sense is meaningless.

some people can't seperate the two.

 

[Roughneck]

If he is found guilty, then of course he deserves to be suspended. Dog fighting, cock fighting etc are disgusting. However, just being indicted is not enough.

Simply saying the NFL can do what it wants is ridiculous as the NFLPA would slap a grievance on the NFL faster than anything and rightfully so in my view.

Then why hasn't the NFLPA brought a single grievance against the League so far this offseason despite the numerous punishments handed out them to their players, some of whom who were facing less than an indictment.

 

[HardHittin'Witten]

Well, Petrino will be in prime position to draft his boy, Brian Brohm. +

 

[sago1]

Falcons worst nightmare has come true and just a week or so before TC is due to open. Don't you think this indictment will be the major discussion within the lockerroom. All of Vick's endorsements are going down the drain and the sale of Vick Tshirts are going to take a serious hit. Wonder when Vick will address the meeting and claim he not involved and is being prosecuted because he's a celebrity or race or whatever.

 

[AbeBeta]

If he is found guilty, then of course he deserves to be suspended. Dog fighting, cock fighting etc are disgusting. However, just being indicted is not enough.

Simply saying the NFL can do what it wants is ridiculous as the NFLPA would slap a grievance on the NFL faster than anything and rightfully so in my view.

Again -- this issue is about hurting the league's image -- the league didn't give a damn about DUIs and stuff like that until they started to become big news -- now "NFL player arrested" is huge news -- and that's something that the league wants to address.

The league isn't getting tougher because there is an increase in players doing bad stuff -- football is a rough sports and it attracts lots of punks. There is, however, now much more coverage of players doing bad stuff (thanks to sites like the smoking gun and pft) and that is what drives the suspensions.

You get suspended for hurting the league's image, plain and simple. It is all about $. Vick is now in a pretty "elite" class for bringing bad press on the league.

 

[Roughneck]

A friend of mine just sent this email out to our group. He's been an attorney for over 30 years and knows his stuff. Some of this was already touched upon by Cobra:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wholeheartedly agree that an indictment is no evidence of guilt, and that Vick is, in the eyes of the criminal justice system, innocent until proven guilty. With that obvious disclaimer, however, I will share with you my experience with federal prosecutors.

In state court, a defendant generally resigns himself to an indictment because the prosecutor has wide latitude to indict and much of the investigation is done post-indictment. Therefore, a defense lawyer doesn't really get to work defending the case and trying to get it disposed of until after the indictment goes down. Federal prosecutors are very different. The United States Attorney does not indict unless he (1) has already done 99% of his investigation and obtained 99% of the evidence he will use at trial, and (2) is convinced that the evidence he has obtained against the defendant will result in a conviction. As a result, in the federal system, the defense lawyer's efforts are largely geared towards preventing an indictment, since once an indictment is obtained the die is cast and your guy is going to federal-pound-you-in-the-***-prison.

And this indictment (which I pulled down from the Court's website) shows that to be the case here. The indictment identifies four "Cooperating Witness[es]." The first Cooperating Witness (referred to as CW#1 in the indictment) was the guy from whom Vick purchased four pit bulls in early 2002. (Indict at Para. 9.) In February 2002, Vick "rolled" or "tested" some of his pit bulls agaisnt other dogs owned by CW#1 to determine how well the dog fought. It is implied that CW#1 would be able to testify as to the disposal of underperforming dogs.

The second Cooperating Witness ("CW#2") observed Vick at two separate dog fights in June 2002. (Indict. at Para. 47.) At that fight, CW#2 agreed to a fight between his dogs and "Bad Newz Kennels'" (i.e., the outfit co-owned by Vick) dogs. Vick was present at the March 2003 fight between his dog and CW#2's. Vick's dog lost, and after consultation with Vick, Vick's coconspirator "executed the losing dog by wetting the dog down with water and electrocuting the animal." (Indict. at Para. 53.)

The third Cooperating Witness ("CW#3"), had a dog fight against Vick's in Fall 2003. (Indict. at Para. 67.) "During the fight, CW#3 was criticized by a person unknown to the Grand Jury from "Bad Newz Kennels" for CW#3's having yelled out VICK's name in front of the crowd during the dog fight." (Indict. at Para. 68.)

This brings us to Cooperating Witness #4 ("CW#4"), who owned a female pit bull named Trouble against one of Vick's dogs. Vick's dog lost, and Vick personally paid CW#4 the purse money of approximately $7,000. (Indict. at Para. 76.)

That's four witnesses--all of whom can put Vick at the scene of the dog fights and all of whom can testify to his active participation in said fights. And that's only the ones that the US Attorney feels confident enough to put in the Indictment--who knows how many other Cooperating Witnesses may be out there.

Personally, I suspect one of Vick's co-defendants will become CW#5 before the trial is done.

Yes, yes--Vick is innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law. But for our purposes here, the ****er's going down.

 

[eduncan22]

Falcons worst nightmare has come true and just a week or so before TC is due to open. Don't you think this indictment will be the major discussion within the lockerroom. All of Vick's endorsements are going down the drain and the sale of Vick Tshirts are going to take a serious hit. Wonder when Vick will address the meeting and claim he not involved and is being prosecuted because he's a celebrity or race or whatever.

It won't help him.

Federal Judges are very strict.

This guy is in big time trouble.

 

[gbrittain]

Coach Killa

Dog Killa

Team Killa

I hope this doesn't screw up our #1 pick from Cleveland.

They will be drafting a QB if they do.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Does anyone here think Poindexter is surprised at what the Feds found?

And I wonder if anyone has asked Portis his erudite opinion now?

 

[gbrittain]

Of course it's horrible, dogs are part of the family so we are grossed out by it. However, one could say that calf roping etc is equally as grotesque, only difference is some lawmaker has made cock fighting and dog fighting illegal whereas one can watch calf roping etc legally.

Calf roping equally as grotesque as dog fighting?

One could say a lot of things and still be very wrong.

For example...Commanders fans are very knowledgeable and ES is very objective. See, I said it, but it is wrong.