Video: Sheriff Goodell talks Pacman Jones - 11/18/08

[DaBoys4Life]

Last I read/heard he had not recieved the reports from the medical examiners, or whatever the heck they're refered to as. He did get the report from the rehab clinic that Jones doesn't have a drinking problem but it's my understanding that these other reports he's getting are from a seperate thing.



They're not good enough to play ball. Dude everyone knows, and you can ask pretty much every college student from a major university out there, that there are plenty of athletes that get a free ride because they're that good.

My sister-in-law went to Oklahoma State at the same time guys like Barry Sanders, Thurman Thomas, and Hart Lee Dykes was there and she saw first hand how athletes who are just that good get by regardless of what they can, or can't do, in the classroom.

Dykes got to skate by so much because of what he brought to the team it wasn't even funny.

This isn't rocket science dude. It's pretty common knowledge that this stuff happens and it doesn't just happen at the college level. It's well known to go on at the high school levels as well where athletes are given a free pass cause of what they do on the football field on Friday nights.

How long ago was that? Players used to be able to skate and they do get treated differently however it's not as it used to be. Some of them are good enough to play ball. Perfect example would be Earl "the goat" Manigault even though he played B Ball.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

How long ago was that? Players used to be able to skate and they do get treated differently however it's not as it used to be. Some of them are good enough to play ball. Perfect example would be Earl "the goat" Manigault even though he played B Ball.

And the only reason he didn't skate by, and get to keep playing, was because the dude got so darn high that he missed an entire friggen semester of school by disappearing and didn't even know he's missed that long.

And it's just the same in high schools and colleges today. Don't let any of that 'cracking down' by the NCAA and stuff fool you. People still get by just the same.

There are examples in the league right now of people who went to college and 'supposedly' did really well who can't possibly have passed any legit college courses.

Vince Young is a prime example. I know people think that the Wonderlic is a joke and it is, because it's simple. It's a common sense test that you should be able to score pretty easily on. I'm just an average dude when it comes to that sort of stuff and I scored pretty well on it. Vince scored like a 6.

You can also take guys like Benson who can barely speak English coherently yet he's actually passing legit courses in college? Please.

Talent ALWAYS will get you by in those situations. If you can run a 40 in 4.4 or less, can chunk a football with power and accuracy, can hit like a mack truck, and sink jump shots all over the place, can rebound like nobodies business, you're going to get into a college and you're going to get by. Period.

Look around dude. It's fairly obvious.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

And the only reason he didn't skate by, and get to keep playing, was because the dude got so darn high that he missed an entire friggen semester of school by disappearing and didn't even know he's missed that long.

And it's just the same in high schools and colleges today. Don't let any of that 'cracking down' by the NCAA and stuff fool you. People still get by just the same.

There are examples in the league right now of people who went to college and 'supposedly' did really well who can't possibly have passed any legit college courses.

Vince Young is a prime example. I know people think that the Wonderlic is a joke and it is, because it's simple. It's a common sense test that you should be able to score pretty easily on. I'm just an average dude when it comes to that sort of stuff and I scored pretty well on it. Vince scored like a 6.

You can also take guys like Benson who can barely speak English coherently yet he's actually passing legit courses in college? Please.

Talent ALWAYS will get you by in those situations. If you can run a 40 in 4.4 or less, can chunk a football with power and accuracy, can hit like a mack truck, and sink jump shots all over the place, can rebound like nobodies business, you're going to get into a college and you're going to get by. Period.

Look around dude. It's fairly obvious.

I don't think it's them not taking legit college course more as its the coaches telling them what courses to take. Then cheating and etc. I know the football players at my school go to tutoring and such. They take class with each other and the classes are more or less hand picked by the coach. I'm sure if some a player is inbetween ad C and a D they might get that D however you're making it seems as if. Just because someone has a 4.2 40 speed that absolves them of any wrong doing.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I don't think it's them not taking legit college course more as its the coaches telling them what courses to take. Then cheating and etc. I know the football players at my school go to tutoring and such. They take class with each other and the classes are more or less hand picked by the coach. I'm sure if some a player is inbetween ad C and a D they might get that D however you're making it seems as if. Just because someone has a 4.2 40 speed that absolves them of any wrong doing.

Yeah it probably is the coaches, or the athletic department, telling them what to take and making sure they take things that will keep them on the field. That's still cheating and it's still making sure to look out for, and keep, people in college who wouldn't honestly be able to stay in college and get degrees simply because they can play ball and I'll bet money that some of those guys have questionable pasts that have been swept under the rug cause they can help a team win.

If you don't think they break rules now, or that they always get away with it or something, you're niave.

Even a player like Reggie Bush was tied up in a scandal over a house for his parents while he was in college. This stuff happens and it happens all the time.

And I'm sure that players in college, just like in the pros, are doing drugs and getting away with it just like they do in the pros. Steriod uses, cocaine addicts, pot smokers, and all that didn't just suddenly start doing it when they got to the NFL. Some might have, I suppose, but there are just as many who were doing that stuff long before they got to the NFL and that includes while they were in college.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Yeah it probably is the coaches, or the athletic department, telling them what to take and making sure they take things that will keep them on the field. That's still cheating and it's still making sure to look out for, and keep, people in college who wouldn't honestly be able to stay in college and get degrees simply because they can play ball and I'll bet money that some of those guys have questionable pasts that have been swept under the rug cause they can help a team win.

If you don't think they break rules now, or that they always get away with it or something, you're niave.

Even a player like Reggie Bush was tied up in a scandal over a house for his parents while he was in college. This stuff happens and it happens all the time.

And I'm sure that players in college, just like in the pros, are doing drugs and getting away with it just like they do in the pros. Steriod uses, cocaine addicts, pot smokers, and all that didn't just suddenly start doing it when they got to the NFL. Some might have, I suppose, but there are just as many who were doing that stuff long before they got to the NFL and that includes while they were in college.

I'm not saying that they don't do these things. I'm just saying that they don't get absolved of all these things just because they have a 4.2 40. Even though they get benefits they have talent in demand. So of course things will be overlooked. However just being a football player doesn't mean you will get away with everything.

 

[khiladi]

Yeah it probably is the coaches, or the athletic department, telling them what to take and making sure they take things that will keep them on the field. That's still cheating and it's still making sure to look out for, and keep, people in college who wouldn't honestly be able to stay in college and get degrees simply because they can play ball and I'll bet money that some of those guys have questionable pasts that have been swept under the rug cause they can help a team win.

And how many of these athletes come from high schools that reside in low income areas? Since when were they equipped in education in their youth to deal with the academics of college life? How many of these athletes come from single-parent homes? Maybe they had questionable pasts for a reason.I have no problem with a person taking money from 'alumni', while the NCAA doesn't allow it's players to be employed an earn money for a living. Hey, you can't earn an honest pay-check and be responsible in how you deal with real life, but when and if you make it to the pros, you'll be able to handle millions, right away? We will just cater to you, not make you study and work, because we want to 'win' and earn more money for our university. But when you go to the NFL, we won't be responsible for the fact your a 'thug' and have always been one.These guys are more a product of the system than anything else.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

And how many of these athletes come from high schools that reside in low income areas? Since when were they equipped in education in their youth to deal with the academics of college life? How many of these athletes come from single-parent homes? Maybe they had questionable pasts for a reason.

Oh noes don't get to the route of the problem. Everything is gravy when it comes to that......

 

[khiladi]

Oh noes don't get to the route of the problem. Everything is gravy when it comes to that......

As long as Pac-man Jones is hanging out with Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears while those two are drunk and riving recklessly, he won't be considered a 'thug'....
I should add the Kennedy's to the mix....

 

[TwentyOne]

This is a joke.

Aren't there rules for the NFL commisioner ? It seems that he can handle this whole reinstatement thing just on his own interpretation.

He said he will look at Pacmans reinstatement after 4 weeks. Are there organs that control rules and have the power to make the commissioner obey these rules ? without that this whole thing to me is a joke.
For example: 4 weeks are gone and he still waits to talk to the people who treated Pacman in rehabilitation. So he will be able to make a decission not after 4 weeks he can make it maybe even after 5 weeks. So what value had his first saying thast he will look at Pacmans reinstatement after 4 weeks ? Rigth: none, if he can make his own rules.

There are rules for players and there have to be rules for the commissioner. It can't be that a man in this kind of a position with this kind of power can do things just the way he wants to.

 

[Doomsday101]

This is a joke.

Aren't there rules for the NFL commisioner ? It seems that he can handle this whole reinstatement thing just on his own feeling.

He said he will look at Pacmans reinstatement after 4 weeks. Are there organs who control that what he does is right (i mean what the commisioner does) ? 4 weeks are gone and he still waits to talk to the people who treated Pacman in rehabilitation. So he will be able to make a decission not after 4 weeks he can make it maybe even after 5 weeks.

There are rules for players and there have to be rules for the commissioner. It can't be that a man in this kind of a position with this kind of power can do things just the way he wants to.

Pacman situation is not the same as others you judge each situation on its own merits he has had several run in even Tenn realized that which is why they were willing to move on without him. Pacman was reinstated and told this was his last chance 5 weeks later he is suspended again? Hell the fact he will likely get another chance is amazing. They could have easily said we gave you a chance you blew so bye Goodell hasn’t done that

 

[TwentyOne]

Pacman situation is not the same as others you judge each situation on its own merits he has had several run in even Tenn realized that which is why they were willing to move on without him. Pacman was reinstated and told this was his last chance 5 weeks later he is suspended again? Hell the fact he will likely get another chance is amazing. They could have easily said we gave you a chance you blew so bye Goodell hasn’t done that

This is not my point.

My point is there have to be rules for Godell. He can't just say "hey i gonna look at him after 4 weeks". And if he doesn't do it like now who is going to force him todo so ? Nobody because there are no rules ? That would mean this whole thing depends on the feeling of Godell when to look at Pacman again ? That's too much power for one man. He can do whatever he wants with that.

I don't know if there are any rules for the commissioner but in this particular case it seems to me there are no rules for a decission based on a timetable. So it seems if he looks at the decission wether to reinstate Pacman or not is all in his power. So he can also look at Pacman again in 12 weeks, in 2 years etc... That's a real problem to me.

If you (or others) have the feeling that we are lucky that he didn't suspend him forever that's ok. The problem is you can't build societies (companies etc...) based on feelings. You have to have rules that have to be followed. And you have to have control sturctures and organs that are powerful enough to make ervybody obey these rules (laws, police etc...). Everybody has different feelings and if somebody is in a powerful position and can decide based on his feelings i think everybody can imagine what may happen. In this case it looks Godell has exactly that power.

 

[Doomsday101]

This is not my point.

My point is there have to be rules for Godell. He can't just say "hey i gonna look at him after 4 weeks". And if he doesn't do it like now who is going to force him todo so ? Nobody because there are no rules ? That would mean this whole thing depends on the feeling of Godell. That'S too much power for one man. He can do whatever he wants with that.

He has that authority to review a given situation. Pacman has a long history and due to that his punishment is not so cut and dried. Chances are he will be reinstated but Pacman can't continue to take it for granted as many of his worshippers are doing. I don't know about you but last chance means no more chances after this one. The owners evidently do not have a problem giving Goodell these powers not even Jerry who knew going into the Pacman deal that Pacman was walking a thin line with no safety net those were Jones exact words.

 

[TwentyOne]

He has that authority to review a given situation. Pacman has a long history and due to that his punishment is not so cut and dried. Chances are he will be reinstated but Pacman can't continue to take it for granted as many of his worshippers are doing. I don't know about you but last chance means no more chances after this one. The owners evidently do not have a problem giving Goodell these powers not even Jerry who knew going into the Pacman deal that Pacman was walking a thin line with no safety net those were Jones exact words.

Again that's not my point. He has the authority and to me i have no problem with that. My point is the way he is able to handle the authority.

For example: what does the authority say ? To me the rule seems to say: If the commissioner thinks a player did not follow the - let's call it - coorporate identity of the NFL he can suspend him. For how long ? That's to decide by the commissioner. But by what rules ?

To me it seems there are no rules for determing the length of the suspension. And whats more there are no rules to force the comissioner to look at the case again even when he set a timetable for himself.

You mentioned that Jerry Jones seems to be on the commissioners side even if he is negativly affected by the decission of Godell. That seems to justify Godell's way of treating that case. But there is one big point you forget: occupational health and safety.

At latest he NFL is nothing else then a business. A employer who employs players. Players at latest are employees. Now a employee has to follow rules if he doesn't the employer is able to fire him. But so has the employer rules to follow. If there are no rules for the employer then the employer can do whatever he want with his emloyees.

Right now this seems to happen. Even if most of us will say that the way Godell treats Pacman is the right way i think this is the wrong way. Who protects Pacman from - let's say a commissioner who just doesn't like him as a person but can do whatever he wants. Remember this is about Pacmans career this is about his whole life. If the commissioner says i don't reinstate you never again it's the same as if he said i release an employee.

Where is the law or the rule that a employee who has a drinking problem can be dismissed by his employer ? Right now it seems that the proportionality for a delict and the penalty for it is only determined by the commissioner and so by the employer. Is this OK ? I say no way!

Where is the organ that helps the employee to be able to archive his rights as a player and as a person ? That's the main reason why 1956 they founded the National Football League Players Association. You think that the way Godell decided is ok, now i don't think so. Who is the independent aothority to decide which one of us is right ? Right now this seems to be Godell - LOL! He is by far not independent. First and foremost he follows the interests of the NFL and that means those of the employers. That means "earning money" and for sure it does not mean careing about the employees.

It can't be that just because Godell and the owners think that a players behavior hurts the "brand NFL" in it's market value justifies them to dismiss that player.

 

[Doomsday101]

Again that's not my point. He has the authority and to me i have no problem with that. My point is the way he is able to handle the authority.

For example: what does the authority say ? To me it seems the rule seems to say: If the commissioner thinks a player did not follow the - let's call it - coorporate identity of the NFL he can suspend him. For how long ? That's to decide by the commissioner. But by what rules ?

To me it seems there are no rules for determing the length of the suspension. And whats more there are no rules to force the comissioner to look at the case again even when he set a timetable for himself.

You mentioned that Jerry Jones seems to be on the commissioners side even if he is negativly affected by the decission of Godell. That seems to justify Godell's way of treating that case. But there is one big point you forget: occupational health and safety.

At latest he NFL is nothing else then a business. A employer who employs players. Players at latest are employees. Now a employee has to follow rules if he doesn't the employer is able to fire him. But so has the employer rules to follow. If there are no rules for the employer then the employer can do whatever he want with his emloyees.

Right now this seems to happen. Even if most of us will say that the way Godell treats Pacman is the right way it for mayself think this is the wrong way. Who protects Pacman from - let's say a commissioner who just doesn't like him as a person but can do whatever he wants. Remember this is about Pacmans career this is about his whole life. If the commissioner says i don't reinstate you never again it's the same as if he said i release an employee.

Where is the law or the rule that a employee who has a drinking problem can be dismissed by his employer ? Right now it seems that the proportionality for a delict and the penalty for it is only determined by the commissioner and so by the employer. Is this OK ? I say no way!

Where is the organ that helps the employee to be able to archive his rights as a player and as a person ? That's the main reason why 1956 they founded the National Football League Players Association. You think that the way Godell decided is ok, now i don't think so. Who is the independent aothority to decide which one of us is right ? Right now this seems to be Godell - LOL! He is by far not independent. First and foremost he follows the interests of the NFL and that means those of the employers. That means "earning money" and not caring about the employees.

Well has the NFLPA protested this? If Goodell has the backing of owner and Union the 2 entities he held accountable to I don't see the issue. Only people hollering are a few fans and players who have gotten in trouble on consistent bases.

 

[daschoo]

posted this in the other thread but since everyone seems to be discussing it here i thought i'd copy and paste my comment:-

im from scotland and just getting back into american football after staying with the girlfriends folks in san antonio, hence the cowboys being my team. i understand that its obviously just the way things are done over there but why does this lead to a league enforced suspension in the first place? the guys obviously got issues and his personal life appears to be a mess but its exactly that, his personal life. over here what a player does away from the game is not taken into account, he may be fined for off-field behaviour by his club but certainly wouldn't have a league enforced suspension. for example down in england joey barton, newcastle united midfielder who was previously suspended for putting his teammate in hospital in training, recieved jail time for getting in a fight outside mcdonalds (nice guy, his brothers doing life for putting an axe in someones head - parents obviously did a great job!) and was back eligible to play on being released from the pokey. just seems strange to me as to why the league would involve themselves over something totally unrelated to the game

 

[Rack]

posted this in the other thread but since everyone seems to be discussing it here i thought i'd copy and paste my comment:-

im from scotland and just getting back into american football after staying with the girlfriends folks in san antonio, hence the cowboys being my team. i understand that its obviously just the way things are done over there but why does this lead to a league enforced suspension in the first place? the guys obviously got issues and his personal life appears to be a mess but its exactly that, his personal life. over here what a player does away from the game is not taken into account, he may be fined for off-field behaviour by his club but certainly wouldn't have a league enforced suspension. for example down in england joey barton, newcastle united midfielder who was previously suspended for putting his teammate in hospital in training, recieved jail time for getting in a fight outside mcdonalds (nice guy, his brothers doing life for putting an axe in someones head - parents obviously did a great job!) and was back eligible to play on being released from the pokey. just seems strange to me as to why the league would involve themselves over something totally unrelated to the game

It's all about $$$. The media tends to pay very close attention to anything negative a player does either on the field or off the field. Negative press is not good for business. With too much negative press networks won't want to hand over as many billions to the NFL as they normally would have, they'd use all that negative press in negotiations. Goodell wants to clean up the image of the NFL... so they can get more money.

 

[TwentyOne]

Well has the NFLPA protested this? If Goodell has the backing of owner and Union the 2 entities he held accountable to I don't see the issue. Only people hollering are a few fans and players who have gotten in trouble on consistent bases.

I don't know if they did. But that they maybe didn't doesn't answer the question if there are laws the comissioner has to follow.

The other thing is that in your last sentence you are trying to prevaricate the facts. Fact is that i think there should be laws that determine how to operate in that kind of case. That means i plead for a solution not based on feelings but by reason. That means i don't holler - what would suggest i decide by my feeling.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't know if they did. But that they maybe didn't doesn't answer the question if there are laws the comissioner has to follow.

The other thing is that in your last sentence you are trying to prevaricate the facts. Fact is that i think there should be laws that determine how to operate in that kind of case. That means i plead for a solution not based on feelings but by reason. That means i don't holler - what would suggest i decide by my feeling.

By all rights Goodell could have kicked him out of the league. Pacman was given 1 last chance before being reinstated Jerry Jones knew it, the Union knew it and Pacman knew it the fact Goodell is even thinking about reinstating him is amazing. I don't know what last chance means to you but I think that he has been more than fair in dealing with this. Most business do not give an employee what is now 8 chances.

 

[TwentyOne]

It's all about $$$. The media tends to pay very close attention to anything negative a player does either on the field or off the field. Negative press is not good for business. With too much negative press networks won't want to hand over as many billions to the NFL as they normally would have, they'd use all that negative press in negotiations. Goodell wants to clean up the image of the NFL... so they can get more money.

Exactly. That's the point. Even if the NFL like to put it in the ligth like "they try to care about their players" it'S only about the money.

And that'S the main reason why Godell and that Pacman issue drives me nuts. When it's about money there is always a weaker side (a weaker someone). In a welfare state there has to be laws to protect the weak ones.

 

[FCBarca]

$$$$...That's all you need to know when trying to figure out the answer to questions like these...As Chris Tucker says 'Follow the rich white man'