We're going to have to cut a quality d-linemen

[Doomsay]

Hayden deserves his share of that. He's a limited player. But he's made the team the last few years for a reason.

It was OK to have a far below average coach's ally on a bottom 5 defensive line in transition last year, but there is 0 justification for Hayden starting or even being on the roster this year. Guy can't produce, pure and simple. I think that he might be a great position coach this year, but he is a liability on the field.

 

[BlindFaith]

What stats are you talking about that back up your stance?

Mincey was top 20 last year in pressures and had as many as guys like Cameron Wake and Tamba Hali.

It seems that for some reason you want Mincey to be a JAG and have put Blind Faith behind that thought.

http://i1079.***BLOCKED***/albums/w506/blindfaith69/Team%20Sack%20Leaders%20Ranking.png

Here is the ranking of the top pressure players per team. This is based on sacks. Mincey is 28th. Mincey also played on the 29th worst pass defense in the league.

Pressures are not all equal. As it goes for sacks. How long does it take a guy to get the pressure? The average time to throw for a QB is around 3.7 seconds. We all know that QBs had much longer than that against this defense. Pressuring or sacking a QB if he is back there over 5 seconds are the same as one that gets to the QB in less than 4.

Mincey never commanded a double team. Later in the year he benefited from teams focusing on T Crawford.

 

[BlindFaith]

What stats are you talking about that back up your stance?

Mincey was top 20 last year in pressures and had as many as guys like Cameron Wake and Tamba Hali.

It seems that for some reason you want Mincey to be a JAG and have put Blind Faith behind that thought.

http://i1079.***BLOCKED***/albums/w506/blindfaith69/Sacks%20by%20DE.png

Here are the stats for just DEs. Mincey is 24th. Factor in his lack of tackles or tackles for loss and he compares to guys like George Johnson, Kroy Biermann, Desmond Bryant, Mario Anderson and the like. Most would consider them JAGs.

 

[BlindFaith]

What stats are you talking about that back up your stance?

Mincey was top 20 last year in pressures and had as many as guys like Cameron Wake and Tamba Hali.

It seems that for some reason you want Mincey to be a JAG and have put Blind Faith behind that thought.

http://i1079.***BLOCKED***/albums/w506/blindfaith69/League%20Sack%20Leaders%20Ranking.png
http://i1079.***BLOCKED***/albums/w506/blindfaith69/League%20Sack%20Leaders%20Ranking%20Bottom.png

Over all, compared to other pass rushers, he ranks 43 in sacks. Even comparing him to guys below him, factoring in tackles and tackles for loss, he is even less effective.

He is a JAG. He has been effectively replaced. He will be a bit player. And I firmly believe that after Hardy comes back we will never hear from him again. He will be gone next year as Selvie was this year. Hopefully Hayden joins him.

 

[BlindFaith]

What stats are you talking about that back up your stance?

Mincey was top 20 last year in pressures and had as many as guys like Cameron Wake and Tamba Hali.

It seems that for some reason you want Mincey to be a JAG and have put Blind Faith behind that thought.

And comparing Mincey to guys like Wake and Hali doesn't even warrant a discussion. If you don't understand that those guys are far superior to Mincey then I understand why you don't think Mincey is a JAG.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

And comparing Mincey to guys like Wake and Hali doesn't even warrant a discussion. If you don't understand that those guys are far superior to Mincey then I understand why you don't think Mincey is a JAG.

I never said Mincey was superior to those guys. But he had the same number of total pressures. I like how you conveniently tried to just ignore that fact. Unless you think any old JAG can match those guys in registered QB pressures? Or that finishing in the top 20 for all DEs is something any old JAG can do?

Blind Faith and cognitive dissonance is a dangerous combination.

 

[HellCrowe]

This is great news!! Last year we were scrambling for depth.

 

[BlindFaith]

I never said Mincey was superior to those guys. But he had the same number of total pressures. I like how you conveniently tried to just ignore that fact. Unless you think any old JAG can match those guys in registered QB pressures? Or that finishing in the top 20 for all DEs is something any old JAG can do?

Blind Faith and cognitive dissonance is a dangerous combination.

Yes, since he is a JAG and did it I guess any ole JAG can eventually get to a QB. Too bad he couldn't get there in time to actually record a sack more than 6 times.

Kroy Biermann had 14 pressures. I guess he's not a JAG either. He actually put up twice the number of tackles as well. Same for William Hayes. Two future All Pros right there.

Clay Mathews had 8 pressures. Robert Quinn had 9. Guess Mincey is twice as good as those guys.

 

[Payton34Smith22]

Really wanted Gardner to make a good impression.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I don't know how much "quality" I see there. I know what to expect from Hardy. I know what to expect from Crawford. I know what to expect from Mincey. Everything else is a BIG question mark. I feel good about Lawrence and Gregory but they're still young so i'm not really sure how much expectations you can have from a 1st year Gregory and a 2nd year Lawrence. McClain, Edwards and Hayden could get cut and I don't think it would ruin our playoff chances.

 

[CrownCowboy]

I don't hate him but if you look at the roster the past two years it makes a whole lot of sense. Two years ago we had Hatcher and Ratliff and Hayden was a street free agent they picked up for depth. Trading Lissemore was not good. The only other tackle of note was the guy they ended up trading to NE. That was the year they ended up bringing in Everett Brown, Jarius Wynn, and the scrubs at various points because of all the injuries. That was Hayden's competition.

Last year, they brought in McClain in FA who has been hurt ever since and Coleman and Bishop. They also brought in Whaley and Okoye. With McClain injured and two rookies Hayden makes the team by default.

This year you have the two young players both upping their game. I don't hate Hayden though. He maxes out and is a leader but I want better defense at the poa and more push up front than what he provides. You've watched it. You've seen the LOL look at Hayden getting ragdolled on a combo block. You likely noticed the string of single blocks he failed to beat. You've watched teams slide protection away from him to the edges. Pointing that out is not hate.

When I see Coleman and Bishop winning against Chargers double teams, it makes me smile. Last year against the Chargers at this same time, Coleman and Bishop got their butts kicked. They played most of the game a week ago and finished strong this time around. I think if the two of them continue to play well in practices and games that it will take care of itself. I'm not going to be distracted by Marinelli and his Golden Cock motivational tactics.

McClain and Hayden aren't even practicing.

I pretty much agree.

I don't hate Hayden either. I'm sure he is a nice guy and has some knowledge that could help players. He may very well have a future in coaching.

As far as on the field, however, there virtually is nothing there, at all.

I went back and watched alittle over half of his snaps last year and the man just got dominated. No positives at all to him being out there. Now I am no professional football coach or scout for that matter, but it's fairly obvious to see when someone is not doing their job and on top of that, getting manhandled.

I also don't subscribe to this notion that he is the one that always stays healthy so we know we can count on him and that's why he makes this team. If we are going to be serious contenders for a Super Bowl, we can't be trotting guys like Hayden out there in any capacity, much less as a starter getting over 600 reps for the season.

Coleman, Bishop, even an injured McClain are not world beaters but they are leaps and bounds better than Hayden is. Cutting any one of them in my opinion to keep Hayden is just something I can't get my mind around. It just makes no sense at all.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Yes, since he is a JAG and did it I guess any ole JAG can eventually get to a QB. Too bad he couldn't get there in time to actually record a sack more than 6 times.

Kroy Biermann had 14 pressures. I guess he's not a JAG either. He actually put up twice the number of tackles as well. Same for William Hayes. Two future All Pros right there.

Clay Mathews had 8 pressures. Robert Quinn had 9. Guess Mincey is twice as good as those guys.

Clay Matthews is a LB. And Quinn had a down season...anyone including Quinn and his mother will tell you the same. He had 10 games last season when he didn't record a sack.

Pressures are pressures and are often as impactful as sacks. That's just the nature of football. You'd understand that if you followed the game.

 

[BlindFaith]

Clay Matthews is a LB. And Quinn had a down season...anyone including Quinn and his mother will tell you the same. He had 10 games last season when he didn't record a sack.

Pressures are pressures and are often as impactful as sacks. That's just the nature of football. You'd understand that if you followed the game.

Please. Not all sacks are equal. Not all pressures are equal. Looking at pressures to define if a guy is good or not is ridiculous. Address the other stats I put up. How is Mincey any better than Kroy Biermann? How is he any better than William Hayes. Explain his low tackle totals. Explain his low tackles for loss. Explain why we added 3 DEs this year. We drafted one high last year. We have two other guys with potential. Explain why the entire team realizes they have to be better on defense and much better rushing the passer. Explain how you can justify Mincey being any more than a JAG when the team has done everything in their power to replace him.

Oh, that's right, cause Mincey has two more pressures than Kroy Biermann. Brilliant analysis. If you think that is following the game, then you're right, I don't. I watch the game and evaluate what I see. Been doing it for a very long time.

What team would add Mincey if he were cut today? Give me just one team. You think Atlanta would be willing to replace Kroy Biermann with Mincey? lol I don't. They probably don't even really know who Mincey is. Just like probably most people on every other team don't know who he is.

I realize this defense has been bad the last couple years. Really bad in 2013. But my God, let's be realistic about they guys that contributed to that. Mincey and Hayden are nobodies. Spare parts. Wouldn't be on a roster anywhere. Were cut by previous teams.

 

[cowboyschmps3]

Edwards, McClain.....Maybe not cut but maybe trade one get a 6th like we traded last year for Edwards.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Please. Not all sacks are equal. Not all pressures are equal. Looking at pressures to define if a guy is good or not is ridiculous. Address the other stats I put up. How is Mincey any better than Kroy Biermann? How is he any better than William Hayes. Explain his low tackle totals. Explain his low tackles for loss. Explain why we added 3 DEs this year. We drafted one high last year. We have two other guys with potential. Explain why the entire team realizes they have to be better on defense and much better rushing the passer. Explain how you can justify Mincey being any more than a JAG when the team has done everything in their power to replace him.

Oh, that's right, cause Mincey has two more pressures than Kroy Biermann. Brilliant analysis. If you think that is following the game, then you're right, I don't. I watch the game and evaluate what I see. Been doing it for a very long time.

What team would add Mincey if he were cut today? Give me just one team. You think Atlanta would be willing to replace Kroy Biermann with Mincey? lol I don't. They probably don't even really know who Mincey is. Just like probably most people on every other team don't know who he is.

I realize this defense has been bad the last couple years. Really bad in 2013. But my God, let's be realistic about they guys that contributed to that. Mincey and Hayden are nobodies. Spare parts. Wouldn't be on a roster anywhere. Were cut by previous teams.

We signed Gregory because we got him on a no risk deal. We drafted Gregory (who we passed on at a place where hed' still have represented tremendous value) because he was a monstrous steal.

We draft lineman because this team builds in the trenches. Saying we drafted Gregory because Mincey is a JAG would be like saying we gave Collins the full court press because Leary is a JAG.

Bowing out now.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

Yes, since he is a JAG and did it I guess any ole JAG can eventually get to a QB. Too bad he couldn't get there in time to actually record a sack more than 6 times.

Kroy Biermann had 14 pressures. I guess he's not a JAG either. He actually put up twice the number of tackles as well. Same for William Hayes. Two future All Pros right there.

Clay Mathews had 8 pressures. Robert Quinn had 9. Guess Mincey is twice as good as those guys.

Mincy played in a rotation how do these guys and the others listed stack up against Mincy in number of snaps played?

That is a big reason his tackle numbers are so low, why don't you trot those stats out so we can get a true idea of production?

 

[John813]

Really wanted Gardner to make a good impression.

Still has 3 games to make an impression.

 

[RJ_MacReady]

All I know is that that list looks a helluva lot better than the one staring us in the face prior to the 2013 season. Whoof.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Whenever I read the Hayden hate, it makes me wonder how some of you guys think he not only makes the team, but has been our starter here for two years if he can't play. Obviously, the guy's a smart high-effort player that does what Marinelli wants from that 1-tech position. No amount of couch-scouting is going to change that. Yes, he's physically limited, but the guy's obviously doing something right.

His contributions can be easily replaced. Smart? OK so what? High-effort? OK so what? He isn't a difference maker or play maker on the field and that is all I care about. If a defensive unit is graded by it's weakest player, and that player is Hayden, your defense is not a playoff defense. He is a progress stopper and should be a former Cowboy soon. Or do you want me to tell you how I really feel?

 

[xwalker]

http://i1079.***BLOCKED***/albums/w506/blindfaith69/Sacks%20by%20DE.png

Here are the stats for just DEs. Mincey is 24th. Factor in his lack of tackles or tackles for loss and he compares to guys like George Johnson, Kroy Biermann, Desmond Bryant, Mario Anderson and the like. Most would consider them JAGs.

There are 64 starting DEs in the NFL. Ranking 24th would put him in the top 40%.

There are many levels between an elite player and a Jag.

Your argument seems to be that if a player is not in the elite category then he has to be a Jag.