What does an acceptable rebuild transition period look like for you?

[KJJ]

such silliness from you lately.

From me? lol

 

[Blitzen]

If a teams franchise QB gets injured that can lead to a bad season. You don’t see teams that have a capable QB picking in the top 10. Our 5-11 teams of the early 2000s had a number of issues, but the biggest one was at QB. During Parcells first season with the Cowboys, he got Carter to perform decently and we went 10-5 with pretty much the same roster we had the previous 5-11 season. We struggled with a washed up Vinny and Bledsoe. As soon as Romo took over we immediately became a playoff team during a 2006 season where we looked like we were going nowhere with Bledsoe.

The issues were all over the place and there were several good additions that really helped that 2003 squad. Terrence Williams, Jason Written, Terry Glenn, and Richie Anderson definitely helped. Carter tossing 17 TDs to 23 interceptions had little to do with winning but the team having the 2nd best defense with regards to points against had a lot to do with it (lots of low scoring tight games). And Carter did nothing the previous two seasons when the Cowboys went 5-11. That team had a lot of fire in the belly in general with Parcells completely taking over the locker room.

Teams can struggle and will draft in the top ten with a capable QB on a terrible squad (see Peyton Manning in 1998 then 1999 4th overall pick after finishing 3-13), Joe Burrow (see 2020 then 2021 5th overall pick), our own Troy Aikman (see 1989 to 1990-forfeited 1st overall pick by picking Steve Walsh in 89 supplemental), and many other capable QBs have had terrible seasons because of terrible rosters (resulting in top ten picks-even when the capable QB played every game and was healthy).

 

[KJJ]

The issues were all over the place and there were several good additions that really helped that 2003 squad. Terrence Williams, Jason Written, Terry Glenn, and Richie Anderson definitely helped. Carter tossing 17 TDs to 23 interceptions had little to do with winning but the team having the 2nd best defense with regards to points against had a lot to do with it (lots of low scoring tight games). And Carter did nothing the previous two seasons when the Cowboys went 5-11. That team had a lot of fire in the belly in general with Parcells completely taking over the locker room.

Teams can struggle and will draft in the top ten with a capable QB on a terrible squad (see Peyton Manning in 1998 then 1999 4th overall pick after finishing 3-13), Joe Burrow (see 2020 then 2021 5th overall pick), our own Troy Aikman (see 1989 to 1990-forfeited 1st overall pick by picking Steve Walsh in 89 supplemental), and many other capable QBs have had terrible seasons because of terrible rosters (resulting in top ten picks-even when the capable QB played every game and was healthy).

Terrence Williams wasn’t on the 2003 team, he was drafted in 2013. There was a few new additions to that team but there were a lot of the same players from the 5-11 teams. Parcells kept a lot of those players to evaluate them. Witten was a rookie and didn’t produce a lot. Naturally when you have a terrible team QBs like Aikman and Peyton Manning will struggle as rookies leading to a bad season. Once they established themselves as great NFL QBs that didn’t happen. If a QB isn’t getting it done by year 3, you have a problem, especially in today’s game. QBs develop much faster because of all the offseason work and the passing offenses they were part of in college. They’re much more prepared to have success at the NFL level which is why we’re seeing some rookie QBs have solid rookie seasons.

 

[big dog cowboy]

We don’t have a QB problem.

You are right we don't have QB problem.

We have a HUGE QB problem.

 

[KJJ]

You are right we don't have QB problem.

We have a HUGE QB problem.

The only problem is extending him and having enough cap space to add a few more solid pieces.

 

[CowboyStar88]

I think if you get steady QB play ( not hero ball ) you can be competitive while retooling your team as long as you have the resources and assets to retool. I think year 1 you could see 8-9 win team.

 

[DuncanIso]

The Dak to Lance transition will be key.

Also, the RB and OL rebuild…tricky.

LT, C, RG

 

[DuncanIso]

Dallas could mortgage this draft for a QB in a Ricky Williams style trade and flat out cut Dak so they eat the $61 million (?) cap hit all at once. Dallas may not have a great season next year but they would still have a good amount of talent, a cheap QB, and at least $61 million (?) in cap space to begin building the following year. Not many players are going to buy into that and certainly not McCarthy so McCarthy would have to be extended as well.

Already have one from the 2021 draft.

3rd pick 1st Round

#Lance

 

[DuncanIso]

A rebuild = new QB.

This is not some talent starved team that needs players everywhere. There are all-pros on both sides of the ball. It’s a good roster with a QB who is good but not good enough.

Need LT, C, RG soon, RB1, WR2, WR3

QB1 is Lance

 

[Bullflop]

The entire Jones clan needs to realize that making money isn't the key to building a championship team! The brand isn't what it's all about to the fans -- that just what greedy owners and their family love to pretend. If they concentrate on building a winner instead of polishing the brand, maybe, just maybe, they don't need to rebuild at all. Here's hoping a needful miracle comes to pass! Wake up, front office and build your team into winners! Do all you can to improve the talent available and watch them win in the playoffs! Get rid of the circus atmosphere and be practical. Great teams do that.

 

[plasticman]

The quickest rebuild in NFL history was probably the Cowboys in 1975 when all the Doomsday Defense began to retire after the 1974 season. The Cowboys went 8-6 and missed the playoffs for the first time in 9 seasons.

All the preseason sports magazines (no cable TV, no ESPN, no computers, no internet) had the Cowboys going last in a five team NFC East. A few had them going second to last. This was supposed to be the beginning of the rebuilding years. Sports writers predicted it would take 4-5 years.

However, thanks to some great trades, the Cowboys ended up withthe 1st overall pick in the 1974 daft and the 2nd overall pick in the 1975 draft. They also got a great value in 1973 when they drafted Harvey Martin in the 3rd round.

They used those top overall picks to get Ed "Too Tall Jones and Randy White. They had rebuilt their D-line and nobody realized this. In the 1975 draft they also picked up an entire LB corps with Hollywood Henderson, Bob Breunig, and Mike Hegman.

In the 1975 "Dirty Dozen" draft they also added future O-line starters Pat Donovan, Herbert Scott, and Burton Lawless.

Back then, the Cowboys lucky number was 13. They had three 13th round players on the roster, RB Scott Laidlaw, DB Mark Washington, and TE Jean Fugett

The Cowboys also did very well in rookie free agency, despite a 17 round draft. They included DB Benny Barnes, RB Doug Dennison and a converted QB, WR Drew Pearson.

In the Cowboys first rebuilding season, they went to the Super Bowl, losing to the Steelers by 4 points. Two years later they would win their 2nd Super Bowl

As it turned out, 1974 was the only year in the 70's when they did not go to the playoffs.

 

[Blitzen]

Terrence Williams wasn’t on the 2003 team, he was drafted in 2013. There was a few new additions to that team but there were a lot of the same players from the 5-11 teams. Parcells kept a lot of those players to evaluate them. Witten was a rookie and didn’t produce a lot. Naturally when you have a terrible team QBs like Aikman and Peyton Manning will struggle as rookies leading to a bad season. Once they established themselves as great NFL QBs that didn’t happen. If a QB isn’t getting it done by year 3, you have a problem, especially in today’s game. QBs develop much faster because of all the offseason work and the passing offenses they were part of in college. They’re much more prepared to have success at the NFL level which is why we’re seeing some rookie QBs have solid rookie seasons.

Terrence Newman I meant haha. And he played well despite not getting tons of interceptions. My point stands-the success of that season had very little to do with Quincy Carter the QB-and mostly to do with defense (and some Parcells magic).

So the QB has until year 3 to establish themselves? Then those awful seasons cannot exist? Matt Ryan went 4-12 in two separate seasons (6th season and 13th season). Also went 6-10 his seventh season (he played every single game all three seasons-all three seasons resulted in top ten picks). Despite all that, they made it to and barely lost the 2012 NFCCG (his fifth season). I won’t even begin with Matthew Stafford-and there are others.

The team can just be bad-with a really good QB (and the QB cannot dictate the results on the field-at least most QBs cannot move the needle much past their own team’s surrounding cast capabilities).

I completely disagree with the thought that QB’s are coming into the league more developed now than ever before (you should listen to Tom Brady’s recent take on it). Most colleges do not run a pro style offense. Lots of NFL squads run tons of RPO stuff to help a young inexperienced QB find their way. The league has made the QB position infinitely easier to play with all the rule changes. Passers do not have to be exceptionally accurate and make tons of complex decisions throughout a game most of the time (unless they are playing an elite defense).

 

[KJJ]

Terrence Newman I meant haha. And he played well despite not getting tons of interceptions. My point stands-the success of that season had very little to do with Quincy Carter the QB-and mostly to do with defense (and some Parcells magic).

So the QB has until year 3 to establish themselves? Then those awful seasons cannot exist? Matt Ryan went 4-12 in two separate seasons (6th season and 13th season). Also went 6-10 his seventh season (he played every single game all three seasons-all three seasons resulted in top ten picks). Despite all that, they made it to and barely lost the 2012 NFCCG (his fifth season). I won’t even begin with Matthew Stafford-and there are others.

The team can just be bad-with a really good QB (and the QB cannot dictate the results on the field-at least most QBs cannot move the needle much past their own team’s surrounding cast capabilities).

I completely disagree with the thought that QB’s are coming into the league more developed now than ever before (you should listen to Tom Brady’s recent take on it). Most colleges do not run a pro style offense. Lots of NFL squads run tons of RPO stuff to help a young inexperienced QB find their way. The league has made the QB position infinitely easier to play with all the rule changes. Passers do not have to be exceptionally accurate and make tons of complex decisions throughout a game most of the time (unless they are playing an elite defense).

The success of the 2003 season had something to do with Carter. He had by far his most productive season. We generated more offense that season. We ranked 8 spots higher than the previous season. Parcels got the defense to perform better, which was pretty much the same players from the previous season. You seem to want to go on and on with this. It’s obvious we don’t agree on anything and I have better things to do than to spend multiple days wasting time. It’s not like our opinions are going to change. If you want to continue feel free but I’m moving on to other topics.

 

[Chasing6]

I'm just curious for those who want to blow it up, or at the very least move on from Dak. How long would you be comfortable absolutely sucking after?
This isn't a loaded question either, or a disguised thread to fearmonger what losing dak would look like. I'm just coming around, and wondering how others feel.

I'd hate just being terrible with no hope for 3 years +.

First you have to be willing to tear it all down. I don't think GM Jeruh would ever do that.

Example. This draft is loaded with WR. If we traded CD we could get 2 first round picks and end up with 2 WR's and save $30M - that is what he is going to want on his new contract.

GM Jeruh would never do that. That is a move that Jimmy Johnson would make.

 

[Romo_To_Dez]

If it's as simple as just replacing the QB and leaving everything else the same(like some believes that it is), including how Jerry and Stephen currently builds and runs the roster. then it shouldn't take anymore than 2 or 3 years for the Cowboys to in in the Super Bowl.

 

[Reid1boys]

I'd give them 1 rebuild year then expectations shoot right back up. It's really just a matter of getting the cap back under control. If you do truly blow it up and deal a Lamb and/or Parsons in theory you should receive a ton of draft capital to rebuild. If this team had 3-5 top 100 draft picks in each of the next two years plus enough available money to go shopping in free agency for impact players I see no reason to believe they couldn't make this a quick rebuild. If you move on from just Dak you eat the cap hit this year and should have the resources to rebuild pretty quick. You'd still have a ton of top end talent in guys like Lamb, Diggs, Parsons, Bland, T Smith, etc plus now potentially some available cap space to fill in some gaps.

The issue teams get into is they wait a year too long to tear it down and they're left picking up the pieces after their star players leave and all they get in return is a comp pick. I think you can often find a solid to good replacement QB via the draft or the open market these days, but its so crucial to have the team around them already built. I think so many young QBs fail despite being labeled as top prospects coming out of school because they go to terrible teams with no help.

this is funny. First off, there is no such thing as rebuilding. There is having a very good qb and not having a very good qb.

If you have a very good qb, you are a good team. If you dont have a good qb, you stink.

Want proof? i could list teams for days... but Ill give 2 or 3 easy ones.

Broncos sucked without Manning. Manning showed up and they instantly were SB contenders. Manning retired, team sucked again.

Huston was the worst team in the league, they struck gold with Stroud and instantly became a playoff team.

Colts were a very solid team with Andrew Luck, he retired and they instantly sucked.

Lets watch the jets this year. Last year, people were saying they could go to the SB..... Rodgers went down... and well, we know the rest.

 

[Reid1boys]

First you have to be willing to tear it all down. I don't think GM Jeruh would ever do that.

Example. This draft is loaded with WR. If we traded CD we could get 2 first round picks and end up with 2 WR's and save $30M - that is what he is going to want on his new contract.

GM Jeruh would never do that. That is a move that Jimmy Johnson would make.

any GM that isnt an idiot woul dnever do that.

So you f=draft a top 4 WR and then you want to get rid of him as soon as he is due a contract? You strike Gold with Parsons and then want to trade him away? It always amazes me when people want to trade away super start players. Just stupid is all I can say.

 

[Chasing6]

any GM that isnt an idiot woul dnever do that.

So you f=draft a top 4 WR and then you want to get rid of him as soon as he is due a contract? You strike Gold with Parsons and then want to trade him away? It always amazes me when people want to trade away super start players. Just stupid is all I can say.

What was stupid was trading 3 first round picks for Trance.

How many super star WR's did Brady have again?

If you like the Super Star approach and want to spend half your salary cap on 6 players, you will struggling to win a SB.

Have a few Superstars, and a bad playoff team. Sell tickets and merch and call it a season.

 

[thunderpimp91]

this is funny. First off, there is no such thing as rebuilding. There is having a very good qb and not having a very good qb.

If you have a very good qb, you are a good team. If you dont have a good qb, you stink.

Want proof? i could list teams for days... but Ill give 2 or 3 easy ones.

Broncos sucked without Manning. Manning showed up and they instantly were SB contenders. Manning retired, team sucked again.

Huston was the worst team in the league, they struck gold with Stroud and instantly became a playoff team.

Colts were a very solid team with Andrew Luck, he retired and they instantly sucked.

Lets watch the jets this year. Last year, people were saying they could go to the SB..... Rodgers went down... and well, we know the rest.

Yeah you can find plenty of examples where teams were a QB away from taking a losing record to a winning record, but to make it as black and white as you either have a QB or you don't is funny to me. How did the Lions go from 3 wins to 9 wins to 12 wins with the same QB? Also how was that same Lions team so bad for so many years but their QB won the super bowl as soon as he went to LA? How did the Browns win 11 games this year? How did Pittsburg win 10 games with one of the worst QBs in football? Was it Carson Wentz and Nick Foles that won Philly their last super bowl? No chance, they won that super bowl because they had built up a complete team. Why Did Baker Mayfield struggle to stay on a roster last year, but goes to the pro bowl as soon as he starts throwing the ball to Mike Evans? Why isn't Jimmy G making post season runs now that he isn't with the 9ers?

Plenty of example of teams that got better by adding a qb, and I wont argue that for a second. There are so many examples of good teams with middle of the road QBs as well.

 

[Chasing6]

Yeah you can find plenty of examples where teams were a QB away from taking a losing record to a winning record, but to make it as black and white as you either have a QB or you don't is funny to me. How did the Lions go from 3 wins to 9 wins to 12 wins with the same QB? Also how was that same Lions team so bad for so many years but their QB won the super bowl as soon as he went to LA? How did the Browns win 11 games this year? How did Pittsburg win 10 games with one of the worst QBs in football? Was it Carson Wentz and Nick Foles that won Philly their last super bowl? No chance, they won that super bowl because they had built up a complete team. Why Did Baker Mayfield struggle to stay on a roster last year, but goes to the pro bowl as soon as he starts throwing the ball to Mike Evans? Why isn't Jimmy G making post season runs now that he isn't with the 9ers?

Plenty of example of teams that got better by adding a qb, and I wont argue that for a second. There are so many examples of good teams with middle of the road QBs as well.

How? They rebuilt their team and then went and got a QB. That is how.

This is why I think it is a dumb investment for crappy teams to draft a QB with the number 1 pick. If your team is atrocious a QB is not going to help.

This is also why most logical people understand Trance is a bust. The like the excuse of he had injuries. Pretty sure Mr. Irrelevant's injury was much more severe.