What if Chaz Green didn't have injury issues

[jnday]

That's just silly. I've been one-v.-many on so many topics I can't even recall them. I happened to be right in most of them just because I usually am. It had nothing to do with how many people I was debating.

But there's very little doubt Risen and Alex have been wrong about just about everything they've posted re: Jason Garrett, the scouting department and it's reorganization, about how the team went about systematically rebuilding the OL, about the value of CBs in the NFL. About the plans and the attention given to the DL. About Jerry and Co's ability to show fiscal restraint in the Garrett era. These are probably the most-debated topics in the Zone over the last three years, and they were on the wrong side of every single one of them.

Not to mention smaller topics like the ability of Tryone Crawford, the play of Doug Free, the upside for Anthony Hitchens, the ability of Rolando McClain to have a significant impact. The value of journeymen players like Justin Durant and McKenzie Bernardeau. The value of brining in Bill Callhan for the zone blocking scheme. The value of Rod Marinelli.

Seriously, the stuff they get wrong is just too significant to mention. And, individually, they don't own it. This is why they have the reputation they do. Now, some fans enjoy that kind of harping during the period where things are getting built. Especially if they don't see the progress themselves. That's fine, because that's the nature of a message board again, but, in retrospect, let's not pretend any of that stuff was accurate. Risen and Alexander are the Batman and Robin of being wrong about football, and it's all in the search history in black and white.

When you get time, we can go from topic to topic to debate these accusations. It should be fun because we can exchange posts without personal attacks and we have a laugh afterwards. By the way, I still remember you being happy with Costa and you didn't want top picks invested in the line. Lol

 

[dallasdave]

As far as trolls go, I have never seen Risen or Alexander troll this site. They may have different opinions than you, but from what I've always seen they love the Cowboys. Stop with the accusations. They have their opinions on which direction the team should go, I have my opinions on which direction the team should go, you have your opinion on which way the team will go. In the end, we are not Cowboys FO. They will go the direction they will go. That's what they get the big bucks for. We're here just discussing what they are doing.

All of our observances and opinions and conjectures are really to discuss the team we all love and keep ourselves entertained during this long off season. There is no conspiracy, no trolling, just someone has a different opinion than you. Handle it like an adult, and stop accusing others of trolling.

Best post of whole thread.

 

[gimmesix]

I don't have much concern that Green can be the next Parnell or Weems. Just not counting on him for much beyond that.

I don't see why he can't end up being the next Free. Nothing is guaranteed in that regard, but it's not a stretch if Green can stay healthy for him to turn into an eventual starter.

If not, and he just turns into the next game-day backup, I'm OK with that too. We get spoiled by some third-round picks turning into stars like Witten and Murray, but the percentages say that if you just get a contributor, you're doing well.

 

[Alexander]

But he was a top high school prospect coming out for a reason. If he's go the right attitude and puts in the work, he'll have the inside track for that wide open swing tackle role.

So was Sam Farmer.

Maybe that was our deal this year.

Find injury issue players who never got on the field in college and outsmart everyone.

 

[Alexander]

Again, it's not about Free. It's about Collins and Green and how much difference there is in their ability to play OT in the NFL.

No, I think you have made it very clear you have an issue with Free.

 

[Alexander]

Just look back a last year and the Hitchens pick. He went on and on about how terrible that pick was because the draft media had him ranked lower. The results were that Hitchens started 11 games as a rookie, including 4 starts when Carter was available but didn't start.

And you know what, I will be wrong. No question.

Even professionals who "study film" are wrong. If they were not, there would never be any busts in the draft.

Yes, we are not privy to the inner workings of the team and traits they see that fit.

Of course, if you rubber stamp everything the team does and endorse it, you can always claim victory.

Sorry, that is not my game.

If there is something I agree with, I say so. If I do not, based on my limited information.

You of all people should get that as much as you hate the idea that Free and Hayden play huge roles on this team despite all your "film study" that suggests that they shouldn't.

 

[TrailBlazer]

I just think Green needs some serious coaching and development. Its just going to take a year or 2. I see a player with potential to contend for a starting job at some point.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I just think Green needs some serious coaching and development. Its just going to take a year or 2. I see a player with potential to contend for a starting job at some point.

He has some decent footwork.

He needs to improve his strength and remain out of the trainers room.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And you know what, I will be wrong. No question.

Even professionals who "study film" are wrong. If they were not, there would never be any busts in the draft.

Yes, we are not privy to the inner workings of the team and traits they see that fit.

Of course, if you rubber stamp everything the team does and endorse it, you can always claim victory.

Sorry, that is not my game.

If there is something I agree with, I say so. If I do not, based on my limited information.

You of all people should get that as much as you hate the idea that Free and Hayden play huge roles on this team despite all your "film study" that suggests that they shouldn't.

If you want to compare yourself to pro scouts and pretend that is valid then whatever.

I do think it's interesting that you pat yourself on the back further regarding not 'rubber stamping' everything and then slam him for doing the same thing.

I get that it is important that you keep homer Zoners in check but gmab.

 

[burmafrd]

trolls trolling trolls. OK.


whatever.



I did not like where Green was picked but I can understand that the way the OT's were going they felt they had to make a move. We shall see.
Free is up and down like a yo yo- never know what he is going to do each year. Last year he was up. Hopefully he stays there. If not or if his injuries are catching up to him then Collins seems the logical guy to try and train up to play RT. I think as regards Leary that the Boys would like to upgrade there- especially with someone without a ticking time bomb in their knee- but I doubt it is a big priority with them. Swing tackle and Free's condition at the beginning of camp will be the major concerns as regards the O line. I think Green is a year away from serious contributions - certainly not as the swing tackle. Weems seems to have some fans on the staff- but then so did the Protologist and Costa. Have not seen enough of him to have an opinion one way or another.

 

[Alexander]

If you want to compare yourself to pro scouts and pretend that is valid then whatever.

What? Are you kidding me?

I am not the one running around here and saying I viewed the "All 22" nor am I the one who within the last year, miraculously, has offered his "Fuzzy Thoughts", complete with scouting jargon.

What you see is what you get.

I am not comparing myself to pro scouts, nor am I pretending it is valid.

I am offering, my opinion, right or wrong.[/quote]

 

[chicago JK]

That Green stat Brandt quoted is impressive. guys get injured all the time in the NFL. A lot of times health is the main facor if a player will succeed. You just never know. Green looks to have some interesting measurables.

The counterpoint to Brandt's stat was that the Florida offense was awful. Qb play and coaching may have been a big factor. But Florida had two other lineman drafted and they also had a running back drafted in the third round. I could be mistaken, but did the two other Florida lineman drafted play In a platoon system? If green didn't give up a sack for the full season, then why in the heck was he not on the field for every snap? There have been many players who never got coached up in college who had long and successful NFL careers. It just seems weird that I one breath people talk about the Cowboys dominant line, and in the other breath are already counting green as a swing tackle or future starter when 1) his teams offense was awful, 2) he has been injured, 3) got very little press, and 4) was rotated with another player. Not saying you count out that player, but I am much more of a "show me on the field" guy.

This draft, more so than usual, appeared to be a beauty In The eye of the beholder type draft. I assume ratings were all over the board for rounds 3-7. I guess some teams had guys rated in the 7th round who were picked in the third or fourth round. I would guess some teams had green as a third round grade while others had him as a late round draft pick. More so than years past, I expect a lot more misses with this overall draft.

 

[CyberB0b]

I just think Green needs some serious coaching and development. Its just going to take a year or 2. I see a player with potential to contend for a starting job at some point.

Probably needs a lot of luck to stay on the field, as well.

 

[Nightman]

Collins is going to play guard in the pros, not tackle and Leary is gone in a year...Green is Irrelevant???, who's the backup tackle then, who's going to groom to take over for Free in two years??? Parnell isn't here anymore and Weems is just a guy, Parnell played last year when Free was down with his foot..some of you guys don't think past the starters, teams that win have depth at as many positions as possible, there's always injuries, it's myopic to view Green as irrelevant..,...I guess Dez should be cut too under your ridiculous logic since he couldn't hack his first orientation camp when he was dehydrated and puking and left the field...These guys haven't played a real football game in 5 plus month's and haven't been on a field for a football practice....

A lot of posters love to dig their heels in and never budge off of their initial evaluations. Maybe they had some other pet cat or maybe they didn't do any research(even thought every draft pick was brought in for a visit). But their instant analysis will stick forever.

Green is now one of those guys because of his draft position, his mini-camp story and then getting Collins. I heard people who scouted Humphries say that Green is the one that jumped off the tape. He can grow into the swing OT and hopefully fight to replace Free in the next 2 years.

I have actually seen several posters already declare him a wasted pick. It would be comical if wasn't the same thing we see year after year.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What? Are you kidding me?

I am not the one running around here and saying I viewed the "All 22" nor am I the one who within the last year, miraculously, has offered his "Fuzzy Thoughts", complete with scouting jargon.

What you see is what you get.

I am not comparing myself to pro scouts, nor am I pretending it is valid.

I am offering, my opinion, right or wrong.

Scouting jargon? I use the same stuff they talk about on telecasts and shows. I also have made it exceedingly clear that I am not a scout, coach, or anything remotely of that caliber. Doubly considering that this a football enthusiast message board. I am not bringing up astrophysics at a knitting club, chachi. It's a football forum and complaining about using football jargon should be a nonstarter.

You don't take issue with what I say but rather how I say it. You don't even complain that you cannot understand. It's like a *******ization of the narrative you guys went with when you hammered others because you refused to believe they were scouts. You guys and your desire for the blanket dismissal.

And you know what, I will be wrong. No question.

Even professionals who "study film" are wrong.

You would be wrong but even professionals who study film are wrong. That is what you just said and that is a comparison. It is funny that you compare your success rate with that of pro scouts but then belittle me because I say 3 technique and refer to a person's midsection as bubble.

 

[Risen Star]

Green is almost irrelevant since we acquired Collins. Plus if he couldn't even hack rookie mini camp without issues, I really don't count on him for anything.

We're looking at replacing two starters on that OL in the near future. So I wouldn't call him irrelevant.

Without injury issues I'd say he'd be a mid round value rather than the late round value the Cowboys reached on. He's got ability.

 

[Risen Star]

Someone check this thread for copy and paste errors.

 

[Plankton]

No. I want to review how much of his ranking was due to talent and how much was due to injury concerns.

I'm not making any claims in this thread on how much risk is involved with his injury issues.

The thought came to me when I was thinking about whether Collins should focus on Guard or Tackle. I wanted to contemplate how much difference there might be between Green and Collins in terms of talent to play OT.

Truthfully, it's a silly exercise to speculate upon something which you will never know. The point is, if Green didn't have ankle and shoulder issues, he would have played more. Would he have performed better? We have no idea - I don't believe in the fallacy of the predetermined outcome. What we know is what actually took place - that he missed time across three seasons with ankle and shoulder injuries, but he showed the ability to play on both sides of the line, and excel at times.

In general, I believe that the draft media should just omit medical and character from their rankings and let the fans decide how much they think those issues affect their draft value. The analysts could give them a separate grade for medical or character concerns. It is hard enough for the media to attempt to rank all of the players in the draft just based on talent. Once you throw medical and character into the mix, it becomes almost impossible for the draft media to come up with accurate rankings.

The bolded is a hoot. The draft media should report on what they deem important to report on - it's the job of the reader to either accept it, or choose to be informed elsewhere, quite possibly with their own eyes. How they rank guys is their business. If you don't like it, either come up with your own, or don't read theirs.

TBH, if it weren't for the draft media pointing out pesky things like medical histories and character, in many cases, it wouldn't filter down to the fans. Fans shouldn't be lazy, or complain that someone is providing a full reporting on the player.

 

[speedkilz88]

I posted these in the draft zone. The ratings are from nfl.com.

Round 2 Pick 2 (34) Smith, Donovan OT 6'6"338 Penn St. Buccaneers 5.6
Round 2 Pick 17 (49) Morse, Mitch OC 6'5"305 Missouri Chiefs 5.6
Round 2 Pick 21 (53) Fisher, Jake OT 6'6"306 Oregon Bengals 5.8
Round 2 Pick 25 (57) Havenstein, Rob OT 6'7"321 Wisconsin Rams 5.6
Round 2 Pick 27 (59) Sambrailo, Ty OT 6'6"311 Colorado St. Broncos 5.4
Round 2 Pick 29 (61) Marpet, Ali OG 6'4"307 Hobart Buccaneers 5.5
Round 3 Pick 2 (66) Poutasi, Jeremiah OG 6'5"335 Utah Titans 5.3
Round 3 Pick 3 (67) Cann, AJ OG 6'3"313 South Carolina Jaguars 5.7
Round 3 Pick 7 (71) Grasu, Hroniss OC 6'3"297 Oregon Bears 5.5
Round 3 Pick 8 (72) Brown, Jamon OT 6'4"323 Louisville Rams 5.4
Round 3 Pick 17 (81) Miller, John OG 6'2"303 Louisville Bills 5.3
Round 3 Pick 27 (91) Green, Chaz OT 6'5"314 Florida Cowboys 5.4
Round 4 Pick 3 (102) Williams, Daryl OG 6'5"337 Oklahoma Panthers 5.3
Round 4 Pick 11 (110) Clemmings, TJ OT 6'5"309 Pittsburgh Vikings 5.9
Round 4 Pick 12 (111) Jackson, Tre' OG 6'4"330 Florida St. Patriots 5.7
Round 4 Pick 13 (112) Kouandjio, Arie OG 6'5"310 Alabama Commanders 5.2
Round 4 Pick 15 (114) Douglas, Jamil OG 6'4"304 Arizona St. Dolphins 5.2
Round 4 Pick 20 (119) Donnal, Andrew OT 6'6"313 Iowa Rams 5.3
Round 4 Pick 29 (128) Feliciano, Jon OG 6'4"323 Miami Raiders 4.8
Round 4 Pick 31 (130) Poole, Terry OG 6'5"307 San Diego St. Seahawks 5.0
Round 4 Pick 32 (131) Mason, Shaq OC 6'1"300 Georgia Tech Patriots 5.3
Round 4 Pick 34 (133) Garcia, Max OC 6'4"309 Florida Broncos 5.4
Round 4 Pick 35 (134) Glowinski, Mark OG 6'4"307 West Virginia Seahawks 5.5


http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-position/dt-by-position-inputl

 

[CyberB0b]

Hmm. Player has an affirmed history of injuries and being soft.

Leaves both practices at rookie minicamp with minor nicks.

Yeah, just unreasonable.

You: oft injured player is a reach that I must support. Leave brain at door.

In fact, the idea this player left for issues in a "non-contact" rookie mini-camp?

That tells me he is not only soft but poorly conditioned as well.

Maybe they pulled him to prevent injury. Did that ever pop into your skull?