What if Chaz Green didn't have injury issues

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If Collins makes the move to LG, then Green's the odds-on swing OT next season and probably going forward after Leary takes his degenerative knee elsewhere next year. Free's just signed a reasonable extension and isn't going anywhere for a couple of years, at least.

Nobody ought to be counting on a mid-round rookie for anything yet, anyway. Whatever he gets at his draft position, he'll have to earn. But he was a top high school prospect coming out for a reason. If he's go the right attitude and puts in the work, he'll have the inside track for that wide open swing tackle role. That's an important position because it lets us go deeper on gameday at other places on the roster, which we're going to want to do if we're carrying 3 QBs and an extra LB or so this season.

Not only that but we only had 6 OL that were draft picks or veterans going into the draft. Hawkins, Hillis, and Weems were the depth behind Mack. I don't know that we have ever carried less than 9 OL and as you point out, he is someone that has a real shot to be active game days as the swing tackle.

The krew has apparently groupthinked into disliking Green. Their disposition is unanimous.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

Glad we can invest a third round choice on a player that won't contribute any time soon.

I'm guessing you thought the same thing about the Cowboys' 4th round pick Hitchens last year. And he contributed early on.

 

[Idgit]

Your krew certainly likes to try and come up with reasons to discredit people ad hominem style so you can dismiss everything that they say with a blanket dismissal.

I don't disagree that JP was his pet cat but he is hardly alone in having pet cats and that doesn't make your blanket dismissal valid.

OT *is* more important than OG, so getting that swing role pinned down is pretty important. We already have our swing interior player in Bernardeau who can play LG/C/RG at a high level (for a backupP xwalker's right that replacing Leary with Collins doesn't do all that much to help us in the short term, so it's pretty important that we find a guy and not have to carry two or not really have someone who can play at all.

I hope we're all mature enough to understand that whatever happened at rookie minicamp with Green it's way too early to tell how he'll actually turn out. I did think we were supposed to be moving away from injury risk players, though, so his selection is a bit of a mystery to me, too. We must really like his potential to play both sides.

 

[xwalker]

You just value that more because you have an unhealthy hatred of Doug Free and still have unresolved romantic issues with Parnell.

I get it. I wanted a one-technique DT pretty bad. But I don't go starting threads about being bitter and throwing out "what ifs".

Again, it's not about Free. It's about Collins and Green and how much difference there is in their ability to play OT in the NFL.

 

[jnday]

The reality was that he had cramping due to dehydration in his calf. Nick is a nebulous term that can mean many things but I take it to mean an actual injury which he didn't have.

You guys are really good at cheering each other on at least.

Alexander is one of the best posters on any of these boards. He doesn't need cheerleaders. He has common sense and reality on his side. I am just a fan. It takes five posters to gang up on him and he still owns the thread.

 

[Idgit]

Not only that but we only had 6 OL that were draft picks or veterans going into the draft. Hawkins, Hillis, and Weems were the depth behind Mack. I don't know that we have ever carried less than 9 OL and as you point out, he is someone that has a real shot to be active game days as the swing tackle.

The krew has apparently groupthinked into disliking Green. Their disposition is unanimous.

He's an easy target as people wanted a RB at that spot and he has an injury history and then had trouble in the mini camp. He's a whipping boy now. The only thing that matters, though, is if he can play. There's nothing we can do about dislike for a draft pick who hasn't even put on his pads yet.

Bear in mind, the crew you mention was fond of calling Doug Free slop for years, too. Until he wasn't and they denied it. And by 'they' I mean Risen Star, who I assume you're referring to. I don't think they're serious. I think they do it to rile up the locals and giggle about it after. But you never know.

 

[Idgit]

Alexander is one of the best posters on any of these boards. He doesn't need cheerleaders. He has common sense and reality on his side. I am just a fan. It takes five posters to gang up on him and he still owns the thread.

He's definitely got his fans. I'd be more positively disposed towards him if he didn't tend to tail off his posts/day so dramatically during the long winning streaks. Or if he were more serious about owning some of the arguments he makes after they've been exposed as obviously wrong after the games are actually played.

 

[ThreeandOut]

Tier 1:
1 5 Brandon Scherff
1 9 Ereck Flowers
1 13 Andrus Peat
1 21 Cedric Ogbuehi
1 24 D. J. Humphries - Might be as good as any of them.
La'el Collins would be in Tier 1 also.

Tier 2:
2 34 Donovan Smith - High upside with overwhelming size, needs some work on technique.
2 53 Jake Fisher
Without the injury issues, Green should be about here:

Tier 3:
2 57 Rob Havenstein - Stiff and not overly athletic. Received better coaching than some others.
2 59 Ty Sambrailo
3 72 Jamon Brown

3 91 Chaz Green

Tier 4:
4 102 Daryl Williams

IMO, without the injury issues, Green could be in tier 2 or definitely at the top of tier 3. I can easily see Green being better than all of the players in tier 3.

There was a big drop between Green and Daryl Williams in Tier 4 because Williams probably needs to move to Guard in the NFL.

Side note: La'ell Collins was a better college player than #9 pick Ereck Flowers, IMO. I can see some teams liking FLowers better as prospect due overwhelming size and more length, but in college I thought Collins was generally better. They both look like RTs in the NFL to me.

If the Cowboys felt Green could come in and be their swing tackle, I bet this ranking is pretty close to how the Cowboys felt about him. I remember seeing past Cowboy draft boards where players selected in the 1st round had a 3rd round grade on the Cowboys boards. In most cases, they didn't feel these players could come in and take one of the two backup positions on the active roster.

 

[TwoCentPlain]

No one can predict injuries. The Jags picked picked Fowler who had no injury history in college. Within one hour of his first practice, he tears his ACL in a non-contact practice.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Alexander is one of the best posters on any of these boards. He doesn't need cheerleaders. He has common sense and reality on his side. I am just a fan. It takes five posters to gang up on him and he still owns the thread.

Don't want to talk about why he actually went off the field but just want to cheer huh? Now we just need to get dallasdave to do the hammer emote a few times and it can be even sides!

Your krew's rationalizations are amusing, 99.5%.

You say he is based in reality. I say the reality was different than the nicks he claimed as he was not injured. Your response is to go on repeat. Nice. Now you can send me more nasty PMs and demand to know whats wrong with me.

 

[xwalker]

Why can you see the reality of the situation so easily? Why can't others?

He does not "see" anything. He has some media draft rankings that he believes are 100% accurate. Any player drafted before those rankings is automatically a reach in his opinion. Once that occurs, he looks for any and all reasons to validate that claim.

Just look back a last year and the Hitchens pick. He went on and on about how terrible that pick was because the draft media had him ranked lower. The results were that Hitchens started 11 games as a rookie, including 4 starts when Carter was available but didn't start.

 

[jnday]

He's definitely got his fans. I'd be more positively disposed towards him if he didn't tend to tail off his posts/day so dramatically during the long winning seasons. Or if he were more serious about owning some of the arguments he makes after they've been exposed as obviously wrong after the games are actually played.

He has been right on the money for 20 years. The team surprised everyone last season and now those that was wrong during that time , wants to talk smack. Another point to consider is that when things are going well, there is no reason to point out team faults. There is not that much to point out when the record is 12-4. I will give him credit. He doesn't feel the need to report posters to the mods if they disagree with him. He takes it like a man.

 

[ThreeandOut]

Just look back a last year and the Hitchens pick. He went on and on about how terrible that pick was because the draft media had him ranked lower. The results were that Hitchens started 11 games as a rookie, including 4 starts when Carter was available but didn't start.

Green may very well be this year's Hitchens...a player that was initially perceived as a reach that you were glad you had by the end of the year.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He does not "see" anything. He has some media draft rankings that he believes are 100% accurate. Any player drafted before those rankings is automatically a reach in his opinion. Once that occurs, he looks for any and all reasons to validate that claim.

Just look back a last year and the Hitchens pick. He went on and on about how terrible that pick was because the draft media had him ranked lower. The results were that Hitchens started 11 games as a rookie, including 4 starts when Carter was available but didn't start.

He knows that. He is just trolling. Thing I have come to realize that as much as I find the condescending dismissive tone that they use towards 'Zoners' as they call us irritating, they really hate it coming back at them more. They flip the golden rule.

They aren't going to argue on merit. They aren't going to be respectful. They aren't going to ever admit that they were wrong. After all these years it isn't going to change so I refuse to sweat it anymore.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He has been right on the money for 20 years. The team surprised everyone last season and now those that was wrong during that time , wants to talk smack. Another point to consider is that when things are going well, there is no reason to point out team faults. There is not that much to point out when the record is 12-4. I will give him credit. He doesn't feel the need to report posters to the mods if they disagree with him. He takes it like a man.

Actually he has changed a lot since the Ranch days. He strikes me as jaded.

 

[jnday]

Don't want to talk about why he actually went off the field but just want to cheer huh? Now we just need to get dallasdave to do the hammer emote a few times and it can be even sides!

Your krew's rationalizations are amusing, 99.5%.

You say he is based in reality. I say the reality was different than the nicks he claimed as he was not injured. Your response is to go on repeat. Nice. Now you can send me more nasty PMs and demand to know whats wrong with me.

I am not engaging in any more conversations with you Fuzzy, so please quit responding to my post. I am saying this in as gentle of manner as possible to keep from offending you.

 

[Idgit]

He has been right on the money for 20 years. The team surprised everyone last season and now those that was wrong during that time , wants to talk smack. Another point to consider is that when things are going well, there is no reason to point out team faults. There is not that much to point out when the record is 12-4. I will give him credit. He doesn't feel the need to report posters to the mods if they disagree with him. He takes it like a man.

Lol. Well, since you and I agree on almost nothing, it's probably not a shock to hear that I think you're wrong here, too. A huge percentage of the positions Alexander has taken on CZ, anyway, during the Garrett regime have been just dead wrong. And a significant minority of those, if I'm being completely frank, I don't even believe *he* believes when he posts them. The fact alone that he almost disappears when the team is actually winning--and I have no doubt he's posting prolifically elsewhere, as you mention--tells me all I need to know about his motivations for posting so many negative takes about a 12-4 season over here. He's a fairly bright guy, though. He knows his Cowboys and isn't afraid to have an opinion. The site relies on those differences of opinion, so it ends up being a necessary negative, I guess.

As for reporting posts, I should say there's no 'taking it like a man' involved there. The staff here, we rely on the community to help us police the threads because we can't be everywhere all at once, so it's really important that you guys give us heads up where it's merited. At least, I really appreciate it.

I get my share of complaints from both sides, by the way. Mostly by PM, but sometimes in the form of a reported thread. More of them from the 'homers,' but that's in part because there's something to the notion that people come here specifically to troll Cowboys die hards. That can be from fans of other teams, posing as Cowboys fans, or by other legitimate Cowboys fans who just enjoy watching the world burn and then talking about it on other forums. This is pretty much the nature of message boards, though.

 

[xwalker]

If the Cowboys felt Green could come in and be their swing tackle, I bet this ranking is pretty close to how the Cowboys felt about him. I remember seeing past Cowboy draft boards where players selected in the 1st round had a 3rd round grade on the Cowboys boards. In most cases, they didn't feel these players could come in and take one of the two backup positions on the active roster.

Fans and the draft media love high upside players and forget about the value of ready-now players. IMO, a player that can contribute as a rookie has to be moved up the draft board relative to a player with similar physical talent that has no chance to be ready as a rookie. I can see a team moving a player up as much as 1 full round for being ready now.

 

[xwalker]

He has been right on the money for 20 years. The team surprised everyone last season and now those that was wrong during that time , wants to talk smack. Another point to consider is that when things are going well, there is no reason to point out team faults. There is not that much to point out when the record is 12-4. I will give him credit. He doesn't feel the need to report posters to the mods if they disagree with him. He takes it like a man.

There is not much to post about when the team is winning??? That make no sense. It only makes sense if you can only post about things that are negative.

 

[jnday]

He does not "see" anything. He has some media draft rankings that he believes are 100% accurate. Any player drafted before those rankings is automatically a reach in his opinion. Once that occurs, he looks for any and all reasons to validate that claim.

Just look back a last year and the Hitchens pick. He went on and on about how terrible that pick was because the draft media had him ranked lower. The results were that Hitchens started 11 games as a rookie, including 4 starts when Carter was available but didn't start.

I remember you saying several times that Frederick couldn't play in a Zone blocking scheme right up to the draft. We had that debate for several days. I don't think it is hard to find topics that each of us we wrong about. Alexander has been right much more than wrong. If it wasn't true, it wouldn't take several of you guys to debate a point with him. The same thing applies to Risen Star.