What will it take for Dez to overtake Megatron?

[Doomsday101]

Oh, and the question wasn't who was better last season or the season before. It's who is better NOW (i.e. who is going to have a better 2013 season). If you look at the data on both players, you can see that their trending lines are going to cross this year, with Dez surpassing Johnson in all important categories. It's not a matter of looking at what's already happened, you have to project what's going to happen. And some of you are utterly ignorant when it comes to data analysis, you have no clue. None. It's embarrassing, really. LOL.

If Dallas does not win I really don't care. I love having Dez but I would rather see a lot of guys involved in the offense and win games than to pad stats just to claim him as better. If Dallas can run better and others are stepping up then it is may take some stats away from Dez bottom line is winning. Not who had the best numbers.

 

[DFWJC]

Calvin Johnson had 16 TDs in 2011 and 12 in 2010.
Scoring TDs is not at all an issue with him.

 

[dstovall5]

I think if Dallas spreads the ball ideally and our Running game is solid, Dez wont see any eye popping numbers this year. Also, you have to remember that Tony Romo isn't going to throw the ball as much this year. Last year Tony threw the ball over 100 times more then his average, you wont see that again, or if you do we're in trouble. All this doesn't mean Dez will have a bad year though, he just most likely wont have a 120 catch, 1600 yards, 16 TD season. He'll probably be around the 90 catch, 1250 yard, and 12 TD ball park, which is still very good.

Also, like others have pointed out. The reason Calvin didn't have many TDs last year was NOT because he doesn't have "multiple dimensions" to his game or because he lacks "lateral quickness". The dude got tackled 6 times within the 1 yard line, that's a fluke, but people can ignore it if they wish to do so.

 

[coult44]

So let me get this straight. Calvin is the best WR in the game because he is bigger, stronger, and faster. I like CJ, he is a physical specimen. He is on a team where the entire offense is based around him. They don't have many other options, so his stats will be great as long as he is healthy. But let's get something back on track. Being bigger, stronger, and faster does not mean your the best WR. The best WR of all time was Jerry Rice. The difference was he worked harder than anyone, was smarter than everyone, and had a desire to prove he was the best regardless of his physical traits. Most importantly, he was a winner. CJ has never won anything.. If Dez were to win, and be one of the leaders of a SB winning team. Plus have the stats he had last year to go along with it, he could take over that title with ease...But, my question is this...Would he care, and would it matter? I hope not.....I'd rather him consume himself with being called a great leader, an elite reciever, and a Superbowl Champion, than someone who worries about breaking records and accumulating stats...CJ lost respect last year while saying all that stuff about yards and records..When DEZ talks, he talks about winning...That's what I love about him...He just wants to win....

 

[dstovall5]

This thread has brought up a bunch of talking out of the rear. I knew some would think he's the better WR, and that's fine, but listening to people's reason about why he's better is just asinine. So many outlandish remarks going on. Gotta love people's optimism here about Dez though, I think he definitely has the highest expectation of the Boys. Lets just hope he can handle it all.

 

[blackbull]

So let me get this straight. Calvin is the best WR in the game because he is bigger, stronger, and faster. I like CJ, he is a physical specimen. He is on a team where the entire offense is based around him. They don't have many other options, so his stats will be great as long as he is healthy. But let's get something back on track. Being bigger, stronger, and faster does not mean your the best WR. The best WR of all time was Jerry Rice. The difference was he worked harder than anyone, was smarter than everyone, and had a desire to prove he was the best regardless of his physical traits. Most importantly, he was a winner. CJ has never won anything.. If Dez were to win, and be one of the leaders of a SB winning team. Plus have the stats he had last year to go along with it, he could take over that title with ease...But, my question is this...Would he care, and would it matter? I hope not.....I'd rather him consume himself with being called a great leader, an elite reciever, and a Superbowl Champion, than someone who worries about breaking records and accumulating stats...CJ lost respect last year while saying all that stuff about yards and records..When DEZ talks, he talks about winning...That's what I love about him...He just wants to win....

Thank you. I see nobody answered whether they thoughtcalvin is better than Rice. Dez can be the best ever. Leadership included. Where was Calvin when Titus young was sabotaging plays vs Green Bay? I read that the center was the only one who confronted him on the field. If Dez shows Irvin type leadership as well as stats and wins you better believe he's better than Calvin.

 

[Vintage]

So let me get this straight. Calvin is the best WR in the game because he is bigger, stronger, and faster. I like CJ, he is a physical specimen. He is on a team where the entire offense is based around him. They don't have many other options, so his stats will be great as long as he is healthy. But let's get something back on track. Being bigger, stronger, and faster does not mean your the best WR. The best WR of all time was Jerry Rice. The difference was he worked harder than anyone, was smarter than everyone, and had a desire to prove he was the best regardless of his physical traits. Most importantly, he was a winner. CJ has never won anything.. If Dez were to win, and be one of the leaders of a SB winning team. Plus have the stats he had last year to go along with it, he could take over that title with ease...But, my question is this...Would he care, and would it matter? I hope not.....I'd rather him consume himself with being called a great leader, an elite reciever, and a Superbowl Champion, than someone who worries about breaking records and accumulating stats...CJ lost respect last year while saying all that stuff about yards and records..When DEZ talks, he talks about winning...That's what I love about him...He just wants to win....

First... Calvin isn't the reason the Lions aren't a winning team. He can't help what he is surrounded with.

Secondly. if you are questioning what he has won, how doesn't that apply to Dez, too? He hasn't won anything either. Guess he isn't a winner, either.

 

[Nova]

So let me get this straight. Calvin is the best WR in the game because he is bigger, stronger, and faster. I like CJ, he is a physical specimen. He is on a team where the entire offense is based around him. They don't have many other options, so his stats will be great as long as he is healthy. But let's get something back on track. Being bigger, stronger, and faster does not mean your the best WR. The best WR of all time was Jerry Rice. The difference was he worked harder than anyone, was smarter than everyone, and had a desire to prove he was the best regardless of his physical traits. Most importantly, he was a winner. CJ has never won anything.. If Dez were to win, and be one of the leaders of a SB winning team. Plus have the stats he had last year to go along with it, he could take over that title with ease...But, my question is this...Would he care, and would it matter? I hope not.....I'd rather him consume himself with being called a great leader, an elite reciever, and a Superbowl Champion, than someone who worries about breaking records and accumulating stats...CJ lost respect last year while saying all that stuff about yards and records..When DEZ talks, he talks about winning...That's what I love about him...He just wants to win....

No he's the best because he shattered rice's record.

You realize that being on a team where the offense is based around him means that the defenses he's playing are based on stopping him too, right?

No, being bigger, stronger, and faster doesn't make someone a good receiver, but you have to realize how good he can be on just that alone. Seriously...

6'5" with a 6'10" wingspan and a 43 to 45 inch vertical. If the throw is good, it is very difficult to stop him based on that alone.

 

[Nova]

Thank you. I see nobody answered whether they thoughtcalvin is better than Rice. Dez can be the best ever. Leadership included. Where was Calvin when Titus young was sabotaging plays vs Green Bay? I read that the center was the only one who confronted him on the field. If Dez shows Irvin type leadership as well as stats and wins you better believe he's better than Calvin.

Johnson isn't better than Rice and maybe never will be, but he's the best WR in the league right now.

 

[blackbull]

Johnson isn't better than Rice and maybe never will be, but he's the best WR in the league right now.

I'm addressing the people saying Dez can't be better. Ridiculous.

 

[Nova]

I'm addressing the people saying Dez can't be better. Ridiculous.

Gotcha. Yeah he could be better. Just won't ever be physically superior.

 

[cowboys2233]

If Dallas does not win I really don't care. I love having Dez but I would rather see a lot of guys involved in the offense and win games than to pad stats just to claim him as better. If Dallas can run better and others are stepping up then it is may take some stats away from Dez bottom line is winning. Not who had the best numbers.

Yeah, but that's one of the important categories I'm talking about. When it comes to TDs per receptions and more importantly, TDs per targets, Dez utterly destroyed Johnson last year. TDs win games. I would argue Johnson's 2011 season was MUCH better than his 2012 season because he had much better TD/reception and TD/target ratios and lo and behold, that was Detroit's most successful season in a long time. TDs win games, period. Yardage by itself is a ridiculously unimportant stat. And Dez is trending up big time in these areas, each season has been better than the last and if he continues trending upward at the same rate, he'll surpass Johnson's best season this year. And the Cowboys will certainly benefit with higher red zone efficiency and ultimately, wins.

 

[cowboys2233]

So let me get this straight. Calvin is the best WR in the game because he is bigger, stronger, and faster. I like CJ, he is a physical specimen. He is on a team where the entire offense is based around him. They don't have many other options, so his stats will be great as long as he is healthy. But let's get something back on track. Being bigger, stronger, and faster does not mean your the best WR. The best WR of all time was Jerry Rice. The difference was he worked harder than anyone, was smarter than everyone, and had a desire to prove he was the best regardless of his physical traits. Most importantly, he was a winner. CJ has never won anything.. If Dez were to win, and be one of the leaders of a SB winning team. Plus have the stats he had last year to go along with it, he could take over that title with ease...But, my question is this...Would he care, and would it matter? I hope not.....I'd rather him consume himself with being called a great leader, an elite reciever, and a Superbowl Champion, than someone who worries about breaking records and accumulating stats...CJ lost respect last year while saying all that stuff about yards and records..When DEZ talks, he talks about winning...That's what I love about him...He just wants to win....

This is a point I brought up before. Don't diss Jerry's Rice's physical traits because he wasn't the biggest or fastest. He had what Emmitt had, the ability to come out of cuts as fast as he went into them and created great separation because of it. And his running style was as fluid as it gets, so he never lost the ball in the air. Ever. Those are physical traits, make no mistake about it. Yes, Jerry was driven, yes he worked harder than anyone. Do you really think that by itself made him the greatest receiver to play the game? Please. He was the best ever because of those aforementioned physical traits, he WAS the best player on the field.

 

[Texas_Pete]

Johnson isn't better than Rice and maybe never will be, but he's the best WR in the league right now.

Not to derail my thread but, I wonder what Irvin would have looked like in a West Coast Offense like the one Rice thrived in? And I wonder if Rice's numbers would have dipped playing on a team who's offense was more balanced and just so happened to feature the NFL's all-time leading rusher.

 

[Doomsday101]

Not to derail my thread but, I wonder what Irvin would have looked like in a West Coast Offense like the one Rice thrived in? And I wonder if Rice's numbers would have dipped playing on a team who's offense was more balanced and just so happened to feature the NFL's all-time leading rusher.

I'm sure his numbers would have been better. I'm sure Troy numbers would have been better but I don't think they would have the 3 SB in 4 years.

 

[cowboys2233]

Not to derail my thread but, I wonder what Irvin would have looked like in a West Coast Offense like the one Rice thrived in? And I wonder if Rice's numbers would have dipped playing on a team who's offense was more balanced and just so happened to feature the NFL's all-time leading rusher.

To my point earlier about TDs/receptions being much more important than yardage. In 2011, Johnson had his best TD/reception ratio, at 1 touchdown for every six receptions. Jerry Rice had four seasons with a better ratio (and a bunch of others right around that), including an insane 1 TD for every 2.95 catches earlier in his career. Can you imagine? Every third catch resulted in a touchdown. That my friends, is pure efficiency. He was absolutely deadly in the red zone and San Fran won a whole bunch of games largely because of that.

 

[Nova]

Yeah, but that's one of the important categories I'm talking about. When it comes to TDs per receptions and more importantly, TDs per targets, Dez utterly destroyed Johnson last year. TDs win games. I would argue Johnson's 2011 season was MUCH better than his 2012 season because he had much better TD/reception and TD/target ratios and lo and behold, that was Detroit's most successful season in a long time. TDs win games, period. Yardage by itself is a ridiculously unimportant stat. And Dez is trending up big time in these areas, each season has been better than the last and if he continues trending upward at the same rate, he'll surpass Johnson's best season this year. And the Cowboys will certainly benefit with higher red zone efficiency and ultimately, wins.

I agree. 2011 was a better year for 'Tron than 2012. It seems funny at first, but I'd take 1,600 and 16 over 300 more yards and a quarter of the TDs.

But Bryant was still behind Johnson in 2012 in terms of production per opportunity. Again, while Johnson had a jaw dropping 200 targets last year, a little less than 140 of those were actually catchable. It's not a perfect science, but even if you extrapolate Bryant's production per catchable target, Dez would've been behind by about 150 yards.

 

[Nova]

Not to derail my thread but, I wonder what Irvin would have looked like in a West Coast Offense like the one Rice thrived in? And I wonder if Rice's numbers would have dipped playing on a team who's offense was more balanced and just so happened to feature the NFL's all-time leading rusher.

Really tough to say. Obviously he would have had better numbers, but I don't think he would've had Rice's career.

 

[cowboys2233]

I agree. 2011 was a better year for 'Tron than 2012. It seems funny at first, but I'd take 1,600 and 16 over 300 more yards and a quarter of the TDs.

But Bryant was still behind Johnson in 2012 in terms of production per opportunity. Again, while Johnson had a jaw dropping 200 targets last year, a little less than 140 of those were actually catchable. It's not a perfect science, but even if you extrapolate Bryant's production per catchable target, Dez would've been behind by about 150 yards.

Production in the middle of the field is one thing, production in the red zone is entirely different. And back to my point about TDs/reception. Dez was much more "productive" in that sense. He scored a TD on every 7.67 receptions while Johnson needed an embarrassing 24.4 receptions for every TD. Wouldn't you take Bryant's much higher efficiency and 7 extra TDs over 150 yards? I sure would. Sounds a lot more productive to me. In Bryant's first season, he caught a TD on every 7.5 receptions, in year 2, it was a TD for every 7 receptions. Last year, it was a TD for every 7.67 receptions and much better during the second half of the season. I suspect he'll come very close, if not surpass Johnson's best year, 1 TD for every six receptions, this year. And will have a bunch of those seasons after that, whereas Johnson won't sniff that ratio again. He sure as hell didn't last year, despite his glorious (and virtually worthless) 1,900 yards. Just my opinion.

 

[Nova]

Production in the middle of the field is one thing, production in the red zone is entirely different. And back to my point about TDs/reception. Dez was much more "productive" in that sense. He scored a TD on every 7.67 receptions while Johnson needed an embarrassing 24.4 receptions for every TD. Wouldn't you take Bryant's much higher efficiency and 7 extra TDs over 150 yards? I sure would. Sounds a lot more productive to me. In Bryant's first season, he caught a TD on every 7.5 receptions, in year 2, it was a TD for every 7 receptions. Last year, it was a TD for every 7.67 receptions and much better during the second half of the season. I suspect he'll come very close, if not surpass Johnson's best year, 1 TD for every six receptions, this year. And will have a bunch of those seasons after that, whereas Johnson won't sniff that ratio again. He sure as hell didn't last year, despite his glorious (and virtually worthless) 1,900 yards. Just my opinion.

And James Jones had a TD every 4.5 receptions. He's not even close to either guys.

I'm not disputing that TDs are important, but you have to take everything into context. It's not like Johnson has trouble scoring TDs. He may not be as consistent as Bryant has been over his short career, but he's been better in the category you're talking about 3 separate times. Not sure why you would think that he won't return to scoring more TDs next year when that's actually been the trend. One year off, one year on sorta deal.