What will it take for Dez to overtake Megatron?

[cowboys2233]

And James Jones had a TD every 4.5 receptions. He's not even close to either guys.

I'm not disputing that TDs are important, but you have to take everything into context. It's not like Johnson has trouble scoring TDs. He may not be as consistent as Bryant has been over his short career, but he's been better in the category you're talking about 3 separate times. Not sure why you would think that he won't return to scoring more TDs next year when that's actually been the trend. One year off, one year on sorta deal.

I would agree that one season does not make a player great but James Jones had a heck of a year. And maybe Johnson will, who knows. Just have a gut feeling that we've seen the very best of Calvin Johnson and we haven't come close to seeing the best of Dez. Guess we'll just have to wait and see. But I for one am glad we've got Dez rather than Calvin. And yes, probably a little biased. Calvin's got the stink of the Detroit Lions organization all over him. LOL.

 

[coult44]

No he's the best because he shattered rice's record.

You realize that being on a team where the offense is based around him means that the defenses he's playing are based on stopping him too, right?

No, being bigger, stronger, and faster doesn't make someone a good receiver, but you have to realize how good he can be on just that alone. Seriously...

6'5" with a 6'10" wingspan and a 43 to 45 inch vertical. If the throw is good, it is very difficult to stop him based on that alone.

Shattered, by what maybe 100 yards? Let me ask you a question. How many times during Rices prime years did he have less that 10 touchdowns, scratch that, 13 touchdowns. CJ had 5 TD's last year.....5....Didn't our own Dwayne Harris have that many TD's last year? CJ was targeted 43% more than Rice was during their career best years. As great as CJ is, and as great as a physical specimen he is, He's not as dominate as Rice was...With your logic, shouldn't he be unstoppable? With that wingspan, shouldn't he be able to have a crazy amount of red zone touchdowns. I'm not arguing that he is a great receiver. But, he's not as far in front of Dez as some would say...

 

[coult44]

First... Calvin isn't the reason the Lions aren't a winning team. He can't help what he is surrounded with.

Secondly. if you are questioning what he has won, how doesn't that apply to Dez, too? He hasn't won anything either. Guess he isn't a winner, either.

My entire argument is he isn't that much of a better receiver than Dez. And IN NO WAY is his status as the best WR in football unapproachable.

 

[DFWJC]

Shattered, by what maybe 100 yards? Let me ask you a question. How many times during Rices prime years did he have less that 10 touchdowns, scratch that, 13 touchdowns. CJ had 5 TD's last year.....5....Didn't our own Dwayne Harris have that many TD's last year? CJ was targeted 43% more than Rice was during their career best years. As great as CJ is, and as great as a physical specimen he is, He's not as dominate as Rice was...With your logic, shouldn't he be unstoppable? With that wingspan, shouldn't he be able to have a crazy amount of red zone touchdowns. I'm not arguing that he is a great receiver. But, he's not as far in front of Dez as some would say...

Barring injury of Stafford orCalvin, I'll bet anyone here any amount they want that Calvin Johnson will not have only 5 TDs last year. Getting tackled almost right on the goal line 6-7 times was a total fluke. The dude had 27 TDs the two years before.

 

[Nova]

Shattered, by what maybe 100 yards? Let me ask you a question. How many times during Rices prime years did he have less that 10 touchdowns, scratch that, 13 touchdowns. CJ had 5 TD's last year.....5....Didn't our own Dwayne Harris have that many TD's last year? CJ was targeted 43% more than Rice was during their career best years. As great as CJ is, and as great as a physical specimen he is, He's not as dominate as Rice was...With your logic, shouldn't he be unstoppable? With that wingspan, shouldn't he be able to have a crazy amount of red zone touchdowns. I'm not arguing that he is a great receiver. But, he's not as far in front of Dez as some would say...

Yes. Shattered. 115 yards more. You do realize that no one else has even crossed the 1,800 yd mark, right? So beating Rice's record of roughly 1850 yds by 115 yards speaks volumes, don't ya think?

Where are you getting your target figures from? To my knowledge targets weren't recorded until around 2006ish. Both players did, however, have the exact same amount of receptions, Johnson just averaged a full yard more.

I'm not, nor have I ever said that Johnson is as dominant or better than Rice-- only Moss has approached that thus far. Maybe Owens. I'm not even saying Johnson had a better year than Rice. What I AM saying is that he shattered his record for most yards in a season.

And I'm not saying he should be unstoppable with the measurables he has. You're taking things out of context. I mentioned that stuff doesn't make you a good receiver. But you have to realize how much of an instant advantage that is for him. He's 3 whole inches taller than Dez, with a half foot better vertical. And he's faster. The only other WR that comes close to that kind of freakish athleticism is Randy Moss.

Lastly, I disagree. I think Calvin Johnson is considerably ahead of Dez. That could change, but right now Dez is in the category with Demaryius, AJ, and Julio. And somewhere in there Fitzgerald, Andre and Marshall are still very much important factors in this league.

One thing is clear, cut, and dry among the consensus. There is Calvin, and there's everyone else. He's in his own tier right now.

 

[koolaid]

Dez Bryant could be your Jerry Rice. Not sayin he is, but he definately is capable of being better than Calvin Johnson.

I totally think Dez could be as good as Rice (in terms of any given season, a career like that will be tough). But I think that Calvin is going to go down as the best WR ever. JMO

 

[Lonestar94]

I totally think Dez could be as good as Rice (in terms of any given season, a career like that will be tough). But I think that Calvin is going to go down as the best WR ever. JMO

Calvin is definately the combination of Jerry Rice and Randy Moss. That alone is scary enough.

 

[cowboys2233]

I totally think Dez could be as good as Rice (in terms of any given season, a career like that will be tough). But I think that Calvin is going to go down as the best WR ever. JMO

Please. Calvin is the Dwight Howard of the receiving world. And Dwight Howard will never be as good as Michael Jordan. Jerry Rice and Randy Moss were much more Michael Jordan than Calvin Johnson will ever be. And Dez Bryant has a chance to be that too. Was Dwight Howard bigger and stronger than Michael Jordan? Sure. But Jordan had the quickness, the hops, the athleticism that Dwight Howard doesn't. And I think you can draw the same comparisons between Calvin Johnson and Dez Bryant. Word.

 

[cowboys2233]

But you have to realize how much of an instant advantage that is for him. He's 3 whole inches taller than Dez, with a half foot better vertical. And he's faster. The only other WR that comes close to that kind of freakish athleticism is Randy Moss.

A half foot, huh? I don't believe that for one second, not a single second. I don't even care if you break out combine numbers, there are other factors that come into play there. Was one guy given more leeway to take a step first? And it's one thing to jump when you're standing still, it's a whole other thing to leap when you're running full speed. And Bryant is one of the great leapers in the game today. I have NEVER seen Calvin Johnson jump the way Dez does. Give me a break.

 

[cowboys2233]

Calvin is definately the combination of Jerry Rice and Randy Moss. That alone is scary enough.

Just saying that doesn't make it true.

 

[cowboys2233]

Barring injury of Stafford orCalvin, I'll bet anyone here any amount they want that Calvin Johnson will not have only 5 TDs last year. Getting tackled almost right on the goal line 6-7 times was a total fluke. The dude had 27 TDs the two years before.

No, it means he couldn't close the deal, likely because he never has much separation from defenders like Dez does, likely because he doesn't have the lateral quickness or acceleration that Dez has. Like I've been saying all along. You want to know what's a total fluke? Half of his TD catches. Didn't he have a TD catch against us, where we had two or three defenders draped all over the guy? And he still came up with the catch? That's not because of anything remarkable he did, our defensive backs had their heads up their you know what.

 

[Nova]

A half foot, huh? I don't believe that for one second, not a single second. I don't even care if you break out combine numbers, there are other factors that come into play there. Was one guy given more leeway to take a step first? And it's one thing to jump when you're standing still, it's a whole other thing to leap when you're running full speed. And Bryant is one of the great leapers in the game today. I have NEVER seen Calvin Johnson jump the way Dez does. Give me a break.

Half a foot. 6 inches. Bryant's vertical is 38 inches. Tron's is 43 at the combine, 45 on sports science. But I can tell there's no convincing you if you don't want to go by combine numbers.

How quickly we forget though. http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Calvin+Johnson+Detroit+Lions+v+Dallas+Cowboys+SUbbpDMB02Ql.jpg

 

[koolaid]

Please. Calvin is the Dwight Howard of the receiving world. And Dwight Howard will never be as good as Michael Jordan. Jerry Rice and Randy Moss were much more Michael Jordan than Calvin Johnson will ever be. And Dez Bryant has a chance to be that too. Was Dwight Howard bigger and stronger than Michael Jordan? Sure. But Jordan had the quickness, the hops, the athleticism that Dwight Howard doesn't. And I think you can draw the same comparisons between Calvin Johnson and Dez Bryant. Word.

Odd reply. Comparing Dwight to Calvin is ridiculous. Their personalities are night and day. CJ is humble and committed and lives up to his potential, the other not so much.
Not sure how you could doubt Calvin's ability. He just broke Jerry Rice's record for receiving yards. You can rag on the Lions pass first offense all you want but I'd bet most people think that Steve Young>The current Matt Stafford (btw whats with him throwing side arm passes 10 times a game?). I'm sure most people with any idea of the lions talent pool last season would have targeted CJ just as many times.

There isn't a single DB in the league that can cover CJ right now. I agree that Calvin Johnson isn't like Michael Jordan. CJ has more natural athleticism and a worse supporting cast and probably won't blow as much money gambling.

This all said I love Dez. I bought his jersey before last season on the cheaps and I couldn't be happier. If Dez ends up being better than Calvin after their careers I will be as pleased as anyone here and ill eat plenty of crow.

 

[cowboys2233]

I agree that Calvin Johnson isn't like Michael Jordan. CJ has more natural athleticism.

Now I've heard everything. This must be an age thing.

 

[cowboys2233]

Half a foot. 6 inches. Bryant's vertical is 38 inches. Tron's is 43 at the combine, 45 on sports science. But I can tell there's no convincing you if you don't want to go by combine numbers.

How quickly we forget though. http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Calvin Johnson Detroit Lions v Dallas Cowboys SUbbpDMB02Ql.jpg

And I can tell there's no convincing you if you don't pay attention to anything I've said. 40 times can be manipulated if they're using people to hand time or if they're not using electronic starters blocks. Tell me, how do they do it at the Combine? Same with these verticals. They have people judging how you take off. What if one guy is given an extra step, you know, kicking your one foot back, bringing it forward and then jumping. Versus the guy who has to jump from a dead stand. Not saying that's what happened here but it IS possible because using people to judge other people without any sort of objective controls is questionable at best.

But most importantly, jumping from a stand is not even close to being the same as jumping from a run. When you jump standing, you can pump your arms, which helps propel you upwards. Can't exactly do that when you're running full speed and it's a HUGE difference, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. And for every one of those Calvin pictures (which are few and far between, look for yourselves)...

...I'll raise you one of these.

What's that uniform, you ask? Yeah, that's Dez just out of high school. First day of OSU practice as a freshman.

 

[Nova]

And I can tell there's no convincing you if you don't pay attention to anything I've said. 40 times can be manipulated if they're using people to hand time or if they're not using electronic starters blocks. Tell me, how do they do it at the Combine? Same with these verticals. They have people judging how you take off. What if one guy is given an extra step, you know, kicking your one foot back, bringing it forward and then jumping. Versus the guy who has to jump from a dead stand. Not saying that's what happened here but it IS possible because using people to judge other people without any sort of objective controls is questionable at best.

But most importantly, jumping from a stand is not even close to being the same as jumping from a run. When you jump standing, you can pump your arms, which helps propel you upwards. Can't exactly do that when you're running full speed and it's a HUGE difference, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. And for every one of those Calvin pictures (which are few and far between, look for yourselves)...

...I'll raise you one of these.

.

I understand your position. And by no means am I trying to be hostile with you (I re-read my last post and it came off the wrong way).

I'm just saying if we're throwing combine info out the window, then I've got nothing to convince you with. I understand that there are some variables in the testing, although I think the discrepancy between the combine and Dez' pro day can't be simply dismissed as aberrations or variables in testing.

But if we're going by the eye test... it's just a debate I don't want to get into. It's just too hard to prove and we'll just go in circles examining the most tedious and subjective things.

 

[cowboys2233]

I understand your position. And by no means am I trying to be hostile with you (I re-read my last post and it came off the wrong way).

I'm just saying if we're throwing combine info out the window, then I've got nothing to convince you with. I understand that there are some variables in the testing, although I think the discrepancy between the combine and Dez' pro day can't be simply dismissed as aberrations or variables in testing.

But if we're going by the eye test... it's just a debate I don't want to get into. It's just too hard to prove and we'll just go in circles examining the most tedious and subjective things.

Fair enough. Here is an interesting blog I found, comparing Dez and Megatron...

http://www.***BANNED-URL***/sports/...bryant-will-be-better-than-calvin-johnson.ece

Does a comparison of the first three years indicate anything about how they'll compare in future years? Maybe so, maybe not. But we are about to see a Dez we haven't seen before and it brings great joy to me that we hit on this guy, he is going to be utterly dominant for the next five years.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Please. Calvin is the Dwight Howard of the receiving world. And Dwight Howard will never be as good as Michael Jordan. Jerry Rice and Randy Moss were much more Michael Jordan than Calvin Johnson will ever be. And Dez Bryant has a chance to be that too. Was Dwight Howard bigger and stronger than Michael Jordan? Sure. But Jordan had the quickness, the hops, the athleticism that Dwight Howard doesn't. And I think you can draw the same comparisons between Calvin Johnson and Dez Bryant. Word.

Are you really trying to form an analogy based on Calvin Johnson = Dwight Howard, Michael Jordan = Dez Bryant, there for Dez Bryant > Calvin Johnson!?

 

[DFWJC]

No, it means he couldn't close the deal, likely because he never has much separation from defenders like Dez does, likely because he doesn't have the lateral quickness or acceleration that Dez has. Like I've been saying all along. You want to know what's a total fluke? Half of his TD catches. Didn't he have a TD catch against us, where we had two or three defenders draped all over the guy? And he still came up with the catch? That's not because of anything remarkable he did, our defensive backs had their heads up their you know what.

How do you explain the 27 TDs in the previous 2 seasons?
Do you think he can no longer close the deal?
Really?

If you're so sure last year was not a fluke as far as TDs. I'll bet you 1K right now that he gets more than that 5 TDs (barring injuring, of course).
Put up or shut up.

 

[cowboys2233]

How do you explain the 27 TDs in the previous 2 seasons?
Do you think he can no longer close the deal?
Really?

If you're so sure last year was not a fluke as far as TDs. I'll bet you 1K right now that he gets more than that 5 TDs (barring injuring, of course).
Put up or shut up.

I'll bet you 1K right now that Dez Bryant has more TDs this year than CJ. You know, the greatest receiver the world has ever known? Should be an easy bet to take.