What will it take for Dez to overtake Megatron?

Idgit

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CJ's a freak, the like of which we haven't seen since Randy Moss. That said, the best WR of all time didn't have the physical talent of either of those players, so it's possible for a player in the league right now to overcome CJ's physical advantages. Nobody's all that close, yet, in my book, though.
 

dstovall5

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I'm merely trying to understand why you felt the need to bring in other receivers, given context of the OP's question.
I've already stated this in my previous post in which I replied to you and I wasn't talking about the OP. Also, I'm not the only one who has brought up other receivers in this thread ya know.

It's almost like, to avoid the homer label, one is compelled to underrate the team's talent. And, yes, there are plenty of posters who are just as likely to overrate the Cowboys talent, but the OP didn't do that. Here's the deal: Dez is very good. Even Chris Carter acknowledged Dez might have more potential than any receiver in the league. We don't need to acknowledge the greatness of other receivers to have an honest discussion about Dez.
Ohh please. If you think I'm underrating Dez by putting him in the same group as those others 2, well then I don't know what to tell you. Sorry that I don't think Dez is better then Calvin like others here believe, because truthfully I'm not so sure he's above those other 2, yet alone Calvin. Also, are you talking about the same Chris Carter who didn't even rank Calvin Johnson as an elite WR last year?

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As far as me being "mad" about being wrong in my other post, you're going to have to be more specific. What other post? I'm wrong in a lot of posts.

This started because I said - v
For Dez to "overtake" Calvin, he'd first have to separate himself from the other 2 studs that are up and coming. Dez still hasn't surpassed A.J Green or Julio Jones in my opinion, to me they're all in the same group. I think it's foolish for people to put him ahead of those guys when they've done just as much as Dez, though, I understand Dez is a cowboy and this a cowboy board so most will disagree.

Then you replied - v
Who has done that? The OP was just asking what Dez would need to do to close the gap between him and Megatron.

You asked "who has done that?". So I replied to you showing who I was referring to, and it wasn't the OP.
I wasn't referring to the OP, heck I didn't even quote him ... It's widely known that Calvin Johnson is the best WR in the league, but on these forum you have some people saying, "Dez has Calvin in most other categories and is the more dangerous receiver overall." So if they think Dez is better then Calvin, then it's very obvious they think Dez is above those other guys ... Well it's obvious to me at least.

Then you replied - v
Actually, you did quote him. You used the word overtake. You even put it in quotations.

So what is your point here? Seems like you're mad about something, or you wouldn't of nitpicked about me quoting the freaking TITLE. How many times do I have to tell you I wasn't referring to the OP ... Gee.
 

dallasfan4lizife

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this argument would likely be better received if u didn't use the best basketball player currently to say athleticism is over rated

He's the best basketball player currently, dont get me wrong. But he's overrated. Mentioning his name with some of the GOAT is laughable.

NBA is completely watered down compared to the 80's and 90's
 

cowboys2233

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Why do u keep saying Calvin is maxed out? He'll be 28 in late September, to assume he won't get any better, barring injury, really makes no sense. To assume he won't even play at the same level for several more season, barring injury, is idiotic.

Because I think his game is overrated and think much of his yardage was smoke and mirrors. It's not that I don't think he'll play at the same level, its that I think some of you look at his 1,900+ receiving yards in a vacuum and proclaim him the Lebron James of receiving based solely on that. Please. Roy Williams put up incredible statistics while in Detroit and as most sane people are aware, he just wasn't that good.
 

ScipioCowboy

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I've already stated this in my previous post in which I replied to you and I wasn't talking about the OP. Also, I'm not the only one who has brought up other receivers in this thread ya know.


Ohh please. If you think I'm underrating Dez by putting him in the same group as those others 2, well then I don't know what to tell you. Sorry that I don't think Dez is better then Calvin like others here believe, because truthfully I'm not so sure he's above those other 2, yet alone Calvin. Also, are you talking about the same Chris Carter who didn't even rank Calvin Johnson as an elite WR last year?

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This started because I said - v

Then you replied - v


You asked "who has done that?". So I replied to you showing who I was referring to, and it wasn't the OP.


Then you replied - v


So what is your point here? Seems like you're mad about something, or you wouldn't of nitpicked about me quoting the freaking TITLE. How many times do I have to tell you I wasn't referring to the OP ... Gee.

If you were quoting "the freaking TITLE", you were most definitely referring to the OP since the title includes the very thing he wanted to know. Point being, an answer to his question doesn't require discussion of other receivers who may or may not be in Dez's class. Obviously, if we're laying out a strategy through which Dez could surpass Megatron (assuming such a strategy exists), it's implied Dez would also be surpassing receivers ranked below Megatron. It's not rocket surgery.

But, hey, if you want to claim your response had nothing to do with the OP even though you repeated the very question he asked, be my guest.
 

dstovall5

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If you think Dez doesn't have better hands then you rely too much on statistics.
Lol? I could tell you without looking at statistics that Dez doesn't have better hands then CJ, at best Dez's hands = CJ's hands. Though, it's funny how the statistics back up that Dez doesn't actually have better hands.

Also, if you don't see how aggressive and passionate Dez is, then I don't know what to tell you. Guess you'll have to be irked that I noticed.
That's not what irked me. I understand how passionate Dez is and I love that about him, it's one of his best traits. What irked me is that you said,"Dez is a more aggressive player and (IMO) has more passion for the game." That statement in bold is just a load of crap. Please explain to me how Dez has more passion for the game then Calvin. Is it because Calvin hasn't been a Diva like Dez was in his earlier stages of his career?
I don't know why you can't understand that Calvin is targeted a whole lot, but it doesn't really matter to me why you can't, so I suppose it will remain unsolved.
Again, another load of crap statement. When have I said Calvin isn't targeted a lot. Do you understand Calvin is the only threat on that team? If you did you'd know that that's a double edged sword. He may receive more targets, but he also receives a lot more triple and double teams then Dez does.
And we all have our biases, don't we? I have no trouble admitting mine... nor which team has my allegiance.
No problem with your bias, because we all have some bias. I just don't like the fact that it seems like you're cutting down another player to try and prop up another. You stating that Dez Bryant "has more passion for the game and loves every aspect of football. From practice, the locker room, the interviews, to the game itself." Puts it across that Calvin doesn't have that same passion, heck they all have that passion. That's why they're in the NFL playing with the best of the best.
 

dstovall5

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If you were quoting "the freaking TITLE", you were most definitely referring to the OP since the title includes the very thing he wanted to know. Point being, an answer to his question doesn't require discussion of other receivers who may or may not be in Dez's class. Obviously, if we're laying out a strategy through which Dez could surpass Megatron (assuming such a strategy exists), it's implied Dez would also be surpassing receivers ranked below Megatron. It's not rocket surgery.

But, hey, if you want to claim your response had nothing to do with the OP even though you repeated the very question he asked, be my guest.

Gee you're very dense. I've already told you I was replying to guy who said, "Dez has Calvin in most other categories and is the more dangerous receiver overall." I made that "I think it's foolish for people to put him ahead of those guys when they've done just as much as Dez, though, I understand Dez is a cowboy and this a cowboy board so most will disagree." comment at the guy who said "Dez has Calvin in most other categories and is the more dangerous receiver overall."


The "For Dez to "overtake" Calvin, he'd first have to separate himself from the other 2 studs that are up and coming. Dez still hasn't surpassed A.J Green or Julio Jones in my opinion, to me they're all in the same group." comment was directed at the OP, but that's not the comment you bolded in your quote at me. You were talking about the other one which WASN'T directed at the OP.


But, hey, if you want to claim that my response in which you bolded was aimed at the OP, be my guest. :cool:
 

Vintage

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Because I think his game is overrated and think much of his yardage was smoke and mirrors. It's not that I don't think he'll play at the same level, its that I think some of you look at his 1,900+ receiving yards in a vacuum and proclaim him the Lebron James of receiving based solely on that. Please. Roy Williams put up incredible statistics while in Detroit and as most sane people are aware, he just wasn't that good.

What incredible stats did he put up in Detroit? I'm all ears.
 

percyhoward

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Johnson 295 of 481 for 4769 9.9 ypt 33 td 15 int 104.3
Bryant....200 of 308 for 2871 9.3 ypt 27 td 7 int 114.8
 

Modus

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Johnson 295 of 481 for 3769 7.8 ypt 33 td 15 int 95.7
Bryant....200 of 308 for 2871 9.3 ypt 27 td 7 int 114.8

I find that absolutely useless to base a comparison. Bryant was hurt for 16 or so games in that stretch and Megatron saw around 80% of the attempts Stafford made.

Johnson has inflated statistics while Bryant's don't do him justice.
 

dstovall5

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Johnson 295 of 481 for 4769 9.9 ypt 33 td 15 int 104.3
Bryant....200 of 308 for 2871 9.3 ypt 27 td 7 int 114.8

Who has the better, more accurate QB?
Who has more weapons around them to take off coverage?
I'm sure those play a role in those stats you just mentioned, correct?
 

ScipioCowboy

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Gee you're very dense. I've already told you I was replying to guy who said, "Dez has Calvin in most other categories and is the more dangerous receiver overall." I made that "I think it's foolish for people to put him ahead of those guys when they've done just as much as Dez, though, I understand Dez is a cowboy and this a cowboy board so most will disagree." comment at the guy who said "Dez has Calvin in most other categories and is the more dangerous receiver overall."


The "For Dez to "overtake" Calvin, he'd first have to separate himself from the other 2 studs that are up and coming. Dez still hasn't surpassed A.J Green or Julio Jones in my opinion, to me they're all in the same group." comment was directed at the OP, but that's not the comment you bolded in your quote at me. You were talking about the other one which WASN'T directed at the OP.


But, hey, if you want to claim that my response in which you bolded was aimed at the OP, be my guest. :cool:

So you concede you were responding to a comparison between Dez and Calvin when you brought up the other two receivers?

Furthermore, in the comment I bolded, you referred to "those guys". "Those guys" could only refer back to the receivers mentioned in the previous sentence (unless the fundamentals of English grammar have changed in the past five minutes) and you admit the previous sentence was directed at the OP.

I suppose I could try to re-translate your post according to the arbitrary language rules you created, or I could just let the issue drop. I think I'll let it drop since it's clear you're never going to address my original point.
 

percyhoward

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Who has the better, more accurate QB?
Who has more weapons around them to take off coverage?
I'm sure those play in a role in those stats you just mentioned, correct?
Sure, there were twelve WR who had at least 120 targets whose ratings were higher than the rating on Johnson's targets. That's not saying he was the 13th-best WR in the NFL last year.

It's saying that there were 12 other WR whose targets helped their teams more, including Dez.
 

dstovall5

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Sure, there were twelve WR who had at least 120 targets whose ratings were higher than the rating on Johnson's targets. That's not saying he was the 13th-best WR in the NFL last year.

It's saying that there were 12 other WR whose targets helped their teams more, including Dez.

Nice stats and all, but there's a flaw. What you posted doesn't give the whole picture. It'd be nice if it showed how many times each WR was triple/double teamed during a target, because that would give a better idea. For example, Calvin Johnson. I bet he had the most triple/double coverage last year, and that plays a huge role. Logically thinking a QB who constantly throws into double/triple coverage is going to have less completions, and more interceptions thus resulting in a lower QB rating while passing towards that particular WR. Yet, Stafford still managed a 104.3 rating while throwing to Johnson, pretty impressive. :D
 

percyhoward

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What you posted doesn't give the whole picture.
"There were twelve WR who had at least 120 targets whose ratings were higher than the rating on Johnson's targets. That's not saying he was the 13th-best WR in the NFL last year."
 

CowboyStar88

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LOL... statistics aren't always indicative of how good you are. Emmitt Smith leads all NFL RB's in rushing yards but I'll be damned if he's the best one ever. And I am a hardcore Cowboys fan...

Emmitt Smith was the most complete back to ever play. When it came to running the ball, power play, balance, vision,blitz pickup, receiving, heart, desire. There is a reason why Emmitt owns the record. Not many players would be able to carry their team with a separated shoulder at his size, so You can turn your fan card in at the table over there.
 

Lonestar94

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Dez Bryant can be better, but not statistically.. Matt Stafford's one love will always be Calvin Johnson.. Their record will suffer because of it..
 

dstovall5

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"There were twelve WR who had at least 120 targets whose ratings were higher than the rating on Johnson's targets. That's not saying he was the 13th-best WR in the NFL last year."

Wow, that just winged over your head completely. Like I said, there's a major flaw to what you posted. Whether you acknowledge or not is besides the point.
 

JoeyBoy718

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Emmitt Smith was the most complete back to ever play. When it came to running the ball, power play, balance, vision,blitz pickup, receiving, heart, desire. There is a reason why Emmitt owns the record. Not many players would be able to carry their team with a separated shoulder at his size, so You can turn your fan card in at the table over there.

He's the all-time leading rusher because he played forever.

Player-------------------------------Career rushing attempts
Emmitt Smith----------------------4,409
Barry Sanders--------------------3,062
Jim Brown-------------------------2,359
Walter Payton--------------------3,838
Eric Dickerson--------------------2,996
OJ Simpson-----------------------2,404
LaDanian Tomlinson-----------3,174

These are the first names I looked up. They all happen to have a higher yards per carry.
 
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