Which concerns you more: RB situation or DT situation?

[_sturt_]

The NFL is just entertainment. Any fan that "worries" about the team is wasting emotional energy. It is certainly interesting to talk about, but after almost 30 years of disappointment, the Cowboys don't merit the emotional energy needed to "worry" about any position. Just enjoy the games, root for the team, and let it go during the offseason - like we used to do back before social media, and the internet gave us the resources to do exhaustive research on prospects, and spend time readying every other fan's "expert" opinion.

I don't know anyone for being interested or being a fan of the team. But it is much more enjoyable to simply assume (I know, I know) that the Cowboys are doing the best they can, and hope for improvement. That way, you can stay positive about the team, and not allow it to drag you down when they fall short - either in off-season maneuvering, or during the games in the Fall and Winter.

I hear you, and fully endorse the fundamental premise that sports is only a consumer entertainment option among many, many options. But some consumers, if not many, so embrace this form of entertainment that they have made it a quasi-religion for themselves more so than a consumer choice. To my mind, there is a thin line from being an enthusiast fan and being a religious fan, but it is an important line that has consequences to one's mental health, for real.

The enthusiast fan can still get wrapped up in the drama, not unlike getting wrapped up in the drama of a good movie. But s/he holds back enough of his/her intensity of attention such that, if the entertainment evolves into something that appears to hold little potential to result in positive feelings overall, s/he can withdraw and find some other way to invest his/her time in some other recreational pursuit.

I'll give you an example. Baseball stopped being entertaining to me b/c of fundamental changes to the game that make it too starved of strategy, among other things. I'll give you another example. My NBA team's owner (not the Mavs... you guys realize, I hope, that a whole lotta Cowboys fans have no connection to DFW otherwise... ) has in the last 15 months, through words and actions, made it clear to me that he regards his NBA team as a financial investment, and his interest in the team's success on the floor is something less than his interest in the team's profit margin. That, to me, makes it almost impossible to think that team will ever climb to the top of the mountain... he will always have a limit on what he's willing to allow in the pursuit of a trophy. If he ever sells the team, I'll go back, but for as long as he is owner, there is no decent chance of any hope of ultimate success... so I've withdrawn. I choose not to care for now, and for as long as there is no change to the team's status.

Dallas Cowboys? Yes, I've disengaged for games or even seasons on occasion over the last 50-ish years. But for as long as hope springs, I'm here, and I'm interested, and I'm invested. It will not be my quasi-religion, but by my choice, I will enjoy the rollercoaster ride. Next year, if I perceive the Jones NFL franchise located in DFW is taking the season off, so will I. But right here right now, I'm sufficiently persuaded that they still really have expectations in 2024, and that's all I need to feel like this might be fun, and who knows, they might even do what no one thinks will get done.

 

[FVSTONE]

A lot of talk about our RB situation, but almost as often, it has been mentioned that our DT situation was not addressed adequately in the draft either.

So, just curious, if we assume Zeke gets signed, which one gives you stronger concern?

(a) a RB room featuring Zeke and Dowdle as the two leads, Luepke or Freeman getting the FB/ST role, and Vaughn as the change of pace guy

or

(b) a DT rotation that includes Diggyzoo and Chauncey at 3-tech, with Fehoko theoretically also getting into that mix... and Mazi and a 7th rounder Rogers at 1-Tech...



Oh, and just gonna throw this out there... don't be too surprised if, besides Zeke, we also add another vet FA in a minimum contract named James Lynch.

No kidding, Lynch played DE, and 3-tech, and even a little 1-tech for Minny apparently... but mostly 3-tech... after being drafted by Zimmer and his old team out of Baylor in 2020.

Here's why. Of course, we've lost along the D-line Armstrong, Fowler and Gallimore. Sam Williams gets Armstrong snaps conventionally speaking. Tyrus Wheat gets Fowler's snaps. And Fehoko moves into Gallimore's role.

Then, Kneeland comes into camp penciled-in to Williams old third-string slot, with a decent chance to pull ahead of Wheat before game #1. But other than Durrell Johnson on a futures contract, there's really no one to occupy Wheat's old third-string slot. Enter James Lynch... who, quite possibly, would also pull ahead of Wheat, or perhaps would claim the other 3-tech slot and force Fehoko to compete on the edge with Wheat.

Lynch is coming off a lost season due to an ACL tear in preseason. But every indication is that he should be ready for 2024. Knows Zimmer's defense, and one would assume the two have some affection for each other.

Neither of these positions worry more than the fact that the Cowboys are thinking Trey Lance should be the next man up. This kid is no better than Ryan Leaf and we all know how that ended up. If Prescot goes down with an injury or goes MIA like last season then Cooper Rush should be the guy. He's already proven that he knows who he is and can manage games and with this new and improved O-Line to protect him and open up the run game he fits in perfectly for what the Cowboys need if Prescot is out of the picture. TL would have a rough time earning a job in the USFL, let alone being the next man up on the Cowboys.

 

[reddyuta]

we need to sign Calais Campbell, that will improve our DT situation a lot.

 

[_sturt_]

we need to sign Calais Campbell, that will improve our DT situation a lot.

Ya know, I can't help but agree with that. The price seemingly should be right, no? Seems like a really good match under the circumstances, though he'll be 38 this season.

Less of a name, but someone who spent some early career time playing for McCarthy and would qualify as a good senior mentor to some of our younger players is the 6-4 315 lb Lawrence Guy, who played about 1/2 of all of NE's defensive snaps last season. Don't think I'm the first to bring up his name.

 

[Nova]

DT

Teams have proven that you can compete in the playoffs without Pro-Bowl RBs. I've yet to see a team with a weak DT group survive the tournament.

With that said, my expectations are low and I'm rooting for a rebuild

 

[TequilaCowboy]

Why do people think Zeke still got it? This past season he averaged 3.5 per carry with his longest run of 17 amazing yards. He scored only 3 TDs..... HIs last season with the Cowboys he averaged 3.8 per carry . Yeah, that's a RB1 for you. Even his 3m dollar salary is an overpay for a FB. Deuce is making less than $1m per in comparison, Talk about a FO feel good signing, Zeke was it.

I am glad they have addressed OL issues this off season and that will help more than signing Zeke. Their next order of business next off season will be to draft a legit RB1 to run behind this young OL..... But DT and stopping the run is still the biggest weakness on this team. Let's see if Zimmer can work some magic.

 

[kskboys]

DT

Teams have proven that you can compete in the playoffs without Pro-Bowl RBs. I've yet to see a team with a weak DT group survive the tournament.

With that said, my expectations are low and I'm rooting for a rebuild

Yup.

DT's more often than not are a huge reason why team's make the super bowl.

 

[kskboys]

Why do people think Zeke still got it? This past season he averaged 3.5 per carry with his longest run of 17 amazing yards. He scored only 3 TDs..... HIs last season with the Cowboys he averaged 3.8 per carry . Yeah, that's a RB1 for you. Even his 3m dollar salary is an overpay for a FB. Deuce is making less than $1m per in comparison, Talk about a FO feel good signing, Zeke was it.

I am glad they have addressed OL issues this off season and that will help more than signing Zeke. Their next order of business next off season will be to draft a legit RB1 to run behind this young OL..... But DT and stopping the run is still the biggest weakness on this team. Let's see if Zimmer can work some magic.

Who is saying Zeke still has it?

 

[Loso86]

A lot of talk about our RB situation, but almost as often, it has been mentioned that our DT situation was not addressed adequately in the draft either.

So, just curious, if we assume Zeke gets signed, which one gives you stronger concern?

(a) a RB room featuring Zeke and Dowdle as the two leads, Luepke or Freeman getting the FB/ST role, and Vaughn as the change of pace guy

or

(b) a DT rotation that includes Diggyzoo and Chauncey at 3-tech, with Fehoko theoretically also getting into that mix... and Mazi and a 7th rounder Rogers at 1-Tech...



Oh, and just gonna throw this out there... don't be too surprised if, besides Zeke, we also add another vet FA in a minimum contract named James Lynch.

No kidding, Lynch played DE, and 3-tech, and even a little 1-tech for Minny apparently... but mostly 3-tech... after being drafted by Zimmer and his old team out of Baylor in 2020.

Here's why. Of course, we've lost along the D-line Armstrong, Fowler and Gallimore. Sam Williams gets Armstrong snaps conventionally speaking. Tyrus Wheat gets Fowler's snaps. And Fehoko moves into Gallimore's role.

Then, Kneeland comes into camp penciled-in to Williams old third-string slot, with a decent chance to pull ahead of Wheat before game #1. But other than Durrell Johnson on a futures contract, there's really no one to occupy Wheat's old third-string slot. Enter James Lynch... who, quite possibly, would also pull ahead of Wheat, or perhaps would claim the other 3-tech slot and force Fehoko to compete on the edge with Wheat.

Lynch is coming off a lost season due to an ACL tear in preseason. But every indication is that he should be ready for 2024. Knows Zimmer's defense, and one would assume the two have some affection for each other.

Why does the RB concern our fans so much now when most said it doesn't matter who's back there anybody can run the ball?

 

[_sturt_]

DT

Teams have proven that you can compete in the playoffs without Pro-Bowl RBs. I've yet to see a team with a weak DT group survive the tournament.

Yeah. Agreed.

I don't think there's any way of getting around it that the key to the DT group is our 2023 1st round pick's taking a jump in his sophomore year, and the key to that happening is, plausibly, a defensive coordinator who works well for Mazi's progress like the previous DC worked well for Micah's progress. Significant improvement there pivots on that one factor more than any other. The good news, Mazi has that potential--we weren't the only team that had a 2nd round grade on him, somewhat rare for 1-techs in comparison to other positions. The bad news, of course, potential means you haven't done it, at least not on this level.

As I've had an additional half day to think about it, I think signing Guy makes a helluvalotta sense, assuming he can be had for the minimal money I conjecture he can. It gives you a credible mentor to Mazi who still played 1st and 2nd downs regularly in Boston thru last season. That combination of Mazi taking a jump and Guy backfilling behind Mazi effectively could plausibly mitigate the loss of Haskins. Then, between Odighisuwa and Golston, you're mostly set at the 3-tech... mitigating the loss of Gallimore shouldn't take much. If recovered from his ACL tear, I'm thinking ex-Viking James Lynch is fine there, but if not him, someone like that.

On the edge, of course, you lost DA and Fowler. The anticipation has been that the 2024 version of Sam Williams steps up and gets more snaps, plausibly replacing DA... and so you're really mainly replacing Fowler and the 2023 version of Sam Williams. Kneeland fills one of those. And presumably, Fehoko fills the other.

So, two more relatively small-time free agent moves, and you're done on the D-line... for better or worse. So much, again, riding on Mazi to produce and on Zimmer to get it out of him.

Putting a bow on this short essay... I'm bullish that this can be an adequate D-line mainly because 3/4 of the starters are relatively highly regarded even outside of The Star. You're going to be very young, but that also has an upside apart from the obvious downside... you might stay more healthy than normal... you might have more overall energy and enthusiasm up and down the depth chart on game day.

And circling back to the OP question... I don't see the encouraging same star power in the RB room. But nonetheless, I believe Dowdle can be adequate (if he continues to avoid prolonged injury--not very typical of his career, unfortunately), I believe Zeke can be adequate within a certain role, and I believe Deuce could be a special weapon still, once given the chance to consistently run behind a starting O-line--not the hodgepodge assembly he mostly got last year in preseason and in mop-up minutes of blowouts.

And/but just as Mazi is the pivot point for the D-line, we have encouraging star power along that starting O-line, with not just one but two spots where we have to see very young players step up--and we don't even know with certainty which two, we only know who the candidates are. Answering my own question, then, it's less about the RBs, more about the O-line congealing so that the RBs have a chance to be adequate to good... and so I come down on the side that the DT situation is more dire b/c there is only one real option at one key spot... it's on you Mazi.

 

[Chasing6]

Why do people think Zeke still got it? This past season he averaged 3.5 per carry with his longest run of 17 amazing yards. He scored only 3 TDs..... HIs last season with the Cowboys he averaged 3.8 per carry . Yeah, that's a RB1 for you. Even his 3m dollar salary is an overpay for a FB. Deuce is making less than $1m per in comparison, Talk about a FO feel good signing, Zeke was it.

I am glad they have addressed OL issues this off season and that will help more than signing Zeke. Their next order of business next off season will be to draft a legit RB1 to run behind this young OL..... But DT and stopping the run is still the biggest weakness on this team. Let's see if Zimmer can work some magic.

There were 38 RB's with 100+ Carrie's that had a higher run before contact than Zeke. The Jets were fooling no one with their QB situation last year.

 

[Bobhaze]

Both. This team must have both a legit running game and the ability to stop the run or they will be stuck in the same old pattern we’ve seen for too long.

 

[_sturt_]

This team must have both a legit running game and the ability to stop the run

I hear that. The conclusion I've reached, though, is that it's ("legit running game") so much more about the O-line than it is the RBs themselves, that, my original question was/is misplaced.

We have good enough RBs in the room, or at least me, I'm satisfied we do.

But. Until we know that we've been able to fill not one but two key spots on the O-line, there is heightened reason for concern.

But but. At least we have multiple ways that that could play out... a number of reasonable candidates... and be okay.

On the D-line? As we all know, we have 3 highly-regarded starters, one even considered elite.

But the fact that we only really have one 1-tech on the roster who it is reasonable to imagine might somehow have developed between seasons to perform adequately...

That's why I've come down on that side... there's greater concern there.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

DT, if you can’t stop the run then it will be another early playoff exit.

We have seen this theme play out since the rams PO game several years ago and they still haven’t shored up this massive problem.

 

[_sturt_]

I think signing Guy makes a helluvalotta sense, assuming he can be had for the minimal money I conjecture he can. It gives you a credible mentor to Mazi who still played 1st and 2nd downs regularly in Boston thru last season. That combination of Mazi taking a jump and Guy backfilling behind Mazi effectively could plausibly mitigate the loss of Haskins.

Yeah. This is the practice field and locker room presence/mindset I want locking arms with Mazi. He fits.

 

[kskboys]

We have seen this theme play out since the rams PO game several years ago and they still haven’t shored up this massive problem.

Because they have no idea how.

 

[Buzzbait]

DT, if you can’t stop the run then it will be another early playoff exit.

If we even make it to the playoffs.

 

[Bobhaze]

I hear that. The conclusion I've reached, though, is that it's ("legit running game") so much more about the O-line than it is the RBs themselves, that, my original question was/is misplaced.

We have good enough RBs in the room, or at least me, I'm satisfied we do.

But. Until we know that we've been able to fill not one but two key spots on the O-line, there is heightened reason for concern.

But but. At least we have multiple ways that that could play out... a number of reasonable candidates... and be okay.

On the D-line? As we all know, we have 3 highly-regarded starters, one even considered elite.

But the fact that we only really have one 1-tech on the roster who it is reasonable to imagine might somehow have developed between seasons to perform adequately...

That's why I've come down on that side... there's greater concern there.

I agree with you aboutDT. But I disagree that we have “good enough” RBs.

The term “good enough” says it all. It’s not that we must have a HOF RB. But just thinking if you have a really good line, anyone can be effective behind it I believe is short sided. Having a RB capable of taking a minor hole and turning into at least a 20 yard gain keeps a defense honest.

Having a committee of RBs who have no such talent to be that kind of threat make it easy for an NFL defense to be aggressive. A weak running game means Defenses could force Dak to have to throw it more than we should. That’s exactly what defenses want. And basically a formula for the last several playoff frustrations.

IMO, we need a better RB.

 

[Cowboysheelsreds053]

Because they have no idea how.

Lol, why they are called the Clampetts

 

[_sturt_]

I agree with you aboutDT. But I disagree that we have “good enough” RBs.

The term “good enough” says it all. It’s not that we must have a HOF RB. But just thinking if you have a really good line, anyone can be effective behind it I believe is short sided. Having a RB capable of taking a minor hole and turning into at least a 20 yard gain keeps a defense honest.

Having a committee of RBs who have no such talent to be that kind of threat make it easy for an NFL defense to be aggressive. A weak running game means Defenses could force Dak to have to throw it more than we should. That’s exactly what defenses want. And basically a formula for the last several playoff frustrations.

IMO, we need a better RB.

I think Dowdle is somewhere beyond adequate, and somewhere well short of great. He's just played second fiddle and/or been injured all this time.

I think... and this might be a less popular conclusion than the one above... that there is a secret sauce in being Deuce's size that, if the RB is good enough and if his O-line is good enough, will equate to head-turning results. When it takes less space for a RB to fit through a hole, and when there's less of an RB for a defensive player to get his hands on, and when the RB is, by most accounts, blessed with excellent vision, excellent acceleration, and excellent toughness... you've got yourself a player that will shine.

I think Zeke has enough tread left on the tires to be a factor, given limited use and given targeted use.

Turning to the FB side, I'm a little less certain unfortunately, because I felt Luepke would assert himself in a bigger way before the season's end. I fear that that fumble shook not only McC's confidence in him, but his own confidence in himself. My sense is that the reason Freeman was signed was less about competing for a RB slot, so much more about giving Luepke some legit competition in camp for the FB role. I know, I know, Freeman's been an RB in his own right, but so was Luepke until he turned pro. They're almost carbon copies of each other in terms of size. And Freeman last season became a special teams asset unlike he'd ever been before. Thing is, neither one has any great reputation for pass protection in spite of their size. Luepke's advantage likely is that he did seem to learn to block with some efficiency before the season was over, whereas I don't know that Freeman has ever been really asked to do much of that.

So that's my assessment, not that it's anticipated it will be persuasive, just that it's my attempt at reasoned explanation for my conclusion.

But before I click submit, I have to add... I love the non-RB options we have for running the ball, too. Yes, I mean CeeDee, but not just CeeDee. In fact, I'd prefer we ask him to run the ball only once every couple of games just to keep a defense on their toes. Yes, I mean Turpin, too. But/and I'll be thrilled to see if McC decides to utilize his 3rd QB in that way... not just for the novelty of it, but legitimately because the one elite talent that almost universally TL has been recognized as having is his ability to run the ball. He's really good at it. Not just because he's genuinely fast even compared to other NFL RBs (... understood that he recorded the 12th best speed for the season of anyone, any position, on a run a couple of seasons ago). Not just because he's got some size that makes him tougher to bring down. I've mentioned this before, that his HS coach once said that he thought RB would eventually be TL's position... imo, we're wasting a real threat to not incorporate him a play or two or three every game.

"Well but you wouldn't want to have 3 QBs eligible for game day, would you?"

No, I wouldn't.

So, I think key to that notion is how confident McC would be about TL as a QB to merely finish a game if called upon. Think we all readily acknowledge we have to see what TL is capable of this summer.

Ideally? My take is that you make Cooper Rush your emergency QB, and presume that if QB1 goes down, you'll let TL finish that game... but if QB1 is still down the following week and unable to go, Cooper takes over QB1 until Dak would make it back.