Who’s to say that Tolbert or Fehoko, Brown, Vasher or Turbin isn’t the answer?

[SteveTheCowboy]

There’s so much negativity posted here about the WR position and the OL position. It’s like CZ posters actually know what’s going on in practice, in the locker room , in the classroom. This place is flooded with posters who think they know more than the Cowboys scouts, coaches.

Who’s to say that Tolbert or Fehoko, Brown, Vasher or Turbin isn’t the answer?

Who’s to say Biadiaz, Farniok, McGovern, Tyler Smith, Josh Ball, Alarcon aren’t the answer?

The truth is that no one can say 100% on any of this. Every year is a different team. So the haters like P and M and C out there who consistently crap on the QB, and thus the Cowboys, do not know squat. They HOPE that the Cowboys fail so they can blame the QB. But it’s only hope on their part. And that my friends, is sad.

There is of course nothing to say they aren't. It's kinda sad that we have fans that think they are experts because they criticize and find fault with our players...super dooper in the know experts!

The thing is....do we have a good system to help these guys excel and succeed? I am not convinced of it. We can't get Noah Brown involved? His NCAA chart shows excellent red zone / TD performance. Big guy with good hands in the 10-20 yard range. He probably goes in mostly uncovered with our top 2 and TE matched up and misdirection out of the backfield.

If only we had adeptness in OC play design and calling.

How about the play design and calling for Tony Pollard? OC puts him in when Zeke raises his hand? Crazy silliness.

The kids you listed are talented. System error and "learn on the job" is the weak link.

 

[Chuck 54]

No way I’m freaking out over James Washington who wasn’t showing as much in practices as the young guys. If Ceedee gets hurt or Gallup goes down again, then sure, I’ll hope we can sign a vet free agent, but not yet, not this early, and not a guy who’s been trouble everywhere or a guy who is rehabbing right now.

 

[Motorola]

That’s a great position to have . One that probably represents many fans .

But if you were a fan who wants to discuss and critic these decisions and strategy by our franchise similar to a sports or beat writer wouldn’t an open fan forum as such be a good place to go and provide your thoughts and opinions?

Cowboys Zone - and other fan blogger sites should be that.
However - there are members here and everywhere else - that have a mantra/ create a cause / or to the point...plainly want to muck up any meaningful or insightful discussions and analyses.

Also - a fan blog provides moments for levity and humor, along with references to things and people away from the thread subject. (which I like). Occasionally getting off-topic through banter, wit, and 'gifs' & photo images and video clips provide unexpected fun and laughs - which is good.

But the inane back and forth personal insults that inevitably pop up from polar opposite opinions and sides just drag threads down.

In summary, one has to discern the good and bad, then participate in the former and skip the latter.

 

[Risen Star]

There’s so much negativity posted here about the WR position and the OL position. It’s like CZ posters actually know what’s going on in practice, in the locker room , in the classroom. This place is flooded with posters who think they know more than the Cowboys scouts, coaches.

Who’s to say that Tolbert or Fehoko, Brown, Vasher or Turbin isn’t the answer?

Who’s to say Biadiaz, Farniok, McGovern, Tyler Smith, Josh Ball, Alarcon aren’t the answer?

The truth is that no one can say 100% on any of this. Every year is a different team. So the haters like P and M and C out there who consistently crap on the QB, and thus the Cowboys, do not know squat. They HOPE that the Cowboys fail so they can blame the QB. But it’s only hope on their part. And that my friends, is sad.

That's what I'm saying, bro. Great post.

 

[Sydla]

we didn't have a veteran receiver that camp any where near ceedee lamb's talent level.
not one.
we had gallup and nothing.
we have no idea how talented or not this group is til we see the pre-season games.
but in no way does this compare to 2018.
ceedee lamb and gallup when he returns are miles ahead of that 2018 group.

The point wasn't to compare this year to that year. The point was that just because you have a lot of WRs on the roster doesn't mean that we have "depth". We had a lot of WRs on the roster in camp in 2018 too and we ended up having a WR issue.

We have one legitimate, healty WR on the roster right now. One. The rest are cross your fingers and hope to god they can play. That's not a sound strategy.

 

[jterrell]

It took the Cowboys 3 years to figure out Cedrick Wilson could play.
IMIO. they need to let these kids roll in Camp and then if they decide they need a little more vet juice they can get in on the cheap on a guy who will want to showcase his skill.

Job 1 of this offense will be getting CeeDee in that pantheon of elite WR targets.
CeeDee was at 7.5 targets per game last year but they need to get him to 10 this year.
Kupp led the league at 11.2 last year.

 

[Diehardblues]

Cowboys Zone - and other fan blogger sites should be that.
However - there are members here and everywhere else - that have a mantra/ create a cause / or to the point...plainly want to muck up any meaningful or insightful discussions and analyses.

Also - a fan blog provides moments for levity and humor, along with references to things and people away from (which I like).

But the inane back and forth personal insults that inevitably pop up from polar opposite opinions and sides just drag threads down.

In summary, one has to discern the good and bad, then participate in the former and skip the latter.

Agreed. But I was responding to someone who simply wants everyone to enjoy the entertainment level of following and rooting the team on tiring of the criticism.

Which I think most do enjoy the entertainment level for 60 minutes each game. It’s all of the talk in between which often gets muddled up.

I’m not sure why a fan who didn’t really want to hear the discussions and criticism would be interested in an open forum like this ? There are many other formats with endless FB pages on the Cowboys and affiliated sponsored and supporting mechanisms which wouid provide such a fan.

Why come on a fan forum to only complain about the fans complaining?

 

[Sydla]

common sense says wait and see when the games start.
there is as much reason to think the young guys will play well as there is they won't.
we'll get the answers when the pre-season starts.

There actually isn't. The odds are that the young guys will be nothing more than average WRs. Expecting a Vasher or Brown or Turpin to become a legitimate #2 type that can take pressure off Lamb until Gallup is back is a real reach.

There's no reason the Cowboys shouldn't have a vet WR added to the roster in the next week or so. But this is what Jerry and Stephen always do. They think their guys, the guys they drafted are better than they actually are.

 

[CyberB0b]

Hope isn’t a strategy.

 

[Sydla]

Of course, to begin the season we will need at least 2 of them to be the answer. We will be starting the season with only Lamb having any real NFL track record. Brown is the next most experienced with a total of 39 receptions over 4 years.

Obviously somebody could step up, but only Tolbert was considered enough of a prospect coming out of college to really feel good about his chances

Bingo.

And Tolbert is a middle round rookie, so the odds that he can hit the ground running and not need time to develop aren't great. It's more likely that it's going to take some time for him to find his stride in real live NFL game action, which isn't all that surprising for a rookie WR.

 

[cowboyec]

There actually isn't. The odds are that the young guys will be nothing more than average WRs. Expecting a Vasher or Brown or Turpin to become a legitimate #2 type that can take pressure off Lamb until Gallup is back is a real reach.

There's no reason the Cowboys shouldn't have a vet WR added to the roster in the next week or so. But this is what Jerry and Stephen always do. They think their guys, the guys they drafted are better than they actually are.

until we see the games...we don't really have an idea of how good or not this group is.
i'm not gonna assume they're untalented because i've never heard of them.
again..
this isn't 2018.
we cut dez with no one ready to take that role.
having ceedee lamb made it possible to trade coooop.
he'll be missed for sure...but this is completely different than 2018.

 

[jazzcat22]

Holy crap, first day on the job and he starts his vacation!!!

made it from DFW to Arkansas. My son Now driving, hope I can’t get some sleep.
Will spend a few minutes in here first though.

 

[Sydla]

until we see the games...we don't really have an idea of how good or not this group is.
i'm not gonna assume they're untalented because i've never heard of them.
again..
this isn't 2018.
we cut dez with no one ready to take that role.
having ceedee lamb made it possible to trade coooop.
he'll be missed for sure...but this is completely different than 2018.

We actually have a pretty decent idea. The odds are extremely likely that a guy like TJ Vasher will never be much more than an average NFL WR, if that. Turpin will likely never be anything more than just a decent NFL return guy. Brown? He's been in the league for years now, expecting him to develop into a Gallup type #2 WR is a real reach. As someone said above, hope isn't a sound strategy of team building.

You still aren't getting the point of the 2018 comparison. Its not about having one good WR or not. Someone made the comment that we have good depth at WR because we have 11 (or whatever) number of WRs on the depth chart to account for Washington's loss and Gallup not being ready for a handful of games.

Just having a bunch of WRs on the roster doesn't mean you have depth, especially when 10 or the 11 WRs are JAGs or mid to late round rookies.

 

[Motorola]

Agreed. But I was responding to someone who simply wants everyone to enjoy the entertainment level of following and rooting the team on tiring of the criticism.

Which I think most do enjoy the entertainment level for 60 minutes each game. It’s all of the talk in between which often gets muddled up.

I’m not sure why a fan who didn’t really want to hear the discussions and criticism would be interested in an open forum like this ? There are many other formats with endless FB pages on the Cowboys and affiliated sponsored and supporting mechanisms which wouid provide such a fan.

Why come on a fan forum to only complain about the fans complaining?

Much of that stems from reasonable discussions constantly being injected with the same old lame, humdrum responses that repeatedly pop up in various threads - be after a game loss or a free agent signing. There's a difference between criticism of the subject at hand - and just ranting and ragging on in general - with nothing of substance.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Fair question.......but one thing for sure, If they ARE NOT the answer, the price/risk could cost us the season. What's interesting about this issue is Jerry's doing all the talking. What does MM think? Who wanna bet a red penny he doesn't like it at all? Considering the Sean Payton rumors and his butt on the line, you're asking him to start the season ( 4-6 games) with only ONE WR with significant experience. No way in hell he's happy about it.

 

[Diehardblues]

Much of that stems from reasonable discussions constantly being injected with the same old lame, humdrum responses that repeatedly pop up in various threads - be after a game loss or a free agent signing. There's a difference between criticism of the subject at hand - and just ranting and ragging on in general - with nothing of substance.

Again I agree. But why submit yourself to all of this. Where’s the fun in that if you’re truly just looking for entertainment value .

 

[cowboyec]

We actually have a pretty decent idea. The odds are extremely likely that a guy like TJ Vasher will never be much more than an average NFL WR, if that. Turpin will likely never be anything more than just a decent NFL return guy. Brown? He's been in the league for years now, expecting him to develop into a Gallup type #2 WR is a real reach. As someone said above, hope isn't a sound strategy of team building.

You still aren't getting the point of the 2018 comparison. Its not about having one good WR or not. Someone made the comment that we have good depth at WR because we have 11 (or whatever) number of WRs on the depth chart to account for Washington's loss and Gallup not being ready for a handful of games.

Just having a bunch of WRs on the roster doesn't mean you have depth, especially when 10 or the 11 WRs are JAGs or mid to late round rookies.

we'll get a real clear picture of what this young group is when the pre-season games start.
there is no doubt opportunities are there for guys like vasher and houston among others to step up and step in.
based on reports so far...they are impressing.
we'll find out when the games start.
they may add a vet...my guess would be around cut down time.
we'll find out.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

We actually have a pretty decent idea. The odds are extremely likely that a guy like TJ Vasher will never be much more than an average NFL WR, if that. Turpin will likely never be anything more than just a decent NFL return guy. Brown? He's been in the league for years now, expecting him to develop into a Gallup type #2 WR is a real reach. As someone said above, hope isn't a sound strategy of team building.

You still aren't getting the point of the 2018 comparison. Its not about having one good WR or not. Someone made the comment that we have good depth at WR because we have 11 (or whatever) number of WRs on the depth chart to account for Washington's loss and Gallup not being ready for a handful of games.

Just having a bunch of WRs on the roster doesn't mean you have depth, especially when 10 or the 11 WRs are JAGs or mid to late round rookies.

Do you think MM and coaches are happy? I promise you they are not, their jobs are on the line, especially with Payton sitting out there.

 

[Doomsday101]

we'll get a real clear picture of what this young group is when the pre-season games start.
there is no doubt opportunities are there for guys like vasher and houston among others to step up and step in.
based on reports so far...they are impressing.
we'll find out when the games start.
they may add a vet...my guess would be around cut down time.
we'll find out.

I hope so, I remember Billy Davis, he was pre season HOF'er but as soon as the season started he vanished.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

based on reports so far...they are impressing.
we'll find out when the games start.

Honestly, I wouldn't read too much into that........