Who Do You Take? Calvin Johnson or Dez Bryant

[realtick]

psst, you realize the Dez has really started to come alive since Romo went down right? What happens when he gets back? More WOW factor or Calvin Johnson teaches him a lesson? Yeah, thats what I thought.

So no. THANK YOU for playing....

Look, I gave you kind reply in my last response.

At this point you're just being ignorant by not reading the posts and nevertheless interjecting.

My responses were not about Dez vs. CJ.

My responses to that poster were about MILES AUSTIN VS. CALVIN JOHNSON.

So your "thanks for your participation" ribbon is in the mail.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Well unfortunately, the discussion I was having with Yakuza wasn't about Dez vs. Calvin Johnson.

He was giving me his reasons for why he'd take Miles Austin over CJ too. That's his opinion, which is fine, but how he came to that conclusion is plainly silly.

BTW, as far as Dez vs. CJ, I'm taking Dez too, for all the same reasons you mentioned.

I love Dez's want-to, that's something that you're born with and a fire that can't be quenched.

Ahh, guess I didn't read far enough back, sorry about that. I think Austin and Calvin are similar WRs. What I like most about Austin is his strong lower body. It gives him the ability to break tackles after the catch. Johnson IMO is better at going up for the ball. (even though we've seen Austin do some good things too) They are both great and again. You can't lose with either one of them. I probably wouldn't even bother to debate it. If the choice came up, I just take one.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Look, I gave you kind reply in my last response.

At this point you're just being ignorant by not reading the posts and nevertheless interjecting.

My responses were not about Dez vs. CJ.

My responses to that poster were about MILES AUSTIN VS. CALVIN JOHNSON.

So your "thanks for your participation" ribbon is in the mail.

I responded first! :laugh2:

 

[realtick]

I responded first! :laugh2:

:........

 

[zrinkill]

thanks for playing.

Not playing ..... Romo has been hurt as well.

And all the excuses you are making for Calvin can be made for Austin.

It sounds like a stilltheguru excuse.

 

[Cowboysfan570]

What do you mean 88 v 3.0? I think you're forgetting about some beasts by the names of Antonio Bryant and Brett Pierce.

The problem with Antonio was never his skill on the field. The guy could have been great if he had the sort of team we've had the last few years and wasn't a nutjob.

Brett Pierce not so much though. :

 

[realtick]

Not playing ..... Romo has been hurt as well.

And all the excuses you are making for Calvin can be made for Austin.

It sounds like a stilltheguru excuse.

What are you failing to compute?

Saying they both (Romo and Stafford) have been hurt is a given.

There is a vast difference between missing 6 of 9 games (Stafford), than missing 3 of 9 (Romo).

Let me put you further into a corner; if it was Romo that had missed 6 of 9 games I'm sure you would be crowing all about that particular detail, wouldn't you? Because hypothetically, the production opportunities potentially missed by Austin with having his starting QB missing 6 of 9 games is huge.

I'm sure you realize this but simply don't want to acknowledge it.

 

[Cowboysfan570]

What are you failing to compute?

Saying they both (Romo and Stafford) have been hurt is a given.

There is a vast difference between missing 6 of 9 games (Stafford), than missing 3 of 9 (Romo).

Although I'm sure you realize this but just don't want to acknowledge it, lol.

Lets settle this. Miles Austin and Calvin Johnson are both great receivers. Johnson has been hurt by the fact that his QB has been out longer and the team around him is worse, but hes also been given more opportunities because hes by far their biggest threat.

Austin has had to deal with Williams, Bryant and Witten taking opportunities away, but they also help him get open as they need to be covered a lot better than Detroit's other receivers do.

Who is better? Who cares? They're both great and do great things for their respective teams. Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Roddy White, Reggie Wayne, Hakeem Nicks, Desean Jackson, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Chad Ochocinco, Brandon Marshall and (very soon) Dez Bryant are also great and do great things for their teams.

Theres too many great receivers in the league to determine effectively who the greatest is. It's not Jerry Rice vs. everyone else anymore.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Well unfortunately, the discussion I was having with Yakuza wasn't about Dez vs. Calvin Johnson.

He was giving me his reasons for why he'd take Miles Austin over CJ too. That's his opinion, which is fine, but how he came to that conclusion is plainly silly.

How is it 'silly?'

I have points, which I made about the weaknesses I see in both players' games. I then got called into question that I didn't watch Calvin since he was a frosh in college (I lived in Atlanta for 10 years, about 15 minutes from the Ga. Tech campus and worked 2 miles from the Ga. Tech campus and saw most of the Ga. Tech games). I was then chastised because apparently, gaining separation in the NFL doesn't mean anything. Then to back it all up, I provided the stats of Miles vs. CJ since '09 and now we forget that Miles didn't start the first 4 games of last season.

I think CJ is a really good WR, but I'd rather have Miles over him because Miles can consistently get separation. Johnson is big and fast, but he takes longer to get to full speed and isn't as quick. And he struggles to make the tough catches too often.

It's not like Miles is putting up Bernard Berrian numbers. Even footballoutsiders.com has his ranked far better statistically since '09 than CJ as well as KC Joyner (who ranked Miles the #1 WR in football last year).

I would hate to face Miles if I was a CB because if you try to press him, he's so strong he can fend off the jam and then has the speed to blow by you. If you lay off, he does well on short-to-intermediate pass patterns and is extremely tough to tackle.







YR

 

[zrinkill]

What are you failing to compute?

Nothing.

Here is his stats.

2007 - 15g (10gs), 48rec, 756yards, 4tds
2008 - 16g (16gs), 78rec, 1331yards, 12tds
2009 - 14g (14gs), 67rec, 984yards, 5tds
2010 - 9g (9gs), 49rec, 679yards, 9tds

In 4 years he has

One 1000+ season
One 900+ season
One 500+ seasons
and one incomplete.

Very very similar too what Roy had in his first 4 years with the Lions when he also had lesser QB's throwing to him.

 

[realtick]

The problem with Antonio was never his skill on the field. The guy could have been great if he had the sort of team we've had the last few years and wasn't a nutjob.

You're absolutely right.

Antonio Bryant was a tremendous talent, he was just a complete knuckle head.

He also suffered by being placed on some teams with horrid QB situations (Dallas: Quincy Carter, Chad Hutchinson Cleveland: Trent Dilfer, Charlie Frye, Luke McKnown San Francisco: Alex Smith)

Despite those facts, A. Bryant has still produced at a relatively high level.

I really think if A. Bryant wasn't a numbskull his entire career, we would look at him as the same caliber of receiver as say Chad Johnson.

 

[realtick]

Nothing.

Here is his stats.

2007 - 15g (10gs), 48rec, 756yards, 4tds
2008 - 16g (16gs), 78rec, 1331yards, 12tds
2009 - 14g (14gs), 67rec, 984yards, 5tds
2010 - 9g (9gs), 49rec, 679yards, 9tds

In 4 years he has

One 1000+ season
One 900+ season
Two 500+ seasons

Very very similar too what Roy had in his first 4 years with the Lions when he also had lesser QB's throwing to him.

Awesome.

A response that has absolutely nothing to do with your original post to me.

But just to play along, last season was his first with a rookie QB (Stafford). Please list all the receivers/seasons that have had great seasons when they were first paired with a rookie QB?

This year he's still actually having a very good season DESPITE the fact his starting QB has missed 6 of the teams 9 games.

So are we now comparing Calvin Johnson to Roy Williams? If so, let me know.

 

[zrinkill]

Awesome.

A response that has absolutely nothing to do with your original post to me.

Its does because he is still having an above average year for him as a starter.

 

[ringmaster]

See I don't see how Calvin is better than Miles.

Miles has a much better all around game imo and can create for himself better than Calvin can.

Not to mention Miles might be the best Run after Catch guy in the league and most unique receiver in the league.

Something else to consider Miles Austin went undrafted from Mammouth University, and Calvin Johnson a first round pick from Georgia Tech.

Calvin Johnson is a terrific WR a top 5 imo also Johnson, was a well known commodity coming out of college from a D1 program so he was easily a concensus 1st round choice.

Miles Austin didn't have the national exposure Johnson had coming out of Mammouth University, he wasn't even talked about much during the 2003 draft the only thing I heard Kiper, say about Austin was keep an eye on him as an undrafted free agent.

As for whose better Johnson, would be the clear cut choice because he's been a starter his whole career with numbers to back it up, and Austin beacame the starter last season and if Austin, was able to do what he did last year earlier in his NFL career he would be a top 5 as well and there wouldn't even be any room for this argument.

 

[realtick]

How is it 'silly?'

I think CJ is a really good WR, but I'd rather have Miles over him because Miles can consistently get separation. Johnson is big and fast, but he takes longer to get to full speed and isn't as quick. And he struggles to make the tough catches too often.

It's not like Miles is putting up Bernard Berrian numbers. Even footballoutsiders.com has his ranked far better statistically since '09 than CJ as well as KC Joyner (who ranked Miles the #1 WR in football last year).

I would hate to face Miles if I was a CB because if you try to press him, he's so strong he can fend off the jam and then has the speed to blow by you. If you lay off, he does well on short-to-intermediate pass patterns and is extremely tough to tackle.

YR

Your infatuation with catch% (which is a flimsy stat to begin with) is silly, so is your subjective take on CJ's apparent failure to get seperation and up to "full speed."

Why? Because your missing the forest for the trees...

Again, my analogy of you descrediting a guy for sleeping with a super model because you didn't like the way he spit his game to her in the club is on point.

In other words, you're disregarding his production and criticizing how he goes about producing.

You want to bring up Miles supposed domination of CJ statistically, when he's got just a mere 46 yards more than CJ for the year.

You don't want acknowledge the fact CJ has 9 TDs to Austin's 3 TDs.

You also want to gloss over the fact that despite the fact CJ has been without his starting QB six out of the nine games played, he's still been able to put up those numbers.

Yes, Austin has missed playing w/Romo for three games himself, but there is a vast difference between three games and six games of potential production. Not to mention, some of Austin's worst games, you know, the ones you refuse to say he struggled in were with Romo playing.

You highlighted some reasons of why you would hate to face Austin, I agree with those statements.

I would also hate to face CJ, a 6'5" 236 lb monster who can outjump and outrace you (4.33).

 

[stilltheguru]

Not playing ..... Romo has been hurt as well.

And all the excuses you are making for Calvin can be made for Austin.

It sounds like a stilltheguru excuse.

??? This is the same dude who can't even admit TO isn't "finished". Just stop talking man, you have already proven to be a frontrunner. When things are going as you say you run your trap like no other. When you prove to look like a ******* you are quiet as a mouse. Grow a pair

 

[NeonNinja]

??? This is the same dude who can't even admit TO isn't "finished". Just stop talking man, you have already proven to be a frontrunner. When things are going as you say you run your trap like no other. When you prove to look like a ******* you are quiet as a mouse. Grow a pair

Go worship on a Bengals forum.

 

[realtick]

Its does because he is still having an above average year for him as a starter.

Who? Calvin Johnson?

OK, let's do a virtual high-five because you're indirectly supporting my contention.

Yes, Calvin Johnson is having a very good season despite the fact his starting QB has missed 6 of the 9 games the Lions have played.

*BTW, 1/3 of CJ's TD production came in the three games he played with Stafford.

 

[Everson24]

I'm glad we have Dez and Miles but really disappointed that with all the receiving talent on this team we are 2-7. I was so looking forward to watching this offense click down the stretch and into the playoffs. Jerry and Wade wasted a year of Miles and Dez talent.

 

[zrinkill]

Who? Calvin Johnson?

OK, let's do a virtual high-five because you're indirectly supporting my contention.

Yes, Calvin Johnson is having a very good season despite the fact his starting QB has missed 6 of the 9 games the Lions have played.

*BTW, 1/3 of CJ's TD production came in the three games he played with Stafford.

As long as we can virtual high five about Miles doing the same.