who is going to be the backup QB?

[superpunk]

I don't have a problem with Carr coming in but as I just said in my last post you do not commit to Romo and then bring in a guy to share snaps. As the starter Romo has to get the bulk of the snaps, he has to get the time with the starters. When you have an open competition those snaps are being shared fairly even and time with the starter is shared. If Jones feels Romo is the guy then give him the chance to be the man and the only way that is done is if he is getting the snaps and the work as the starting QB.

Yeah. Not an open competition per se - just know that the best player plays. The Jets split snaps last offseason. Pennington responded, took the job and had a very nice year throwing to Laveraneus Coles and Jericho Cotchery, and handing off to one of the worst RB tandems in the league, even with his rag-doll arm.

I'm just saying - no matter how the competition is rpesented, the best player always wins. I'm pretty sure of that by now. If we bring in a guy like Carr, and he's better than Romo, that will show. If he's not, that will show, too. Either way, it's good for the Cowboys.

 

[Doomsday101]

Wrong. Romo is the guy if he proves to be the guy and if he stays healthy. You bring in the best talent you can at all positions and create compatition.

As for the value of Carr, well, if it were to only cost us a 5th round pick, that alone is value. He's started and won games in the NFL. He's got enough talent to win games for you off the bench. How can there not be value if you were able to get that guy as your backup?

I'll bet it is going to take more than a 5th for Carr. That number is being throw out there but in the end teams who feel Carr could help them as a starter will offer more than a 5th rd. Look at it this way the bidding starts at a 5th rd pick it will not end up being a 5th rd pick some one will offer more

 

[carphalen5150]

Wrong. Romo is the guy if he proves to be the guy and if he stays healthy. You bring in the best talent you can at all positions and create compatition.

As for the value of Carr, well, if it were to only cost us a 5th round pick, that alone is value. He's started and won games in the NFL. He's got enough talent to win games for you off the bench. How can there not be value if you were able to get that guy as your backup?

At this point I would be more comfortable with Rattay as the QB. He knows he would be the back up and at this point is not someone you would have to rebuild like Carr.

 

[Doomsday101]

Yeah. Not an open competition per se - just know that the best player plays. The Jets split snaps last offseason. Pennington responded, took the job and had a very nice year throwing to Laveraneus Coles and Jericho Cotchery, and handing off to one of the worst RB tandems in the league, even with his rag-doll arm.

I'm just saying - no matter how the competition is rpesented, the best player always wins. I'm pretty sure of that by now. If we bring in a guy like Carr, and he's better than Romo, that will show. If he's not, that will show, too. Either way, it's good for the Cowboys.

I agree with you. I just think sooner or later you have to step up and say this is our guy and then give him every chance to succeed.

 

[superpunk]

I agree with you. I just think sooner or later you have to step up and say this is our guy and then give him every chance to succeed.

You know what says that best...:jackpot:

 

[silver]

i would like Jake Plummer as the back up, somebody who can actually perform if needed. Carr is not very good IMO. He seems gun shy with all the beatings he's taken physically and mentally in Houston.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

They both came in the same season and Walsh was gone by the following year after that no Dallas never brought in a QB to compete with Troy. Sorry Beuerline was brought in to backup he never went to camp to compete not when Troy was getting the vast amount of snaps in camp. To compete your talking about spitting snaps fairly even and that is great if your not committed to a QB but that is about to change when Jerry and Romo sit down and come up with a long term contract. At that point Romo needs to be getting the vast majority of the snaps not sharing them

Yeah, he was gone and for what Dooms? What did it cost New Orleans to get him? Not a very compelling example IMO. Only lends support as to why you sign talented QBs when you have opportunity to do so.

As for Beuerline, let me just remind you that there were plenty of people who were calling for Beuerline to be the starter. I was not one of them and in truth, the team never really considered it either, IMO, but this all goes back to my original question. Who had enough talent to beat out Aikman? I've heard Aikman interview on this. He himself will tell you that he did not like the fact that Walsh or Beuerline were signed but the fact that they were on the team made him work that much harder. In effect, they helped him become better. That's the way it works in sports. I will add that had we not had Beuerline on the team, we may not have won three SuperBowls. In the end, we traded Beuerline and got value for him as well. If you have a good team, you need to have QBs who can come off the bench and win games for you. Here is an article from Aikman that speaks to this somewhat. It is specifically talking about carrying only 2 QBs on the roster but it address the need for capable QBs on a good team.

http://fantasy.sportingnews.com/nfl/articles/20031016/499222.html

Aikman on if Steve Beuerlein is a good fit for Denver with Jake Plummer out:
"He's been a Pro Bowl player, a smart guy. He's not going to get the team beat by some of the decisions that he makes."
It's going to be a little different style than what they are accustomed to with Jake Plummer. Clearly when Jake's in the game they have the threat of a running quarterback, someone who can move. It makes things a little more difficult for a defense to defend them.

Steve Beuerlein has been in this league game a long time. He's won a lot of games for a lot of different teams. He's been a Pro Bowl player, a smart guy. He's not going to get the team beat by some of the decisions that he makes. I think he'll be fine. He came in last week, kind of getting his feet back into playing and was able to pull off a victory against Pittsburgh. I think Steve Beuerlein will be fine, they'll just have to do things a little bit differently but Mike Shanahan is fully capable of taking advantage of some of his skills.

Aikman on if Beuerlein was the right backup QB for the job at his age:
"They wanted a veteran guy who knew the system. Mike Shanahan knows exactly what he's got in Steve Beuerlein."
Yeah, I think it was because Steve Beuerlein was actually considering retirement and Mike Shanahan visited with him and talked him into coming back and playing. Part of that was uncertainty as to how effective Jake Plummer would be. Clearly they thought Jake would be a fine player for them but in the event that he did not pan out, they wanted a veteran guy who knew the system.

Mike Shanahan knows exactly what he's got in Steve Beuerlein. He coached him with the Raiders. As a quarterback, the more you have to play, the more your weaknesses get exposed. I think the biggest concern with Steve will be his health. They went into the season with two quarterbacks. Now Jake Plummer is out for a number of weeks and Steve Beuerlein comes in and he's someone who has been banged up in recent years and that's part of the reason why he has not been a starter. He's had a hard time staying healthy, particularly when he finished up at Carolina.

Now they've got Danny Kanell backing him up. You'd hate to see what would happen if Steve Beuerlein goes down. Remember, this is still a football team that runs the football with Clinton Portis, an outstanding running back on an outstanding running team. If they can keep that going and use the play action like they did with Jake Plummer, Steve Beuerlein will put up some good numbers too.

Aikman on if it's a good idea to only have two QBs going into the season:
"I don't believe that it is if you're a team that is contending."
I don't believe that it is if you're a team that is contending and you feel that you are a playoff team going into the season, which Denver clearly felt that they were going into the year.

Now all of the sudden, you bring in Danny Kanell who like I said, if Steve Beuerlein goes down and he goes down this week and you bring in Danny who really hasn't been exposed that much to this offense, then you risk success for that entire football team. I think it's an injustice to the rest of the team when you allow a position, particularly the quarterback position, to be affected the way it can be affected if Steve Beuerlein goes down.

Aikman on if Denver can contain Minnesota's offense:
"They should give Minnesota more problems than what Minnesota has recently seen."
Minnesota has Daunte Culpepper coming back, and how much is the layoff going to affect him? I think people automatically think that when a quarterback is able to rest and get healthy, that the guy just steps in and plays great. Daunte had been playing well prior to his injury, but how well he's able to play, we'll find out. Gus Frerotte was playing exceptional and there are probably some people there that feel he should probably still be the quarterback.

Regardless of who's throwing the football for them, Denver has to find a way to contain Randy Moss. Even when teams double team him, they still throw him the ball and he still goes up and still makes the plays. Slowing him down will be key. I think Larry Coyer, the defensive coordinator for Denver, has done an outstanding job. They're fifth in the league in pass defense, so they should give Minnesota more problems than what Minnesota has recently seen.

Aikman on if Steve Beuerlein is a good fit for Denver with Jake Plummer out:
"He's been a Pro Bowl player, a smart guy. He's not going to get the team beat by some of the decisions that he makes."
It's going to be a little different style than what they are accustomed to with Jake Plummer. Clearly when Jake's in the game they have the threat of a running quarterback, someone who can move. It makes things a little more difficult for a defense to defend them.

Steve Beuerlein has been in this league game a long time. He's won a lot of games for a lot of different teams. He's been a Pro Bowl player, a smart guy. He's not going to get the team beat by some of the decisions that he makes. I think he'll be fine. He came in last week, kind of getting his feet back into playing and was able to pull off a victory against Pittsburgh. I think Steve Beuerlein will be fine, they'll just have to do things a little bit differently but Mike Shanahan is fully capable of taking advantage of some of his skills.

Aikman on if Beuerlein was the right backup QB for the job at his age:
"They wanted a veteran guy who knew the system. Mike Shanahan knows exactly what he's got in Steve Beuerlein."
Yeah, I think it was because Steve Beuerlein was actually considering retirement and Mike Shanahan visited with him and talked him into coming back and playing. Part of that was uncertainty as to how effective Jake Plummer would be. Clearly they thought Jake would be a fine player for them but in the event that he did not pan out, they wanted a veteran guy who knew the system.

Mike Shanahan knows exactly what he's got in Steve Beuerlein. He coached him with the Raiders. As a quarterback, the more you have to play, the more your weaknesses get exposed. I think the biggest concern with Steve will be his health. They went into the season with two quarterbacks. Now Jake Plummer is out for a number of weeks and Steve Beuerlein comes in and he's someone who has been banged up in recent years and that's part of the reason why he has not been a starter. He's had a hard time staying healthy, particularly when he finished up at Carolina.

Now they've got Danny Kanell backing him up. You'd hate to see what would happen if Steve Beuerlein goes down. Remember, this is still a football team that runs the football with Clinton Portis, an outstanding running back on an outstanding running team. If they can keep that going and use the play action like they did with Jake Plummer, Steve Beuerlein will put up some good numbers too.

Aikman on if it's a good idea to only have two QBs going into the season:
"I don't believe that it is if you're a team that is contending."
I don't believe that it is if you're a team that is contending and you feel that you are a playoff team going into the season, which Denver clearly felt that they were going into the year.

Now all of the sudden, you bring in Danny Kanell who like I said, if Steve Beuerlein goes down and he goes down this week and you bring in Danny who really hasn't been exposed that much to this offense, then you risk success for that entire football team. I think it's an injustice to the rest of the team when you allow a position, particularly the quarterback position, to be affected the way it can be affected if Steve Beuerlein goes down.

Aikman on if Denver can contain Minnesota's offense:
"They should give Minnesota more problems than what Minnesota has recently seen."
Minnesota has Daunte Culpepper coming back, and how much is the layoff going to affect him? I think people automatically think that when a quarterback is able to rest and get healthy, that the guy just steps in and plays great. Daunte had been playing well prior to his injury, but how well he's able to play, we'll find out. Gus Frerotte was playing exceptional and there are probably some people there that feel he should probably still be the quarterback.

Regardless of who's throwing the football for them, Denver has to find a way to contain Randy Moss. Even when teams double team him, they still throw him the ball and he still goes up and still makes the plays. Slowing him down will be key. I think Larry Coyer, the defensive coordinator for Denver, has done an outstanding job. They're fifth in the league in pass defense, so they should give Minnesota more problems than what Minnesota has recently seen.

 

[carphalen5150]

I don't know about this Dooms. In 89, Steve Walsh was brought in from Miami (Jimmy's Boy), with a 1st round pick. Granted he was a rookie but he was a very highly thought of rookie. In 91, Steve Beuerline was brought in to compete. Granted, he could not beat out Troy but he certainly had talent. In 1993, Kosar was brought in and he could play. He couldn't beat out Troy and he was closer to the end of his career then the start but still, he was a proven winner. Jason Garrett was pretty much the back up after that and that stayed that way till 2000 when we signed Cunningham, who eventually became the starter.

I'd say a more accurate statement might be that we never brought in anybody who had the talent to beat out Aikman but that's not a hard thing to understand. Who was out there that had more talent then Aikman? Not the same thing with Romo IMO.

Walsh was brought in strictly as a trading chip. This was on the heels of the Walker deal and Jimmy brought him in to trade him. Aikman clearly was the future, there was never any competition between them.

As for Beurline, Kosar, whoever else you want to bring up...none of them were ever brought here to compete with Troy. It was clear they were the back up. If they made it clear that Carr was the back up, then fine. Romo is clearly the starter, despite how many times you say Wrong.

 

[tecolote]

It is a difference in philosophy. I am of the opinion that you bring in the very best players you can at every position and you create compatition everywhere. I believe the cream rises to the top. There is really no reason that Romo should lose his position to anybody so if you bring in a guy to compete, it shouldn't do anything more then elivate Romo's play. If it does not, then he was not the better player. I don't expect this out of Romo BTW. I expect that he will win the starting job but I also believe that a guy who can win you games in the NFL off the bench is a nice luxury to have. If you can have that, then you might as well take advantage of it. The other thing that you have to remember is that QBs are worth there weight in gold. Look at Philly. If they had not signed Garcia, they never would have beaten us. They never would have made the playoffs. There are going to be teams out there who need QBs. If you have a guy who is the backup and can play, your going to get value out of him. The return on investment alone is reasoning enough IMO.

I understand why you don't like this kind of move but I think the value far exceeds the potential risks here.

I see what you are saying, but I guess we´ll have to agree to disagree.

This has been a very interesting offseason and it should only get better.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Walsh was brought in strictly as a trading chip. This was on the heels of the Walker deal and Jimmy brought him in to trade him. Aikman clearly was the future, there was never any competition between them.

As for Beurline, Kosar, whoever else you want to bring up...none of them were ever brought here to compete with Troy. It was clear they were the back up. If they made it clear that Carr was the back up, then fine. Romo is clearly the starter, despite how many times you say Wrong.

No, he was not. You don't spend a #1 pick on a guy who is brought in as a "trading chip". You even listen to Jimmy and Jerry on this and they both say that Walsh was brought in to insure that the Cowboys had a QB of the future in place. The fact that he could not beat out Troy is secondary. The plan was to secure a franchise QB and that's why Walsh was drafted. It just so happens that when it was clear Aikman was the man, the team elected to trade Walsh and take advantage of the opportunity to profit.

As for Beuerline, Kosar and the rest, sure they came in to back up but that doesn't mean that Troy didn't have to perform. Both Beuerline and Kosar were Pro Bowl QBs who won playoff games in there own right. No matter how you slice it, Troy had to insure he was always ready to compete and win. Jimmy brought in guys who were talented and could win. Not scrubbs to hold a place on the roster.

 

[Sasquatch]

I think bringing in a Carr is exactly the correct message for Romo. Get better cause if you don't, somebody will definatly be gaining on you.

Romo is not a sure thing. He is a 5th year QB who did some nice things last season and shows great promise. He is not a sure thing. It does not hurt to have a David Carr on the roster pushing Romo. It would be a great investment, IMO, for the Cowboys. At worst, he would be an experienced backup QB with talent. At best, somebody will need a QB in the next year or two. That 5th round investment could easily become a 2nd round return for a team who needed a QB. I'd do it if a deal were there to be made.

 

[Sasquatch]

I am not saying to baby the QB. Romo is the QB for now and the future, plain and simple.

Romo is only the QB of the future if he consistently performs at a high level. If he doesn't, we better have a sound backup plan. If he can't handle the competition that will come from bringing in someone like Carr, he's probably not the long-term solution at QB.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I don't know how much it would take to get Carr or another veteran, but Romo likes to run around and that increases his odds of injury.

I'm thinking Steve DeBerg...

 

[carphalen5150]

No, he was not. You don't spend a #1 pick on a guy who is brought in as a "trading chip". You even listen to Jimmy and Jerry on this and they both say that Walsh was brought in to insure that the Cowboys had a QB of the future in place. The fact that he could not beat out Troy is secondary. The plan was to secure a franchise QB and that's why Walsh was drafted. It just so happens that when it was clear Aikman was the man, the team elected to trade Walsh and take advantage of the opportunity to profit.

As for Beuerline, Kosar and the rest, sure they came in to back up but that doesn't mean that Troy didn't have to perform. Both Beuerline and Kosar were Pro Bowl QBs who won playoff games in there own right. No matter how you slice it, Troy had to insure he was always ready to compete and win. Jimmy brought in guys who were talented and could win. Not scrubbs to hold a place on the roster.

Jerry and Jimmy say alot of things, but it was clear that Aikman was the guy and it made sense to deal Walsh. You don't draft QBs back to back with first round picks to "solidify" the position. He clearly was a trading chip...my evidence of that is that he was traded. Jimmy and Jerry knew Aikman was the franchise guy, but they could see the value of having Walsh to gather more draft picks.

BTW...Bringing in Rattay is not a scrub move. He is a very solid back up.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Jerry and Jimmy say alot of things, but it was clear that Aikman was the guy and it made sense to deal Walsh. You don't draft QBs back to back with first round picks to "solidify" the position. He clearly was a trading chip...my evidence of that is that he was traded. Jimmy and Jerry knew Aikman was the franchise guy, but they could see the value of having Walsh to gather more draft picks.

BTW...Bringing in Rattay is not a scrub move. He is a very solid back up.

So, I guess what your telling me is that I should believe what you say over what Jimmy and Jerry have said on the subject, it that correct?

OK then, your evidence, right........

In 1989, we selected Troy Aikman #1 overall. We signed him to the richest rookie contract in the history of the NFL at the time. Troy never intended to hold out and Steinberg made certain that the Cowboys new this. In the supplemental draft of 1989, the Cowboys drafted Walsh with there 1st pick in the 1990 draft. In 1989, the Cowboys went 1-15 which represented the #1 draft pick in the 1990 draft. However, this pick was used to take Walsh in the supplemental draft. The fact that the Cowboys drafted Walsh only served to increase the price of signing Aikman. A bargining chip, right...........

Ratty, servicable, OK. I can live with that but if you had the choice between Ratty and Carr, it's NC.

Carr is the superior talent. Not saying we will have that choice but if we did, Carr would be the smarter move IMO.

 

[TheProphet]

Well, if memory serves me correctly we have a "fine" previous starting QB who many stated was "vastly talented" lying perpendicular on his couch waiting for the phone ring. He sucks down bong hits, to help pass the time. His name? One Quincy Carter.
Who knows, ole Q may just get the call from Wade, after all he must be very well rested at this point. LOL.
Would Wade really be this dumb? Let's hope not guys. LOL.
Thoughts?

 

[philo beddoe]

Well, if memory serves me correctly we have a "fine" previous starting QB who many stated was "vastly talented" lying perpendicular on his couch waiting for the phone ring. He sucks down bong hits, to help pass the time. His name? One Quincy Carter.
Who knows, ole Q may just get the call from Wade, after all he must be very well rested at this point. LOL.
Would Wade really be this dumb? Let's hope not guys. LOL.
Thoughts?

LOL, yes, bring back "Puff The Magic Q". It was a shame we ever let this star leave our team.

 

[Doomsday101]

I don't care if Carr comes or not but I do want to see Romo get the vast majority of the snaps you can't sit there playing musical QB sooner of later you hitch your wagon to a guy and give him a chance and that mean he is getting the practice snaps not sharing them, he is working solely with the 1st unit. If Dallas is going to step up and pay Romo as a starter then damn it treat him like a starter and if you look at any team with a legit starter they don't bring in top QB to compete unless they are looking to make change. ABQCOWBOY as for Beuerlein he came to Dallas as a backup he never took any snaps away from Aikman, nor did Kosar. They came to give Dallas a legit backup player not one to come in and take over the job or to compete for the job. As for Walsh your right both he and Troy came in at the same time and to a certain extent they competed for the job but once the commitment was made to Troy they got rid of Walsh they did not hold on to him to have competition year in and year out.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't care if Carr comes or not but I do want to see Romo get the vast majority of the snaps you can't sit there playing musical QB sooner of later you hitch your wagon to a guy and give him a chance and that mean he is getting the practice snaps not sharing them, he is working solely with the 1st unit. If Dallas is going to step up and pay Romo as a starter then damn it treat him like a starter and if you look at any team with a legit starter they don't bring in top QB to compete unless they are looking to make change. ABQCOWBOY as for Beuerlein he came to Dallas as a backup he never took any snaps away from Aikman, nor did Kosar. They came to give Dallas a legit backup player not one to come in and take over the job or to compete for the job. As for Walsh your right both he and Troy came in at the same time and to a certain extent they competed for the job but once the commitment was made to Troy they got rid of Walsh they did not hold on to him to have competition year in and year out.

Nobody ever said snaps would be taken from Romo. I know that I specifically stated that Carr would be a great back up. However, if Romo is not the QB we all hope he is, it would not hurt to have a talented QB on the roster. Holmgren is a big believer in this and so am I. Had he not brought in Matt Hasselbeck to complete with Dilfer, the Sea Hawks would not be in the position there in today. Had GB not brought in Favre when they had Majik, they wouldn't not have enjoyed the success they did in the 90s. Had San Francisco not signed Young when they already had Montana, they would not have won a championship in 94. If you read that article, you see that Aikman is a believer in having talent on the bench at QB as your backups. Why do you bring in a talented Vet QB as opposed to a young developmental guy in our situation? You do that because you don't have enough snaps to go around. Again, it's just more justification to make a move such as this IMO. If your going to say that Romo needs all the development time, you have to be willing to agree that the ONLY WAY THAT MAKES SENSE is if you bring in a talented veteran backup. You must also be open to the possability that further development also means not completely proven. Otherwise, the need for a vast majority of snaps would not be so important.

 

[Doomsday101]

Nobody ever said snaps would be taken from Romo. I know that I specifically stated that Carr would be a great back up. However, if Romo is not the QB we all hope he is, it would not hurt to have a talented QB on the roster. Holmgren is a big believer in this and so am I. Had he not brought in Matt Hasselbeck to complete with Dilfer, the Sea Hawks would not be in the position there in today. Had GB not brought in Favre when they had Majik, they wouldn't not have enjoyed the success they did in the 90s. Had San Francisco not signed Young when they already had Montana, they would not have won a championship in 94. If you read that article, you see that Aikman is a believer in having talent on the bench at QB as your backups. Why do you bring in a talented Vet QB as opposed to a young developmental guy in our situation? You do that because you don't have enough snaps to go around. Again, it's just more justification to make a move such as this IMO. If your going to say that Romo needs all the development time, you have to be willing to agree that the ONLY WAY THAT MAKES SENSE is if you bring in a talented veteran backup. You must also be open to the possability that further development also means not completely proven. Otherwise, the need for a vast majority of snaps would not be so important.

I believe in having talent for a backup as well and I have said I want Dallas to bring in a vet as a backup QB I would also like to see us draft a QB in day 2of the draft. What I'm talking about is Romo getting the same type of reps afforded to any starting QB. As for Carr I don't think he wants to be a backup QB which is why I highly doubt he will come to Dallas because that is exactly what his role on the team would be backup and backups do not get near the snaps the starting QB gets.