Who still thinks Zeke was a mistake at #4?

Romotil45

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hold on there cowboy. i think the pair are doing very well and doing very well for us here.

i'm not about to get anal and micro-analyze who is more important in a team sport. this mix is working. period.

I like Dak don't get me wrong he's shown great poise as a rookie but hes working with 1/4 the playbook. He seeing a very high percentage of 3rd n short because of Zeke. He's only reading half the field 80 percent of the time. He is simply a bus driver right now. I have high hopes for Daks future but hes got some serious work to do. Contrary to popular opinion Dak is not a franchise QB, not YET.
 

iceberg

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I like Dak don't get me wrong he's shown great poise as a rookie but hes working with 1/4 the playbook. He seeing a very high percentage of 3rd n short because of Zeke. He's only reading half the field 80 percent of the time. He is simply a bus driver right now. I have high hopes for Daks future but hes got some serious work to do. Contrary to popular opinion Dak is not a franchise QB, not YET.
a bus driver would not have us at 6-1 w/only zeke to be "the man".

this pair has brought us this far and they've done it with missing weapons to start the year in dez being out. there are times he does in fact look like a rookie but not many, and he does seem to learn quick.

i have high hopes for this pair to be around for a long time. and again, i'm not going to microanalyze how we'd be without one or the other. too busy just enjoying them both on the cowboys.
 

ondaedg

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So he would need to be near the rookie rushing record to be worth it?

I don't think he needed to produce that highly to warrant the pick. If they drafted a DB, that DB wouldn't need double digit interceptions to warrant the pick. If they drafted a DE, that guy wouldn't need 18 sacks to warrant the pick. A single season of great success also doesn't warrant the pick. We won't know Elliot's true measure of success for several years hopefully.

With 3 pro bowl OLinemen and a defensive line that absolutely struggles getting to the QB, YES he would need to break the rookie rushing record to justify the pick. And he may just end up doing that.
 

T-RO

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Who still thinks Zeke was a mistake at #4?
I did. I don't now! Beyond the blocks...he's very special.
 

CVN68_Cowboys

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With 3 pro bowl OLinemen and a defensive line that absolutely struggles getting to the QB, YES he would need to break the rookie rushing record to justify the pick. And he may just end up doing that.

Kind of a ridiculous standard, isn't it? Emmitt didn't break that record, and he ended up being okay.
 

Rogerthat12

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It not a matter of Zeke being a beast or not. Most of us "no Zeke at 4" guys knew he would be a beast behind this line. That's not the point. It's just not smart football to take a RB that high. I was first in favor of a trade back if possible next Bosa then Ramsey. Would be nice to have Ramsey now that Claiborn n Church are down but that's all hindsight. No even in retrospect I still don't take Zeke at 4.

Positional value goes out the door in the top 5 and with respect to elite talent.
 

Oh_Canada

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To answer your question-I did and was wrong, though my guy was Bosa all along and he went before him anyhow.
 

ondaedg

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Kind of a ridiculous standard, isn't it? Emmitt didn't break that record, and he ended up being okay.

My logic is teams that take the ball away and get to the QB win championships. Rarely can a RB have such an impact that they can hide major deficiencies on defense especially in today's NFL. Zeke is showing he may be an exception which I am ecstatic about. But if it were me, I would have went D in the 1st round before I would have drafted a RB. I'm just glad that he is showing that he may be exceptional in an era of football where exceptional RBs are rare.
 

jterrell

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Me.
Still.

Ultimately Zeke has looked the part of a true anomaly and he may be the guy to lead us to a Super Bowl.
If he does that then of course he was a great pick....
BUT... he is still a RB and he could get dinged anytime and he could decline seriously if dinged.

Put this another way.
If there was a re-draft tomorrow.

Would Zeke go before 4?
I don't think so.

I believe he might even go 5th.

Because Dak and Wentz absolutely go before him.
Joey Bosa probably as well.
So the possible 4th person to beat him out is top overall pick and QB, Jared Goff.
Goff has done zero but he was and likely still is a franchise QB prospect.
So it's possible Zeke could be the top rookie and a real MVP candidate but still FALL one spot in an NFL re-draft.

I am hoping for nothing but greatness form Zeke.
Love watching him play.
But in a GM hat I'd NEVER draft a running back top 5 for any reason, ever.

If Zeke wins a couple playoff games he will basically be matching the career successes of Peterson and Tomlinson.
RB is a hard position to win from.
But Dallas is absolutely is doing it right now and it is a joy to watch.
 

CVN68_Cowboys

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My logic is teams that take the ball away and get to the QB win championships. Rarely can a RB have such an impact that they can hide major deficiencies on defense especially in today's NFL. Zeke is showing he may be an exception which I am ecstatic about. But if it were me, I would have went D in the 1st round before I would have drafted a RB. I'm just glad that he is showing that he may be exceptional in an era of football where exceptional RBs are rare.

Except when they don't. People have this idea for some reason you have to be the 2000 Baltimore Ravens to win the SB. That just isn't so. There have been as many as four teams in the past 7-8 years with defenses ranked anywhere from 12-19. The people that thought you had to take some developmental D player there were wrong, plain and simple. Nothing will ever change that, and the more they spin and make excuses, the more this football will be spiked right in their faces.
 

jterrell

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Except when they don't. People have this idea for some reason you have to be the 2000 Baltimore Ravens to win the SB. That just isn't so. There have been as many as four teams in the past 7-8 years with defenses ranked anywhere from 12-19. The people that thought you had to take some developmental D player there were wrong, plain and simple. Nothing will ever change that, and the more they spin and make excuses, the more this football will be spiked right in their faces.

This is as presumptious as the you must draft defense argument.

Ultimately it all works together. You can't run the ball without playing solid defense.
No running team in the modern era has won withOUT a good defense.

Zeke looks like a complete super stud in every way.
Don't think anyone in Dallas regrets us taking him right now.
But that could change quickly.

End of the day philosophically I would NEVER draft a RB that high.
Same as with a Kicker, TE, Punter, or Guard.
I believe in positional value because the cap details positional bias.

All that said, Dallas has often bucked tradition and in this case it may be a perfect storm that succeeds beautifully.

Zeke is special. That is obvious. Can he remain so long-term at a position not known for that? I just don't know yet.
 

aikemirv

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Me.
Still.

Ultimately Zeke has looked the part of a true anomaly and he may be the guy to lead us to a Super Bowl.
If he does that then of course he was a great pick....
BUT... he is still a RB and he could get dinged anytime and he could decline seriously if dinged.

Put this another way.
If there was a re-draft tomorrow.

Would Zeke go before 4?
I don't think so.

I believe he might even go 5th.

Because Dak and Wentz absolutely go before him.
Joey Bosa probably as well.
So the possible 4th person to beat him out is top overall pick and QB, Jared Goff.
Goff has done zero but he was and likely still is a franchise QB prospect.
So it's possible Zeke could be the top rookie and a real MVP candidate but still FALL one spot in an NFL re-draft.

I am hoping for nothing but greatness form Zeke.
Love watching him play.
But in a GM hat I'd NEVER draft a running back top 5 for any reason, ever.

If Zeke wins a couple playoff games he will basically be matching the career successes of Peterson and Tomlinson.
RB is a hard position to win from.
But Dallas is absolutely is doing it right now and it is a joy to watch.


Honestly without Zeke, I don't think Dak would be in the first round. Dak has done well but if not for Zeke, the blitzing you saw last night from Philly would have been in place all season by everybody. Instead of teams moving up for Goff and Wentz, I think teams may be trying to move in front of us to take Zeke.

Zeke strikes fear in every D he faces since week 3, and he will for the rest of the year. I think the Defensive moto from here on out will be to stop Zeke and make Dak beat them. I don't mean to take anything from Dak because he has done a good job, but Zeke is helping Dak, not the other way around.
 

bsbellomy

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It was an easy choice in the 2016 draft because the other options were not great.

There are years where it might not have been the best pick. If there was an obvious super star at DE then it would be different.

Also, it was always going to be good short term. The problem is that it costs a lot more to get a DE (and other positions); therefore, you get less cap wise for your pick with a RB. Consider how Murray's contract was considered big at about 7M per. It would have been 17M if he was a top DL; therefore (in 2015 money) a top RB was worth about 10M less than a top DL.

In other words you get a (in 2015 dollars) 7M per x 5 years player with your pick vs a 17M per x 5 year player.

Again the top DE was not there and the top CB had way too many question marks in the 2016 draft so it's not really an issue.

I understand your logic, but if the RB translates into a main component on a SB winning team, then all that goes out the window. He's good enough that the normal conventions of the position do not apply when discussing his value.
 

CVN68_Cowboys

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This is as presumptious as the you must draft defense argument.

Ultimately it all works together. You can't run the ball without playing solid defense.
No running team in the modern era has won withOUT a good defense.

Zeke looks like a complete super stud in every way.
Don't think anyone in Dallas regrets us taking him right now.
But that could change quickly.

End of the day philosophically I would NEVER draft a RB that high.
Same as with a Kicker, TE, Punter, or Guard.
I believe in positional value because the cap details positional bias.

All that said, Dallas has often bucked tradition and in this case it may be a perfect storm that succeeds beautifully.

Zeke is special. That is obvious. Can he remain so long-term at a position not known for that? I just don't know yet.

The Cowboys are not a "running" team. They are a balanced team. Would you say the #19 ranked defense is a "good" defense? Because the Pats won a SB with the #19 defense. The NFL is an offensive league. This isn't the 1970s anymore. I'll just continue to watch our stud RB and laugh at the people repeating worn out cliches that have already been proven wrong.
 

jterrell

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Honestly without Zeke, I don't think Dak would be in the first round. Dak has done well but if not for Zeke, the blitzing you saw last night from Philly would have been in place all season by everybody. Instead of teams moving up for Goff and Wentz, I think teams may be trying to move in front of us to take Zeke.

Zeke strikes fear in every D he faces since week 3, and he will for the rest of the year. I think the Defensive moto from here on out will be to stop Zeke and make Dak beat them. I don't mean to take anything from Dak because he has done a good job, but Zeke is helping Dak, not the other way around.

Game winning drive.
rushing yards: 19 yards on 7 attempts.
passing yards: 56 yards and a TD.
  • 1st and 10 at DAL 25
    (15:00 - OT) E.Elliott right tackle to DAL 29 for 4 yards (L.McKelvin; F.Cox)

  • 2nd and 6 at DAL 29
    (14:22 - OT) (No Huddle, Shotgun) D.Prescott pass short left to T.Williams to DAL 39 for 10 yards (N.Carroll)

  • 1st and 10 at DAL 39
    (13:46 - OT) (Shotgun) D.Prescott pass deep right to C.Beasley to PHI 37 for 24 yards (J.Mills)

  • 1st and 10 at PHI 37
    (13:03 - OT) E.Elliott up the middle to PHI 35 for 2 yards (J.Hicks)

  • 2nd and 8 at PHI 35
    (12:25 - OT) (No Huddle, Shotgun) D.Prescott pass short right to C.Beasley to PHI 28 for 7 yards (N.Bradham)

  • 3rd and 1 at PHI 28
    (11:40 - OT) E.Elliott left tackle to PHI 28 for no gain (B.Graham; N.Bradham)

  • (10:59 - OT) Timeout #1 by DAL at 10:59.

  • 4th and 1 at PHI 28
    (10:59 - OT) D.Prescott up the middle to PHI 26 for 2 yards (F.Cox; B.Graham)

  • 1st and 10 at PHI 26
    (10:19 - OT) E.Elliott up the middle to PHI 14 for 12 yards (M.Jenkins)

  • 1st and 10 at PHI 14
    (9:38 - OT) (Shotgun) E.Elliott up the middle to PHI 14 for no gain (B.Graham; N.Bradham)

  • 2nd and 10 at PHI 14
    (9:04 - OT) (Shotgun) D.Prescott pass short left to E.Elliott pushed ob at PHI 4 for 10 yards (J.Mills)

  • 1st and Goal at PHI 4
    (9:04 - OT) (Shotgun) D.Prescott up the middle to PHI 5 for -1 yards (M.Jenkins; N.Bradham)

  • 2nd and Goal at PHI 5
    (7:48 - OT) Jason Witten 5 Yd pass from Dak Prescott
 

jterrell

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The Cowboys are not a "running" team. They are a balanced team. Would you say the #19 ranked defense is a "good" defense? Because the Pats won a SB with the #19 defense. The NFL is an offensive league. This isn't the 1970s anymore. I'll just continue to watch our stud RB and laugh at the people repeating worn out cliches that have already been proven wrong.
The Pats won with a top 5 of all-time QB.
Please try to keep up.
 

jterrell

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Honestly without Zeke, I don't think Dak would be in the first round. Dak has done well but if not for Zeke, the blitzing you saw last night from Philly would have been in place all season by everybody. Instead of teams moving up for Goff and Wentz, I think teams may be trying to move in front of us to take Zeke.

Zeke strikes fear in every D he faces since week 3, and he will for the rest of the year. I think the Defensive moto from here on out will be to stop Zeke and make Dak beat them. I don't mean to take anything from Dak because he has done a good job, but Zeke is helping Dak, not the other way around.

4th and 1 with game on the line and you run DAK, get 1st.
You are underestimating Dak man.
 

Rogerthat12

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I understand your logic, but if the RB translates into a main component on a SB winning team, then all that goes out the window. He's good enough that the normal conventions of the position do not apply when discussing his value.

You are correct on your last point and draft 101 that you can learn from Brugler and most respected evaluators is that positional value does not matter in the top 5 and with respect to elite talent/prospects.

This particular draft was different as Xwalker argues because some of the top 5 prospects at need positions in this draft were not superior to the RB talent in the top 5, in terms of talent and fit for this particular team and with respect to this particular draft.
 

aikemirv

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Game winning drive.
rushing yards: 19 yards on 7 attempts.
passing yards: 56 yards and a TD.
  • 1st and 10 at DAL 25
    (15:00 - OT) E.Elliott right tackle to DAL 29 for 4 yards (L.McKelvin; F.Cox)

  • 2nd and 6 at DAL 29
    (14:22 - OT) (No Huddle, Shotgun) D.Prescott pass short left to T.Williams to DAL 39 for 10 yards (N.Carroll)

  • 1st and 10 at DAL 39
    (13:46 - OT) (Shotgun) D.Prescott pass deep right to C.Beasley to PHI 37 for 24 yards (J.Mills)

  • 1st and 10 at PHI 37
    (13:03 - OT) E.Elliott up the middle to PHI 35 for 2 yards (J.Hicks)

  • 2nd and 8 at PHI 35
    (12:25 - OT) (No Huddle, Shotgun) D.Prescott pass short right to C.Beasley to PHI 28 for 7 yards (N.Bradham)

  • 3rd and 1 at PHI 28
    (11:40 - OT) E.Elliott left tackle to PHI 28 for no gain (B.Graham; N.Bradham)

  • (10:59 - OT) Timeout #1 by DAL at 10:59.

  • 4th and 1 at PHI 28
    (10:59 - OT) D.Prescott up the middle to PHI 26 for 2 yards (F.Cox; B.Graham)

  • 1st and 10 at PHI 26
    (10:19 - OT) E.Elliott up the middle to PHI 14 for 12 yards (M.Jenkins)

  • 1st and 10 at PHI 14
    (9:38 - OT) (Shotgun) E.Elliott up the middle to PHI 14 for no gain (B.Graham; N.Bradham)

  • 2nd and 10 at PHI 14
    (9:04 - OT) (Shotgun) D.Prescott pass short left to E.Elliott pushed ob at PHI 4 for 10 yards (J.Mills)

  • 1st and Goal at PHI 4
    (9:04 - OT) (Shotgun) D.Prescott up the middle to PHI 5 for -1 yards (M.Jenkins; N.Bradham)

  • 2nd and Goal at PHI 5
    (7:48 - OT) Jason Witten 5 Yd pass from Dak Prescott

So 42 of 75 yards for Elliot right - all catches were behind the line of scrimmage.
 
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