Why are the Watkins Fans So Afraid of Bringing in Competition?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Or, lable this thread as agenda driven and move on. You know, which ever you feel more at ease with.

I have a viewpoint on this topic so if that makes me have an agenda then I guess I am guilty as charged. At least I try to back my 'agenda' up.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Competition is good but drafting a FS in the first round pretty much ensures there won't be a competition. I would be all for bringing in someone to push Watkins but not at the price of a 1st round pick.

Exactly.

I agree.

 

[superpunk]

Afraid has nothing to do with but the fact is if your going out and taking a FS with your 1st pick in the draft then your not looking to bring in competition you have already made up you mind. If by some chance Dallas did take a FS with the 1st I would fully expect him to get every chance you can give because of the commitment you’re making with a 1st rd draft choice.

That was all certainly true of Carpenter last year, who came in and started from day 1.

 

[InmanRoshi]

I don't want competition for Watkins, I want an upgrade.

Although, Watkins should improve. Instead of singlehandedly allowing the Eagles three touchdowns a game off of big plays, he may improve to two.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

competition is all well and good if you're stacked across the board, we're not however, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and develop players w/ potential

You mean actually let guys develop?

Son-of-a-*****!

What sort of convoluted thinking is that?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

So now we need to trade down if we can if its a safety rather than go BPA. I love this. Why dont we jsut put him in the ring of honor now and get it over with.

Geez I wish you would hold off on the anger a little!

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Is it just me or is Fuzzy arguing with no one? He doesn't appear to be replying to anyone in particular and I don't recall anyone stating the points that he is arguing.

Fuzzy has issues...


He's full of hate.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I don't want competition for Watkins, I want an upgrade.

Although, Watkins should improve. Instead of singlehandedly allowing the Eagles three touchdowns a game off of big plays, he may improve to two.

And what did he allow the second half of his first season AFTER he replaced Davis?

Please "Zone Scribe" list the BIG PLAYS Watkins gave up?

I keep hearing how much of a schmuck Watkins was but the fact is that he had one miserable game early in the year against the Eagles and played pretty darned well after he took a seat for a few games.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fuzzy has issues...


He's full of hate.

Youre not getting a hug no matter how hard you try.

 

[smarta5150]

I can understand liking the kid. After wathing highlights from TC las season i was waiting for the guy to step up and seize that spot and never look back. He never did and midseason we are signing retreads to try and shore up the spot.

He came back and played average I suppose for what would want from a FS and still so many here bristle at the idea of drafting Nelson, Landry or Merriweather or signing the like of Grant or Babineaux.

What on earth makes anyone think that Watkins at FS is in any way a sure thing and how in any way shape or form is competition a bad thing?

I look at our roster and outside of free safety where its Watkins and a prayer the only other spot where we are thinner is guard where its Proctor and a prayer which makes me want to puke.

Handing Watkins the FS job and not bringing in competition if for no other than reason that one of them will be the backup is about the worst move we can make outside of starting Proctor.

Competition would be ok.

But the thing is people are talking about using our FIRST round draft pick on a FS.

So say we did this... Nelson (or whoever) and Watkins compete... Watkins wins the starting position out right.

Now we have a 22nd overall pick as a backup FS.

Wonderful. Way to waste a 1st round pick.

If we did sign a FA, and only IF the price is right, in order to compete for Watkins then I guess it wouldnt be that bad of an idea.

I wouldnt really like the idea either, just its a better option than drafting a FS at 22.

You ask the guys who are backing Watkins for prove or evidence why we should be confident and comfortabe letting Watkins start... but let me ask you this, why are the Nelson and Landry fans so confident that either one of these guys can be our answer? They are un-proven at the NFL level and have a better chance of going through growing pains/adjusting to the speed of the game than coming in and locking NFL receivers down.


This reminds me of people jumping all over Carp throughout the past season for not earning a spot and getting more time.

He finally got his shot at more playing time and now all the haters are lovers.


The bottom line, and underlining message is that Watkins (amongst others like Carp) are only rookies becoming sophomores, and sophomores become 3rd year players (Canty, Spears).

The NFL is a competive league and involves getting used to, learning systems, and getting stronger, faster and at the same time becoming (football) smarter.

Tom Landry believed in the 3 year rule, correct? You think being on a Dallas Cwoboy FAN forum more people would buy into this philosophy and give our young guys more than a half of season to prove themselves.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You mean actually let guys develop?

Son-of-a-*****!

What sort of convoluted thinking is that?

Yeah he developed all the way from worst FS in the league to mediocre. Why on Earth would we want to get something a bit more sure?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Youre not getting a hug no matter how hard you try.

I guess I can cross the butt-squeeze off my list to then huh?

 

[TEK2000]

Yeah Im not having dialogue with anyone here.....

Point is that people will reject BPA to make sure Watkins spot is safe because he has all the measurable, 40 times blah blah. The point I am trying to make is tha safety is one of our most tenuous positions in terms of talent overall and this coddling makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense to those that are of the belief that Watkins will be a viable player for us. You can't have 1st rounders/top paid players at EVERY position and FS happens to be a position that NFL teams generally do not spend a ton of money or 1st round draft picks on.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with having competition at various positions and I seriously doubt you'd find someone that DOESN'T want position competition. Likes its already been said MANY times in this thread, you don't draft a player in the 1st round believing that he'll provide "competition" for the starting spot... 1st round draft picks are EXPECTED to be starters almost immediately and, these days, the fans throw a fit if they don't have IMMEDIATE impacts.

You're ridiculing everyone that doesn't think we should use our 1st round pick or spend big money in FA for a FS and acting like we're saying we have to "coddle" our young players when nothing of the sort has been said.

You don't give up on a rookie after his rookie season. If we draft another rookie FS... we'll be dealing with rookie mistakes again this season.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Competition would be ok.

But the thing is people are talking about using our FIRST round draft pick on a FS.

So say we did this... Nelson (or whoever) and Watkins compete... Watkins wins the starting position out right.

Now we have a 22nd overall pick as a backup FS.

Wonderful. Way to waste a 1st round pick.

If we did sign a FA, and only IF the price is right, in order to compete for Watkins then I guess it wouldnt be that bad of an idea.

I wouldnt really like the idea either, just its a better option than drafting a FS at 22.

You ask the guys who are backing Watkins for prove or evidence why we should be confident and comfortabe letting Watkins start... but let me ask you this, why are the Nelson and Landry fans so confident that either one of these guys can be our answer? They are un-proven at the NFL level and have a better chance of going through growing pains/adjusting to the speed of the game than coming in and locking NFL receivers down.


This reminds me of people jumping all over Carp throughout the past season for not earning a spot and getting more time.

He finally got his shot at more playing time and now all the haters are lovers.


The bottom line, and underlining message is that Watkins (amongst others like Carp) are only rookies becoming sophomores, and sophomores become 3rd year players (Canty, Spears).

The NFL is a competive league and involves getting used to, learning systems, and getting stronger, faster and at the same time becoming (football) smarter.

Tom Landry believed in the 3 year rule, correct? You think being on a Dallas Cwoboy FAN forum more people would buy into this philosophy and give our young guys more than a half of season to prove themselves.

Our 22nd pick is probably going to sit at any position we draft. WR OT C RB TE CB DE DT OLB ILB.

I mean you might as well throw OG in there as well if we sign someone so why is it a necessity to not give a 5th rounder a first rounder to compete with?

 

[smarta5150]

Our 22nd pick is probably going to sit at any position we draft. WR OT C RB TE CB DE DT OLB ILB.

I mean you might as well throw OG in there as well if we sign someone so why is it a necessity to not give a 5th rounder a first rounder to compete with?

So what if Watkins beats out a 1st round pick?

We waste the 22nd pick and we eat it... thats it?

 

[TEK2000]

And what did he allow the second half of his first season AFTER he replaced Davis?

Please "Zone Scribe" list the BIG PLAYS Watkins gave up?

I keep hearing how much of a schmuck Watkins was but the fact is that he had one miserable game early in the year against the Eagles and played pretty darned well after he took a seat for a few games.

I can only recall a total of 4 or 5 plays all season where Watkins gave up huge plays. 3 vs Eagles game 1 and the Buress TD vs Giants game 1

Everyone also needs to keep in mind that no other FS we played last season was forced to play Centerfield ALL ALONE. We sure as heck didn't leave Davis back there all alone.

 

[smarta5150]

I can only recall a total of 4 or 5 plays all season where Watkins gave up huge plays. 3 vs Eagles game 1 and the Buress TD vs Giants game 1

Everyone also needs to keep in mind that no other FS we played last season was forced to play Centerfield ALL ALONE. We sure as heck didn't leave Davis back there all alone.

I am glad you and others are also defending Watkins... I began to think I was the only one.

 

[zeromaster]

So according to your decision calculus you have to spend the first round pick where you wont force an existing or developing player out so lets look at the other positions.

QB: Romo starts a first on a QB is completely out of the question as it might push Romo out.

RB: Jones and Barber, again the same thing.

FB: Well Hoyte certainly performed better than Watkins at their relative positions so this is out.

OT: Adams, Columbo, McQuistan, well we wouldnt want to hider Pats development much less Columbos so this is out of the question.

OG: Kosier and Proctor: Well I guess you could justify the pick on a guard as Proctor is inferior but if we sign one of Steinbach Dielman or Dockery then this position goes by the wayside.

C: Gurode, well nope cant do that either.

WR: well this is our deepest position and with the ytoung guys in the wings we dont want to hinder their progression.

DE: Canty, Hatcher, Spears: noep for all the same reasons. Dont want to hinder them.

DT: Fergy, I guess since he is old the Watkins fan club will allow this.

OLB: Ware and Carp no way we can allow them to be displaced as ive been told its not a good investment

ILB: Ayodele and James; Ayodele is a good player so hes got to be protected and James played about as well as Watkins did so no there.

CB: Newman and Henry, well i guess the WFC will allow Henry to be displaced because hes not a rookie.

S: Williams and Watkins; nope becauese Roy is a probowler and Watkins needs to be allowed to develop.

K: the Watkins Fan Club will allow this because itd be a investment that would only push Martin if he is resigned.

So as it stands right now we can only use our first on a OG, CB, DT or K all other positions need to be coddled or will be a bad investment.

You've already convinced yourself Watkins is worthless; the number of rebuttals you've put up seems to confirm that. You also seem to be on the secondary side of the secondary vs. DL argument: fix the secondary, not the DL. This in the face of years of footage that show even the best DBs get beat when the QB is given lots of time because of little to no pressure. Also look at the money already invested in the DBs; and you want to throw an inexperienced college player (albeit highly regarded, at least to you) into the mix as the savior?

You also seem to feel the 1st round pick is something that is not that different from a 2nd or 3rd round pick, that money is secondary to the position of need. You also seem to be assuming we can get an impact safety in the draft at 22, or worse, that there's little wrong with trading up to get one. 1st-rounders should be impact players: it's basically saying the team has NO ONE at that position worth keeping.

Quite a train of thought there. We'll just have to see how it plays out. Now assuming Jones does what you want on draft day, and the new guy is no improvement over Watkins by the first quarter of the season, will you throw him under the bus after a few games? Or will you be making the same arguments for letting your guy play that the Watkins supporters do now?

Only time will tell.

 

[InmanRoshi]

And what did he allow the second half of his first season AFTER he replaced Davis?

Please "Zone Scribe" list the BIG PLAYS Watkins gave up?

I keep hearing how much of a schmuck Watkins was but the fact is that he had one miserable game early in the year against the Eagles and played pretty darned well after he took a seat for a few games.

Replaced Davis the second half of the season? Watkins was benched midway into the season. Then he went back into the starting lineup the final three games of the season, more due to how bad Keith Davis is ... which speaks volumes that Watkins couldn't keep him off the bench. In those final three games with Watkins back in the lineup the Dallas defense surrendered 28, 23 and 39 points. Quite a difference maker.

What other big plays did he give up? How about the first drive of the Monday Night game to the Giants where he just stood there slack jawed and dumbfounded looking up as Plaxico Burress caught a pass right next to him in the endzone? Does a 50 yard pass qualify as a big play?

Sorry, he was the same player I saw in college .. physically gifted, but tentative with no natural feel for the game. I never drank the training camp Kool Aid that he was the first person in the history of the draft to fall for being "too big". If we can get him to be a nickel safety, great. Nothing wrong with getting a role player and special teams performer for a second day pick. But, as a starter, I have more faith in Miles Austin, Cory Proctor or Pat McQuinstan becoming solutions to their positions than Watkins.

 

[smarta5150]

Replaced Davis the second half of the season? Watkins was benched midway into the season. Then he went back into the starting lineup the final three games of the season, more due to how bad Keith Davis is ... which speaks volumes that Watkins couldn't keep him off the bench. In those final three games with Watkins back in the lineup the Dallas defense surrendered 28, 23 and 39 points. Quite a difference maker.

What other big plays did he give up? How about the first drive of the Monday Night game to the Giants where he just stood there slack jawed and dumbfounded looking up as Plaxico Burress caught a 50 yard TD pass right net to him in the endzone.

Sorry, he was the same player I saw in college .. physically gifted, but tentative with no natural feel for the game. I never drank the Kool Aid that he fell in the draft because he was the first person in the history of the NFL to be "too big". If we can get him to be a nickel safety, great. Nothing wrong with getting a role player for a 5th round pick.

Wow... did you forget RW falling over the ref?

With you and others beliefs we need to find replacements for all porsitions.

Remember that 1 time Tony Romo threw an INT? Remember when RW was burnt? How about Newman and Henry? And that JJ fumble? How about those drops TO had? And the Terry Glenn drop against the Giants that was picked off? Miles fumbled once too... and all those missed blocks and penalties by our oline.

Man, we need a lot of new players.