Why is Dak refusing to give the cowboys a discount? Mahomes did!

[G2]

True. However, we do know, due to multiple examples, that paying huge contracts definitely keeps you from getting the players needed to get you over the top.

I would be more concerned with what the front office fails to do. There are other contracts that are completely bloated and the players are producing. You pay the ones that do. Simple as that. All solid QBs have large contracts. Go over some of the other players on the team that aren't living up to it.
Case in point, Prescott didn't draw from the cap hardly at all for 4 years, but now we shouldn't extend him because all of a sudden the front office is competent? I don't think that's reasonable.

 

[G2]

Very true.

The real problem has been very poor drafting in certain areas and a screwball blueprint. And some very very odd draft picks that just never made sense.

We seem to have a problem with interior defensive line and linebackers. We don't draft early safeties well either. When we actually do draft them they're injury prone and just fail.

 

[kskboys]

I would be more concerned with what the front office fails to do. There are other contracts that are completely bloated and the players are producing. You pay the ones that do. Simple as that. All solid QBs have large contracts. Go over some of the other players on the team that aren't living up to it.
Case in point, Prescott didn't draw from the cap hardly at all for 4 years, but now we shouldn't extend him because all of a sudden the front office is competent? I don't think that's reasonable.

Also true, but irrelevant.

Dak should be paid. However, giving him a huge contract makes sure that we will never get better. Paying him 40 mil/season makes zero sense.

 

[kskboys]

We seem to have a problem with interior defensive line and linebackers. We don't draft early safeties well either. When we actually do draft them they're injury prone and just fail.

In general, we do not comprehend drafting D.

 

[Flamma]

I agree Rodgers is better, but I don't think the margin is as big as some suggest. You have to factor in how well the franchises are at building teams around a QB. Dallas is awful specifically on defense. Green Bay had a very balanced team and has been more consistent.

It still comes down to numbers. If you pay both QBs similarly the Cowboys have to do better at everything else or just get lucky. If you have a quarterback clearly inferior to your opponents, you have to have a means to make up for that. Even when you do it's still hard to win. The Chiefs are in lala land right now. They might win 3 in a row. Mahomes new extension doesn't start until 2022. That's also when the big cap hits go into effect and they'll have to shed talent. A lot of it.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The reason Jerry hasn't given Dak what he wants isn't because he cant afford it the reason is the salary cap. Why do you think Dak hasn't been signed yet? Jerry has no problem overpaying players so it seams that Dak is asking for too much money even for Jerry. The salary cap matters. You don't go a free agent shopping spree, but it is important to use free agents for pieces for the team. You tell be how giving Dak the big contract is going to help them build a defense? Seattle hasn't been able to get back to they were before they gave Wilson his contract. And Wilson is better than Dak.

I think Jerry knows he needs Dak, that's why he was insistant on signing him to a 5 year deal as opposed to a 4 year deal Dak wanted. Jerry got too smart for his own good and played hard ball when he shouldn't have....why hand Jaylon a large contract when not necessary....he let his friendship and business get in the way of his judgement. why give Zeke the largest RB contract when he had two years left and he could get a RB in draft, but he played fantasy football in his mind. he knew his ammunition with Dak was the franchise tag and he used it. he knows he can do that one more time. just giving himself more time to sit at the table to negotiate again.

Dak is not asking for too much. Dak is a top 10 QB. the NFL market sets the value of a top 10 QB. by all accounts, that's where the negotiations are.....I think Jerry made a mistake...the thinking was to have Dak under contract for a 5th year, in 2023 when salary cap goes up significantly and salaries go up significantly. so at that point, he would have a bargain. instead he could have just signed the 4 year deal and reserve the franchise tag for that 5th year that would have been based on previous contracts and not 2023 salaries.....and it would have amounted to the same thing. now, he cornered himself. and Dak's injury was the best thing that could have happened to Dak. Jerry now clearly sees his value to the team.

and you tell me how giving Dak a contract is going to stop us from building a defense? are you suggesting to go on a FA shopping spree? you complain about Dak as a FA and over paying, yet you think these other FAs, not dallas related are going to give the "home town" discount everyone is asking for? would you not complain about over paying these other FA? Clowney wanted 20M a year...he settled for 16M. that's over paying for lack of production. the problem hasn't been signing mid level or high end FAs....we signed Jaylon, Lawrence and were able to sign Poe, McCoy, Griffin and Worley....the problem is Lawrence and Jaylon aren't playing to the level of their contract...two of the largest for their position in the league. and we happened to sign the wrong FA at mid level where other teams tend to find the right ones, for the same price...

so tell me again, how signing Dak is going to stop you from building a defense and why?

 

[G2]

It still comes down to numbers. If you pay both QBs similarly the Cowboys have to do better at everything else or just get lucky. If you have a quarterback clearly inferior to your opponents, you have to have a means to make up for that. Even when you do it's still hard to win. The Chiefs are in lala land right now. They might win 3 in a row. Mahomes new extension doesn't start until 2022. That's also when the big cap hits go into effect and they'll have to shed talent. A lot of it.

What was the excuse the 4 years he was on a rookie contract that didn't even total 5 million?

 

[CouchCoach]

The short answer to the OP's question after 17 pages is because he doesn't have to give a discount.

He and his agent know some team will pay him what he wants or in this case give him the length of the contract he wants. He was dealing with the only morons that made this over a 5 year v 4 year deal with them actually thinking about the future for the first time in 30 years.

 

[Flamma]

The guys who get top contracts are not getting there, and are being knocked out of the playoffs every year due to weaknesses, weaknesses that could possibly be filled w/ an extra 5 mil.

Well, if Brees, Rodgers, and Brady exit the scene, then we have a shot with a paid Dak. As long as no other team builds talent around a low paid QB.

 

[kskboys]

Well, if Brees, Rodgers, and Brady exit the scene, then we have a shot with a paid Dak. As long as no other team builds talent around a low paid QB.

Yeah, w/ Herbert and Burrow and Lawrence coming up, highly doubtful Dak will be in the super bowl pic if we pay him 40 mil.

 

[G2]

The short answer to the OP's question after 17 pages is because he doesn't have to give a discount.

He and his agent know some team will pay him what he wants or in this case give him the length of the contract he wants. He was dealing with the only morons that made this over a 5 year v 4 year deal with them actually thinking about the future for the first time in 30 years.

I agree, it might not be Dallas that signs him. I always thought it was unlikely he leaves, but current events have made me question that.
Also, the longer they wait, year after year, the higher the price will be.

 

[CouchCoach]

Yeah, w/ Herbert and Burrow and Lawrence coming up, highly doubtful Dak will be in the super bowl pic if we pay him 40 mil.

But I don't think that's because of paying him 40M because Allen, Jackson, Mayfield and Murray will get that. It is not what they pay the QB, it's who is building the team around that QB, that is the entire problem. They had the best thing going for his first 4 years and what did they accomplish?

They have made 0 progress with this defense, absolutely 0. It is the glaring problem and it's actually gotten worse. Paying the QB 40M should be the least of our worries as fans.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

He's not Wilson, Rodgers, Mahomes. Pay Dak similar to them and the Cowboys are at a disadvantage at the coin flip. In order for Dak to overcome the better QBs he's going to need a better team around him. Like Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Jim Plunket, or even Jeff Hostetler. Those are quarterbacks that succeeded against better quarterbacks because their team was better around them. With the salary cap that doesn't happen anymore when you pay a good quarterback the same as an elite quarterback. Because both teams are very similar except for the quarterback. If the bar is set to just make the playoffs and crap the bed, then pay Stats Prescott market value. That's exactly what you'll get. No way in hell do the Cowboys win a SB with Dak paid at market value.

he is top 10. I don't say that. NFL evaluators of 32 teams say that. and why are we at a disadvantage if we pay Dak? and those QBs had better teams around them because they drafted better. Dilfer had Reed, Lewis and few others on the defense and all time best defense and were all drafted by their team. Hostetler had a team around him that was drafted. and he played when there was no cap. same with Plunket....so comparing today's NFL to those of Plunket and Hostetler is totally irrelevant to the discussion.

Ravens, Giants, SF, didn't build through FA. they build through draft.....draft better and all the problems go away. we just don't draft well defensively. so how many truly impactful players have we drafted in the past 15 years? there have been 44 picks.

 

[CouchCoach]

I agree, it might not be Dallas that signs him. I always thought it was unlikely he leaves, but current events have made me question that.
Also, the longer they wait, year after year, the higher the price will be.

I do think they sign him because they really have no other option.

But the biggest problem here is they will think this is all about the QB's deal, it's not. It's the DE, LB, WR and RB deals. That's the difference between teams that will pay the QB 40M and there will be at least 5 very soon, and this team, the other teams are better with the other contacts.

It's been 25 years and Booger& Son are not one bit better at their jobs. THAT is the real problem.

 

[gjkoeppen]

It's really this simple. If Dak is taking up roughly the same amount of cap space as Aaron Rodgers, then both the Green Bay Packers and Cowboys have the same amount of money for the rest of the team. Dallas is at a disadvantage because Rodgers is much better than Dak. Dallas needs luck for the Cowboys to overcome that advantage. It's really no more complicated than that. Dak and the Cowboys couldn't even beat them with Dak on a rookie deal. Going to beat them with Dak at 35-40 million? Never going to happen. But at least the Cowboys gave it a good try and made the playoffs. If that's the bar you want to set, fine. Have at it.

Prescott has never had the complete teams as Super Bowl winning teams have had. In 2016 and 2018 he had the offense but he didn't have the defense or special teams. Every year there are teams that have complete teams and what it takes to get to the Super Bowl, But only one team wins. Prescott even on his rookie contract didn't. have that Also normally the Super Bowl winning teams are lucky enough not to get riddled with injuries of key players. One thing is true that there's only been one team to win the Super Bowl with a average or below average QB but had the #1 defense that set NFL records, the ravens and Dilfer, but that's what those that don't want to keep Prescott want to do is think they can win a Super Bowl with just any QB they can pickup even though they don't have the rest of the team needed to do it. These same people don't realize that the Cowboys will have about a 25 mil carryover from 2020 that will go a long way towards what it will cost for Prescott even on a smaller cap.
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[kskboys]

Prescott has never had the complete teams as Super Bowl winning teams have had. In 2016 and 2018 he had the offense but he didn't have the defense or special teams. Every year there are teams that have complete teams and what it takes to get to the Super Bowl, But only one team wins. Prescott even on his rookie contract didn't. have that Also normally the Super Bowl winning teams are lucky enough not to get riddled with injuries of key players. One thing is true that there's only been one team to win the Super Bowl with a average or below average QB but had the #1 defense that set NFL records, the ravens and Dilfer, but that's what those that don't want to keep Prescott want to do is think they can win a Super Bowl with just any QB they can pickup even though they don't have the rest of the team needed to do it. These same people don't realize that the Cowboys will have about a 25 mil carryover from 2020 that will go a long way towards what it will cost for Prescott even on a smaller cap.
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Lots more than one.

Foles
Doug Williams
Brad Johnson
Joe Flacco
Plunkett
Eli Manning
Mark Rypien
Jeff Hostetler

 

[kskboys]

But I don't think that's because of paying him 40M because Allen, Jackson, Mayfield and Murray will get that. It is not what they pay the QB, it's who is building the team around that QB, that is the entire problem. They had the best thing going for his first 4 years and what did they accomplish?

They have made 0 progress with this defense, absolutely 0. It is the glaring problem and it's actually gotten worse. Paying the QB 40M should be the least of our worries as fans.

It will partially be that, as evidenced by the huge contracts of Flacco, Brees, Wilson, Goff, etc..

 

[Steve007]

I think Jerry knows he needs Dak, that's why he was insistant on signing him to a 5 year deal as opposed to a 4 year deal Dak wanted. Jerry got too smart for his own good and played hard ball when he shouldn't have....why hand Jaylon a large contract when not necessary....he let his friendship and business get in the way of his judgement. why give Zeke the largest RB contract when he had two years left and he could get a RB in draft, but he played fantasy football in his mind. he knew his ammunition with Dak was the franchise tag and he used it. he knows he can do that one more time. just giving himself more time to sit at the table to negotiate again.

Dak is not asking for too much. Dak is a top 10 QB. the NFL market sets the value of a top 10 QB. by all accounts, that's where the negotiations are.....I think Jerry made a mistake...the thinking was to have Dak under contract for a 5th year, in 2023 when salary cap goes up significantly and salaries go up significantly. so at that point, he would have a bargain. instead he could have just signed the 4 year deal and reserve the franchise tag for that 5th year that would have been based on previous contracts and not 2023 salaries.....and it would have amounted to the same thing. now, he cornered himself. and Dak's injury was the best thing that could have happened to Dak. Jerry now clearly sees his value to the team.

and you tell me how giving Dak a contract is going to stop us from building a defense? are you suggesting to go on a FA shopping spree? you complain about Dak as a FA and over paying, yet you think these other FAs, not dallas related are going to give the "home town" discount everyone is asking for? would you not complain about over paying these other FA? Clowney wanted 20M a year...he settled for 16M. that's over paying for lack of production. the problem hasn't been signing mid level or high end FAs....we signed Jaylon, Lawrence and were able to sign Poe, McCoy, Griffin and Worley....the problem is Lawrence and Jaylon aren't playing to the level of their contract...two of the largest for their position in the league. and we happened to sign the wrong FA at mid level where other teams tend to find the right ones, for the same price...

so tell me again, how signing Dak is going to stop you from building a defense and why?

The reason Jerry wanted a 5 year deal was to move the cap money. It's about the cap. Dont use past mistakes to justify paying Dak too much. So you think the Cowboys don't need free agents? They are going to go 100% draft? That would be a rebuild. If the they sign him to 40 million you will see this team average at best. How has Seattle done after the Wilson contract? And Wilson is better than Dak. You cant pay an average quarterback elite money and win a championship.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Lots more than one.

Foles
Doug Williams
Brad Johnson
Joe Flacco
Plunkett
Eli Manning
Mark Rypien
Jeff Hostetler

All of those QB's were better than Dilfer. Dilfer is the ONLY QB that immediately after his team won the Super Bowl that didn't even get an offer to resign and was allowed to go in free agency.

Now Doug Williams was a Super Bowl MVP, Brad Johnson has a better career passer rating than Aikman, Joe Flacco was the Pepsi rookie of the year and a Super Bowl MVP, Jim Plucket was a Heisman Trophy winner, AFC rookie of the year, won 2 Super Bowls and was a Super Bowl MVP, Eli Manning won 2 Super Bowls and was TWICE a Super Bowl MVP, Jeff Hostetler won a super Bowl as did Dilfer but had a much better career than Dilfer.
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[gjkoeppen]

The reason Jerry wanted a 5 year deal was to move the cap money. It's about the cap. Dont use past mistakes to justify paying Dak too much. So you think the Cowboys don't need free agents? They are going to go 100% draft? That would be a rebuild. If the they sign him to 40 million you will see this team average at best. How has Seattle done after the Wilson contract? And Wilson is better than Dak. You cant pay an average quarterback elite money and win a championship.

It's only been the past year or two that the Cowboys finally got out of the he11 that started the day the cap system started. Over the years the Cowboys had VERY few years that they could go out and get a better free agent and even in those years they restructured contracts putting them further in cap he11. Through those years the Cowboys were forced to rely on the draft. That offensive line the Cowboys had in 2016 that many say was one of the best ever was built through the draft.

Yes Jones wanted that 5 year deal because then Prescott would have been locked after the new TV contracts were done allowing the Cowboys to get other help they may need at that time. Every team draft players and that doesn't mean they are rebuilding because they don't have cap room to sign free agents.
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