Why is Dak refusing to give the cowboys a discount? Mahomes did!

[LACowboysFan1]

Wait.. are you saying that if a receiver has to run to get to the ball it's not a good throw? Seriously dude?!?!?!
From 1977 to 1990 the Bucs went When a QB lifts a team that went a combined 35-127 without him and 33-33 with him. So while a .500 winning percentage might not impress anyone, consider their .213 winning percentage without him and you get the picture. They were all time HORRIBLE without him and made the playoffs three out of 5 years with him including a trip to the NFC Championship game. They were on the verge of becoming a true contender. They had built a borderline great defense and the offense was starting to click. Stuff like this is why you can't just look at numbers.. You have to watch the games because that is the only true way to see what a guy did for his team. Numbers are nice, but winning is more important. Sure it's great when you can get both.. but that's just not always possible. Especially the way the game was played back then. Williams seldom had huge passing numbers.. John McKay and Joe Gibbs (his two coaches) were never going to have QBs put up huge numbers on a regular basis. What he did have was a tremendous will to win and the ability to inspire and uplift his teammates. Tampa ownership screwed him by banishing him to the USFL. But they also screwed themselves for the next 15 years.. I don't know what kind of career Williams might have had if things worked out in Tampa. Maybe he never wins a Super Bowl with them.. but with that running game, those receivers and that defense and him at the helm I would have liked his chances.

Williams took a SB-winning team and followed that with a 4-6 and a 1-1 record.

Yeah that's the hallmark of a very good quarterback.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Doing a long rant post doesn't cover up the fact that you don't seem to understand this.

I guess your reading comprehension are limited. you are the new generation of twitter users who want everything in 150 characters...for you, I will try to limit the length given you lack concentration and comprehension..

here is your twit version

"it wasn't a rant. it was factual. presented numbers. laid out the issues and false logic of your thinking"

better? can you follow now? good boy

 

[LatinMind]

Selfishness
Greed
Stupidity

Mahomes didnt give the team any discount. He's just playing on his rookie deal. So his cap hits arent big right now. 2021 and 2022 are the final 2 yrs of his rookie deal, then accounts for 42mil in 2023

 

[Captain-Crash]

yeah, Mahomes isn't worth it said no one who watches him play. smh

 

[Rayman70]

its the Agent Todd Franz.

 

[Captain-Crash]

let me see, he gets beat by Garrett in throwing challenges and now Witten probably can outrun him. He shouldn't give anyone a discount. His best bet would take a long deal since he's so awesome now.

 

[RonnieT24]

Williams took a SB-winning team and followed that with a 4-6 and a 1-1 record.

Yeah that's the hallmark of a very good quarterback.

This is ludicrous logic. The game is 11 on 11 not 1 on 1. The decline of that Super Bowl team might have been owed more to the defense falling from 6th to 26th from year to year. Maybe if Williams had been able to line up at linebacker? Or how about the fact that the running game slipped from 7th to 25th. William's body was breaking down in those last couple of years in Washington and he couldn't carry them. QBs got hit in those days and couldn't play into their 40's. But it should not diminish how good guys were because the rule changes make it so easy for guys to put up stupid numbers now.

 

[visionary]

Mahomes didnt give the team any discount. He's just playing on his rookie deal. So his cap hits arent big right now. 2021 and 2022 are the final 2 yrs of his rookie deal, then accounts for 42mil in 2023

Mahomes took a long deal to give KC flexibility which your hero is not willing to do because he’s greedy

Mahomes won a SB and is in his second one now

Wake me up when Prescott even wins back to back playoff games let alone a SB

 

[Flamma]

exactly, patrick mahomes didn't give a home town discount, he got money two years early, before his contract ran out. having money today is worth heck of a lot more than 2 years from now...with that said his cap hit for 2021 is 24M, since now the new contract and money paid in bonuses counts against the cap. based on projected cap of 175M, then mahomes counts 14% of the cap, does it mean that their chances of winning a superbowl are lowered? in 2022 his cap hit is 32M, with a previously projected cap space of 220M, then his cap hit is 15% and I guess that guarantees that KC will not win the superbowl...its all the percentages...right? I guess at that point KC should just cut bait and let him go and sign a low priced street FA...

Patrick Mahomes Contract Breakdowns, Salary Cap Figures, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac

and to your point, people argue that a 40M average salary is unreasonable, using the same "math" of averages then Mahomes contract is 50M, which you just clearly said its not the money that counts against the cap this year.....so all this bruhaha of 40M cap per year, percentage of cap etc. is meaningless until we see the breakdown and cap hit per year...

and Rodgers signed a contract in 2018 that averaged 33.4M against the cap, which in 2018 was 177, and that made him about 19% of the cap...I guess GB should have just cut Rodgers....and in 2021 the actual cap hits (not averages), he will count about 21% of the cap. GB should just cut him now, there is no way he can make it to the superbowl....(he is older and they drafted a QB, so they may move on and rebuild).

and TV deals are coming. that's why all these QBs, players clamored to get their contracts done so by 2025 they are FAs and go after more money.....its just going to make salaries ridiculous for some players..specially QBs...I bet you Mahomes deal will get redone. guaranteed.

and bottom line, you over pay for FAs or certain players on your team, knowing/expecting the cap to go up. contracts get reworked. money gets pushed to future, make a run for a few years and give yourself a chance. Rodgers, Mahomes, Wilson, Watson give their teams the best chance to COMPETE. that's all you can ask for,

and I go back to my previous argument..... we have to draft better defensively. if we don't. we won't have a chance, even if the QB was making 500K a year, which for 4 years he did. and you can't build a defense through FA. you will over pay, and over pay for several players and you still won't have the type of team that will end up competing effectively....you will not be able to build a dominant defense that would be necessary to overcome the shortcomings of going cheap and low end at QB.

plus, I have argued, perhaps we shouldn't have resigned Martin.....no one wins a championship because they have the best dang Guard in the NFL....martin averages 14M per year. that was 7% of this year's salary cap. is it wise your RG takes up 7% of your salary cap? (his actual cap hit was 3.5%, but again playing the averages). his cap hit jumps to 17M in 2021....that's 10% of the cap.....do we want 10% of the cap to be dedicated to the RG!!! I don't see anyone complaining about that and wanting to get rid of Martin......In terms of impact, Guard is next to last on impact position to the offense (FB being last).....

I'm not one of the people that believed Mahomes contract was team friendly. I said as much in the thread. But considering his talent, any cap hit between 10-15% should be good with him at QB. Lets see how many he wins when the cap hit goes into the 40s and he's taking up close to 20%. The team will have to shed talent.

As far Rodgers goes, he's not exactly collecting rings. Despite how good Rodgers is, and despite how good Drew Brees is, You more often see teams with young quarterbacks still on rookie contracts making it to the SB. Rams, Eagles, and 49ers. I know the latter wasn't a rookie deal. But his cap hit at the time was around 10%. The quarterbacks on these teams are nowhere near as good as Rodgers and Brees over the years. Either is Dak.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Back up, G. You said average to below average. Those guys all fit the bill to a T. You were simply wrong on this one, or maybe spoke too quickly.

Not really. If you're using Dilfer as average or below average, then every one of those other QB's were better than Dilfer so then according to your standard of average or below average with Dilfer all those other QB's were above average.
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[gjkoeppen]

It can mean both...

Yes it can but when used in sports it means giving the team your on a lesser contract. Like I said, anyone that's been an NFL fan for more than a week knows.
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[USArmyVet]

This is ludicrous logic. The game is 11 on 11 not 1 on 1. The decline of that Super Bowl team might have been owed more to the defense falling from 6th to 26th from year to year. Maybe if Williams had been able to line up at linebacker? Or how about the fact that the running game slipped from 7th to 25th. William's body was breaking down in those last couple of years in Washington and he couldn't carry them. QBs got hit in those days and couldn't play into their 40's. But it should not diminish how good guys were because the rule changes make it so easy for guys to put up stupid numbers now.

Funny hownow you say it's a TEAM game, 11 on 11 as you say, as a means to defend Williams for his record after the Super Bowl yet earlier you were gloating over the fact about what the Tampa Bay record was for 10 years after Williams left....as if placing any success TB had squarely on Williams' shoulders.

You can't have it both ways.

 

[gjkoeppen]

I'm not one of the people that believed Mahomes contract was team friendly. I said as much in the thread. But considering his talent, any cap hit between 10-15% should be good with him at QB. Lets see how many he wins when the cap hit goes into the 40s and he's taking up close to 20%. The team will have to shed talent.

As far Rodgers goes, he's not exactly collecting rings. Despite how good Rodgers is, and despite how good Drew Brees is, You more often see teams with young quarterbacks still on rookie contracts making it to the SB. Rams, Eagles, and 49ers. I know the latter wasn't a rookie deal. But his cap hit at the time was around 10%. The quarterbacks on these teams are nowhere near as good as Rodgers and Brees over the years. Either is Dak.

You very well may be right on what the chiefs do after Mahomes percentage of the cap goes up and they have to shed players, but what you said about elite QB's like Rodgers and Brees isn't exactly all together true. The packers went to the NFC championship game two years in a row now and a play here or there and they could have gone to the Super Bowl. Everyone knows how Brees and the saints got screwed out of going to a Super Bowl when in their NFC championship game they got screwed when a blatant pass interference wasn't called. That was such a bad non-call that the league changed the challenge rule for a couple of years to allow for challenging pass interference calls. In both of those cases we don't know if they would have won those Super Bowls but just getting there shows that a team can have a top QB and still get there.
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[Flamma]

You very well may be right on what the chiefs do after Mahomes percentage of the cap goes up and they have to shed players, but what you said about elite QB's like Rodgers and Brees isn't exactly all together true. The packers went to the NFC championship game two years in a row now and a play here or there and they could have gone to the Super Bowl. Everyone knows how Brees and the saints got screwed out of going to a Super Bowl when in their NFC championship game they got screwed when a blatant pass interference wasn't called. That was such a bad non-call that the league changed the challenge rule for a couple of years to allow for challenging pass interference calls. In both of those cases we don't know if they would have won those Super Bowls but just getting there shows that a team can have a top QB and still get there.
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I know. Might have's and what ifs. And Rodgers could have, I know. But these are all elite quarterbacks we're talking about. As far as the non call, the Rams would never have even been in that position unless Goff was on a rookie deal. You can load up a little more when your QBs cap hit isn't a factor. They held the team that won the SB to 13 points. Probably the lowest winning score in SB history. Then there's always the possibility that all of the contenders QBs are at market value. Then one has to get there. Then it will probably be the team with the better QB.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I'm not one of the people that believed Mahomes contract was team friendly. I said as much in the thread. But considering his talent, any cap hit between 10-15% should be good with him at QB. Lets see how many he wins when the cap hit goes into the 40s and he's taking up close to 20%. The team will have to shed talent.

As far Rodgers goes, he's not exactly collecting rings. Despite how good Rodgers is, and despite how good Drew Brees is, You more often see teams with young quarterbacks still on rookie contracts making it to the SB. Rams, Eagles, and 49ers. I know the latter wasn't a rookie deal. But his cap hit at the time was around 10%. The quarterbacks on these teams are nowhere near as good as Rodgers and Brees over the years. Either is Dak.

the key to all of it is good drafting, keeping the right talent you drafted, evaluating players correctly....and of course coaching...game day coaching is the most important aspect of it all.

 

[GMO415]

Let's put it this way.....my employer came to my Unit requesting we forgo our raise, due to COVID financial complication. Our response was....**** you pay me! Same applies here.

 

[FVSTONE]

this is total bullshiet that teams have been going into prevent defenses right away.....I call bullshiet..... we have been average in scoring in first, second, third quarter and much better than many in the 4th....that's quarter by quarter score....defensively we have been very bad in first, second and third quarter......

Dallas 2019 scoring ranks by quarter
1st - 18th
2nd - 6th
3rd - 15th
4th - 2nd

compare that to the defense by quarter in 2019
1st - 21st
2nd - 12th
3rd - 17th
4th - 2nd

and lets compare the first 5 games of 2020,
Offense first 5 games based on final results would have ranked
1st - 15th
2nd - 2nd
3rd - 5th
4th - 1st

and lets compare that to defensive performance by quarter in the first 5 games
1st - 32nd
2nd - 32nd
3rd - 18th
4th - 18th

the defense sucked early and often. the offense was average in 1st and top 5 in average per quarter for 2nd and 3rd quarter...

so this made up fantasy, perception about offense being slow, behind, etc.....makes no sense when you look at the numbers and facts....its perception, driven by a mental agenda to formulate something against the offense to fit the agenda to blame it on Dak...

Looks like you did more work than Dak did in 2020....................

Rams 7-0 1st Quarter - Dak struggled early
Atlanta 20 - 0 1st Quarter - Dak and the rest of the Cowboys refused to leave locker room throughout the 1st quarter.
Seattle 23-15 Half - Dak threw 2 picks
Cleveland 31-14 Half - Dak threw 1 pick
Giants 14-3 1st Quarter Dak threw 1 pick
For a top whatever QB he's not getting the job done. Not worth the bank he's demanding! It appears he threw more picks than TDs.....ha-haaaa!

 

[FVSTONE]

You sound EXACTLY like a fan who THINKS he's a coach. There isn't an NFL coach anywhere that even with a double digit lead in the 1st quarter that start doing prevent defenses. That's just your fan mentality talking. If anything they put the pedal to the metal and try to build an even bigger lead that early in a game. You're also another one that wants to put all of the losses and bad things that happen on ONLY the QB and forget that it's a team sport and EVERY player has to do their job not just the QB. Maybe if the defense kept the other teams out of the end zone maybe they wouldn't have a double digit deficit in the 1st quarter. Maybe if the Cowboys didn't to start their drives 75, 80, 85, 90 yards from a TD they would have gotten more. Going by your way of thinking that in every game that a team doesn't score on their opening drive they must have a crappy QB. So Wilson and Brady and Rodgers and Mahomes all must be crappy QB because they have had games where they didn't score on their opening drives.
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It's been 2 yrs since the Cowboys have had a open drive TD......... Cowboys need to spread the wealth around on FAs and forget about signing this 4th rd wannabe QB. The above QBs you listed have all WON with lousy defenses, that's something Dak isn't capable of doing. How many teams has this fearless leader beat with winning records the last 3 years? I rest my case!

 

[Flamma]

the key to all of it is good drafting, keeping the right talent you drafted, evaluating players correctly....and of course coaching...game day coaching is the most important aspect of it all.

I couldn't agree more. Plays a big role. The GM also plays a role with players and not screwing up the cap. Dallas coaching hasn't been very good for years.

 

[gjkoeppen]

I know. Might have's and what ifs. And Rodgers could have, I know. But these are all elite quarterbacks we're talking about. As far as the non call, the Rams would never have even been in that position unless Goff was on a rookie deal. You can load up a little more when your QBs cap hit isn't a factor. They held the team that won the SB to 13 points. Probably the lowest winning score in SB history. Then there's always the possibility that all of the contenders QBs are at market value. Then one has to get there. Then it will probably be the team with the better QB.

I know this is going to shock you but there have been 17 Super Bowls with closer scores than Super Bowl LIII 10 point difference and that was not the only Super Bowl where the losing team only scored 3 points. Yes that's the lowest winning score by 1 point one time and 2 points 3 times. In 2018 the rams defense wasn't the defense they have now and wasn't their strong suite, it was their running game. In the divisional round they allowed the Cowboys to score 22 points and they also had not just 1 but TWO RB's to rush over 100 yards. The next week is when the saints got screwed. Yes having Goff on a rookie contract helped them build to where their defense is today, but Goff on a rookie contract had little to do with getting to Super Bowl LIII and getting away with pass interference.
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