Why Oxnard

[Bartlebie]

I love the idea that running Oklahomas without water in 100 degree heat builds endurance and character. It built me a few heat strokes playing ball in Mississippi heat and humidity. I think I'll go ahead and trust today's science of conditioning over my old ideas of "gettin ready to play".

I remember the good ole days. They weren't good. Just old. They go to Cali for the weather and the media.

 

[RonnieT24]

Question is why does the players union want camps so soft?

Because they have become convinced that left to their own devices NFL coaches would work guys until they keeled over dead. They're probably not wrong about some coaches but I imagine most have the good sense to listen to the trainers and team doctors. With all this new fangled technology they can monitor guys throughout practice and pull them out when certain vital signs call for it. I think a lot of this came into being after the Korey Stringer death. The NFLPA came out and said injuries were down and quality of play was up last year after the virtual offseason and no preseason. They clearly watched different games than the ones I watched.

 

[RonnieT24]

Given the limits the NFL/NFLPA have in place for workouts you would not have to worry about dead legs coming out of training camp because of heat.

That's the thing about heat and humidity.. You don't even have to be doing anything strenuous and it will still tire you out just being exposed to it. I think the Cowboys are doing the right thing to remove the Texas heat from the equation for training camp. Sure they could practice indoors at The Star but 25-30 straight days practicing on turf will take a bigger toll on guys bodies' than the heat.

 

[Doomsday101]

This summer, the Cowboys moved their training camp to St. Edward`s University in Austin. It is a sweatbox compared to Thousand Oaks-it was 96 degrees for a recent intrasquad scrimmage-but that`s the way Jimmy Johnson wants it.

He is turning up the heat in his second year, literally.

There is a nasty edge to the practices. Fights are commonplace. There was a 10-man battle royal on the first day of camp. Two weeks ago, linebacker Eugene Lockhart tossed running back Timmy Smith heavily to the ground, setting off another brawl that involved as many as eight players.

While Landry`s practices were long on timing and short on contact, Johnson`s two-a-days are just the opposite. There is a lot of hitting, with full scrimmages almost every afternoon. Asked when he might start tapering off, Johnson replied sharply: ''In December.''

After winning just one game and losing 15 last season, the Cowboys are starting over, and they are doing it Jimmy Johnson`s way.

''We`re not in the condition I want us to be in, so we will accelerate the conditioning after practice,'' Johnson said angrily.

Landry knew what he had in camp. Roger Staubach, Tony Dorsett, Randy White and Co. knew how to win. More importantly, they knew how to prepare to win.

Jimmy Johnson still isn`t sure what he has to work with, so he is using a boot-camp approach to find out.

For Johnson, who was 44-4 in his last four years at the University of Miami, last season was a rude introduction to the NFL.

''I knew I was walking into a difficult situation,'' Johnson said, relaxing after a recent practice. ''The Cowboys were coming off three straight losing seasons.

''The worst mistake I made last year was listening to people who said,

`That`s not the way it`s done in pro football. That`s the way you did it in college, but it won`t work in the pros.` I let that influence me, and it was a mistake. I should have done things my way. We couldn`t have done any worse.''

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1990-08-15-9003080544-story.html

Myself I understand the comforts of California during the summer but I think this team needs to toughen up and play with some nastiness as Jimmy talks about with his teams. One poster told me you could win with the talent Dallas had, yet this team showed up to Austin after going 1-15 and Jimmy was not going to go through that again and had camp moved to Austin, results speak for themselves

 

[DandyDon52]

I have to say I am somewhat surprised the military had already made the turn as early as the mid 80's. Lord knows when I was high school in the 70's (class of '78) they did not hesitate to send us out in the Florida 95 degree heat with 98% relative humidity and run us till we puked. Guys puked, cramped, all manner of maladies but thank the Lord nobody died and I don't think I ever even saw anyone pass out from the heat. But then we had all grown up in that climate. We had been kicked out of the house to "get outta my face and go play!" since we 4-5 years old. When we weren't doing football training camp were doing AAU Track and Field. I didn't even know it was POSSIBLE for anyone to actually die from heat until that kid died one summer in the late 70's or early 80's. That was when things started to change I guess.

The problem is dehydration in heat, which makes a person more prone to injury and other maladies, and even dying from heat stroke.
The heat is ok, if you take "cool" breaks Frequently and drink cool fluids, eat ice , have shaded cool rest areas on field etc.
The danger is stupidity and ignorance more than the heat itself.

But if teams avoid the heat all summer, then have to play 3 hour games in hot stadiums in Sept or even at night in PS games,
they are just not prepared for it.
How often do we see players go out due to dehydration, and if they get even slightly dehydrated, thats when injuries can occur more easily.
Men also dehydrate faster than women, I learned that watching survivor Season 11. They had to walk 10 miles in the heat of Guatemala, in a jungle,
and the guys were all puking and cramping up, and 2 almost had heat strokes. The women were ok lol.

 

[Doomsday101]

That's the thing about heat and humidity.. You don't even have to be doing anything strenuous and it will still tire you out just being exposed to it. I think the Cowboys are doing the right thing to remove the Texas heat from the equation for training camp. Sure they could practice indoors at The Star but 25-30 straight days practicing on turf will take a bigger toll on guys bodies' than the heat.

again it works and Jimmy Johnson knew it, he knew this team needed to be better conditioned he knew they needed to come in a tougher and a nastier team. After a total flop in year 1 where he went 1-15 Jimmy changed it, no longer were we going to be soft and his teams were ready. You make sure your players are hydrated and you do not go it in the middle of the afternoon but I can tell you 1st hand High School and College kids have been going through this every year since the start of football. It is brutal but it works

 

[DandyDon52]

Because they have become convinced that left to their own devices NFL coaches would work guys until they keeled over dead. They're probably not wrong about some coaches but I imagine most have the good sense to listen to the trainers and team doctors. With all this new fangled technology they can monitor guys throughout practice and pull them out when certain vital signs call for it. I think a lot of this came into being after the Korey Stringer death. The NFLPA came out and said injuries were down and quality of play was up last year after the virtual offseason and no preseason. They clearly watched different games than the ones I watched.

that is true, due to the nfl having a lot of dumb coaches, but they just need rules about breaks when working in the heat.
I will also add that big guys and fat guys will dehydrated quicker than the smaller guys, so they need more frequent breaks and more fluids.

 

[JoeKing]

This summer, the Cowboys moved their training camp to St. Edward`s University in Austin. It is a sweatbox compared to Thousand Oaks-it was 96 degrees for a recent intrasquad scrimmage-but that`s the way Jimmy Johnson wants it.

He is turning up the heat in his second year, literally.

There is a nasty edge to the practices. Fights are commonplace. There was a 10-man battle royal on the first day of camp. Two weeks ago, linebacker Eugene Lockhart tossed running back Timmy Smith heavily to the ground, setting off another brawl that involved as many as eight players.

While Landry`s practices were long on timing and short on contact, Johnson`s two-a-days are just the opposite. There is a lot of hitting, with full scrimmages almost every afternoon. Asked when he might start tapering off, Johnson replied sharply: ''In December.''

After winning just one game and losing 15 last season, the Cowboys are starting over, and they are doing it Jimmy Johnson`s way.

''We`re not in the condition I want us to be in, so we will accelerate the conditioning after practice,'' Johnson said angrily.

Landry knew what he had in camp. Roger Staubach, Tony Dorsett, Randy White and Co. knew how to win. More importantly, they knew how to prepare to win.

Jimmy Johnson still isn`t sure what he has to work with, so he is using a boot-camp approach to find out.

For Johnson, who was 44-4 in his last four years at the University of Miami, last season was a rude introduction to the NFL.

''I knew I was walking into a difficult situation,'' Johnson said, relaxing after a recent practice. ''The Cowboys were coming off three straight losing seasons.

''The worst mistake I made last year was listening to people who said,

`That`s not the way it`s done in pro football. That`s the way you did it in college, but it won`t work in the pros.` I let that influence me, and it was a mistake. I should have done things my way. We couldn`t have done any worse.''

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1990-08-15-9003080544-story.html

Myself I understand the comforts of California during the summer but I think this team needs to toughen up and play with some nastiness as Jimmy talks about with his teams. One poster told me you could win with the talent Dallas had, yet this team showed up to Austin after going 1-15 and Jimmy was not going to go through that again and had camp moved to Austin, results speak for themselves

This is just a reminder of the barbaric conditions Jimmy Johnson favored. It's a time gone by when cruelty was part of the regimen. The NFLPA was right to negotiate those practices out of the CBA. There are better ways to condition athletes. Be thankful for the powers that be that had the moral fortitude to adjust the regimen to be more humane.

 

[DandyDon52]

again it works and Jimmy Johnson knew it, he knew this team needed to be better conditioned he knew they needed to come in a tougher and a nastier team. After a total flop in year 1 where he went 1-15 Jimmy changed it, no longer were we going to be soft and his teams were ready. You make sure your players are hydrated and you do not go it in the middle of the afternoon but I can tell you 1st hand High School and College kids have been going through this every year since the start of football. It is brutal but it works

Jimmy did want his teams in great condition, but he also probably went overboard with it.
There is no need to be brutal slave driver , you can achieve same results with a smarter safer approach.

 

[Doomsday101]

This is just a reminder of the barbaric conditions Jimmy Johnson favored. It's a time gone by when cruelty was part of the regimen. The NFLPA was right to negotiate those practices out of the CBA. There are better ways to condition athletes. Be thankful for the powers that be that had the moral fortitude to adjust the regimen to be more humane.

Yeah he was barbaric just like these mean old coaches here in Texas who are coaching high school and college football. But what the hell does Jimmy know about getting a team in condition and winning.

 

[JoeKing]

Yeah he was barbaric just like these mean old coaches here in Texas who are coaching high school and college football. But what the hell does Jimmy know about getting a team in condition and winning.

What do you not understand about "times have changed"? What was once common practice league-wide is now forbidden by the CBA. Find another way. It worked for Jimmy but it wasn't unique to just what Jimmy and the Cowboys did. Other teams did it too and it didn't work for them. The NFLPA was right to get that barbarism removed from what is allowed in accordance with the CBA.

 

[RonnieT24]

again it works and Jimmy Johnson knew it, he knew this team needed to be better conditioned he knew they needed to come in a tougher and a nastier team. After a total flop in year 1 where he went 1-15 Jimmy changed it, no longer were we going to be soft and his teams were ready. You make sure your players are hydrated and you do not go it in the middle of the afternoon but I can tell you 1st hand High School and College kids have been going through this every year since the start of football. It is brutal but it works

The key here being "high school and college kids." As we age our tolerance for such things diminishes. Jimmy had the youngest team in the NFL when he was using those methods. I think if he had stuck around until those guys got a little older he would have found that it didn't work quite as well. When he went to coach the Dolphins I'm sure he tried the same methods but that was a much older team and the results were slightly less spectacular. It is what it is. Jimmy would never admit it but 1989 was a learning experience for him about more than just conditioning. He and his staff needed to learn the NFL game.. as did his rookie QB..

 

[Doomsday101]

What do you not understand about "times have changed"? What was once common practice league-wide is now forbidden by the CBA. Find another way. It worked for Jimmy but it wasn't unique to just what Jimmy and the Cowboys did. Other teams did it too and it didn't work for them. The NFLPA was right to get that barbarism removed from what is allowed in accordance with the CBA.

I know this team has not sniffed a championship. Tampa works in the hot sun and high humid conditions it did not kill them, it did not hurt them. NFLPA hardly allows any contract, limited practice and is a complete Joke.

 

[RonnieT24]

that is true, due to the nfl having a lot of dumb coaches, but they just need rules about breaks when working in the heat.
I will also add that big guys and fat guys will dehydrated quicker than the smaller guys, so they need more frequent breaks and more fluids.

This whole discussion reminds me of that t-shirt you see at almost every gym in the country that reads "Pain is weakness leaving your body." I always wanted to get a rebuttal t-shirt made that reads "No pain is your body telling you you're doing something stupid."

 

[Doomsday101]

The key here being "high school and college kids." As we age our tolerance for such things diminishes. Jimmy had the youngest team in the NFL when he was using those methods. I think if he had stuck around until those guys got a little older he would have found that it didn't work quite as well. When he went to coach the Dolphins I'm sure he tried the same methods but that was a much older team and the results were slightly less spectacular. It is what it is. Jimmy would never admit it but 1989 was a learning experience for him about more than just conditioning. He and his staff needed to learn the NFL game.. as did his rookie QB..

Jimmy had a team out of shape and soft, he knew it and he changed that. These guys are not old, they can deal with the fricken heat. You guys act as if these guys are delicate little flowers they are not they are young men who should be able to handle it. Those early games on many occasions are played in the heat, they don't postpone games because it is so hot. Amazing people here whine about the culture well I agree and this team needs a culture shock now some soft ars camp in ideal climate

 

[JoeKing]

I know this team has not sniffed a championship. Tampa works in the hot sun and high humid conditions it did not kill them, it did not hurt them. NFLPA hardly allows any contract, limited practice and is a complete Joke.

Tampa works out in accordance with the CBA just like everyone else these days. THAT is why "it did not kill them, it did not hurt them". You are obviously stuck in a bygone era. You not liking it is your problem.

 

[Miller]

NORTHeast? You don't know what hot is! Try playing outside under the Arizona sun in August. It's impossible. There is a reason the Cardinals play in an air-conditioned stadium.

And why their camp is in Flagstaff where the temps are 50s-70s..plus they get some altitude training. My BIL used to have a place in Flagstaff. Fly into Phoenix and it’s 115 snd drive up 2-2 1/2 to Flag and you’re in the 70s

 

[RonnieT24]

Tampa works out in accordance with the CBA just like everyone else these days. THAT is why "it did not kill them, it did not hurt them". You are obviously stuck in a bygone era. You not liking it is your problem.

Yeah notice that back when coaches could beat the hell outta their team and nobody said a word the heat and humidity DID hurt the Bucs.. cause they missed the playoffs every year between 1982 and 1997. Working out in the heat and humidity did not appear to have benefitted them much at all during that span.

 

[JoeKing]

Jimmy had a team out of shape and soft, he knew it and he changed that. These guys are not old, they can deal with the fricken heat. You guys act as if these guys are delicate little flowers they are not they are young men who should be able to handle it. Those early games on many occasions are played in the heat, they don't postpone games because it is so hot. Amazing people here whine about the culture well I agree and this team needs a culture shock now some soft ars camp in ideal climate

LOL, you are speaking against forces bigger than you realize. It seems you speak of the culture of the team without understanding the culture of this generation. If only you had a time machine so you could go back to that bygone time you loved so much.

 

[CapnB]

2 of Jerry's wives live out in cali