CFZ Why the Cowboys needed to move on from Moore

[plymkr]

Someone commented in another thread that fans had no real reasons for wanting to move on from Moore and it was mostly driven by a reaction to losing.

Even if you ignore the fact that well respected coaches like Parcells and Johnson have come out questioning the Cowboys offense, it really is obvious at this point that what the Cowboys have been doing has not been working when in matters .. the playoffs.

I do not blame Moore for all of the offensive problems in the playoffs because the players still have to play the game and Prescott throwing two game-changing interceptions against the 49ers is not Moore's fault, at least not directly.

That said, I have had some issues with Moore's playcalling for a while such as ..

• the constant comeback routes, especially when playing against zone defenses.
• the short of the line-to-go throws on third downs.
• the slow developing out routes.
• the quick wide out throws without any misdirection or attempt to hide the play.
• the lack of attacking downfield, especially early in the game to keep the safeties honest.
• the lack of attacking the middle of the field.
• the badly designed trick plays.
• the trick plays called when there is no reason to call them.
• the lack of misdirection plays to keep the defense honest and guessing.
• giving the quarterback too much control over audibles when it's clear he's not great at it.

At times, Moore's play calling can be impressive while other times it looks like he's spinning a playbook randomizer wheel to select the plays he calls.

I think the biggest reason the Cowboys need to move on from Moore though is the fact that his offense, whether his fault or not, has simply not produced in the playoffs.

When you combine that with the fact that the NFC East teams are quite familiar with the Cowboys play calling as they have been running a similar offense for years, it makes sense to change offensive systems to see if that can improve the team's performance.

I do not hate Moore and as long as he ends up with an AFC team I hope he does well.

I really think he needs to spend some time under another offensive minded coach because it's not his fault he was trapped in Jason Garrett's offense for a lot of his playing and coaching career.

Going forward though, I think the most important part of this move is that the 2023 team will be all on McCarthy and his chosen staff.

That means any failures now will be all on him and since he was with the team when it signed Prescott to his current contract, Prescott's successes and failures are all on McCarthy as well.

For better or worse, with Moore leaving and Quinn returning, at least Cowboys fans have something to grasp on to for optimism for next season.

All good points. Well said

 

[unionjack8]

Good thread, I just want to add this rather obscure stat group: Per possession

Dallas ranked 18th in the NFL in yards per drive
Dallas ranked 17th in the NFL in plays per drive

You are saying "Well Doomsday, that's odd. I thought Dallas had one of the best offenses in the NFL?"

They did scoring wise but Dallas ranked 1st in takeaways this year. They also ranked 1st in takeaways last year. Sooooooo many of Dallas' points came on short fields. When the defense didn't generate turnovers, the offense couldn't put points on the board and they always struggled to sustain drives. From a yardage standpoint, Dallas simply got more possessions than other teams.

Dallas wasn't nearly as good on offense as some people believe and conversely, were better on defense. Those same stats for defense
Dallas ranked 6th in yards allowed per drive
Dallas ranked 9th in plays allowed per drive
Dallas ranked 1st in turnovers created per drive

Turnovers were the story of 2022 on both sides of the ball and for some reason, a lot of people selectively forget about them.

GREAT POST

 

[Cboyfan4ever]

Another scapegoat goes down due to poor QB play.There will be no one left by the time Dak is done here.The problem is the QB, not everyone else who bites the dust because of his many shortcomings.

 

[DanA]

I think the biggest reason we needed to move on from Moore is that we need to find out if Dak is a dud being carried by Moore, Moore is a dud being carried by Dak, or where it sits in between.

 

[Pantone282C]

Good post of very specific examples. Just frustrating how such a brilliant mind could come up with such head scratching plays - some with very costly outcomes.

 

[Pantone282C]

Whether the team or specific players blew the plays from incompetence or errors, he is responsible for his own inadequacies.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Someone commented in another thread that fans had no real reasons for wanting to move on from Moore and it was mostly driven by a reaction to losing.

Even if you ignore the fact that well respected coaches like Parcells and Johnson have come out questioning the Cowboys offense, it really is obvious at this point that what the Cowboys have been doing has not been working when in matters .. the playoffs.

I do not blame Moore for all of the offensive problems in the playoffs because the players still have to play the game and Prescott throwing two game-changing interceptions against the 49ers is not Moore's fault, at least not directly.

That said, I have had some issues with Moore's playcalling for a while such as ..

• the constant comeback routes, especially when playing against zone defenses.
• the short of the line-to-go throws on third downs.
• the slow developing out routes.
• the quick wide out throws without any misdirection or attempt to hide the play.
• the lack of attacking downfield, especially early in the game to keep the safeties honest.
• the lack of attacking the middle of the field.
• the badly designed trick plays.
• the trick plays called when there is no reason to call them.
• the lack of misdirection plays to keep the defense honest and guessing.
• giving the quarterback too much control over audibles when it's clear he's not great at it.

At times, Moore's play calling can be impressive while other times it looks like he's spinning a playbook randomizer wheel to select the plays he calls.

I think the biggest reason the Cowboys need to move on from Moore though is the fact that his offense, whether his fault or not, has simply not produced in the playoffs.

When you combine that with the fact that the NFC East teams are quite familiar with the Cowboys play calling as they have been running a similar offense for years, it makes sense to change offensive systems to see if that can improve the team's performance.

I do not hate Moore and as long as he ends up with an AFC team I hope he does well.

I really think he needs to spend some time under another offensive minded coach because it's not his fault he was trapped in Jason Garrett's offense for a lot of his playing and coaching career.

Going forward though, I think the most important part of this move is that the 2023 team will be all on McCarthy and his chosen staff.

That means any failures now will be all on him and since he was with the team when it signed Prescott to his current contract, Prescott's successes and failures are all on McCarthy as well.

For better or worse, with Moore leaving and Quinn returning, at least Cowboys fans have something to grasp on to for optimism for next season.

well put. I think jerry screwed kellen and kellen screwed himself by taking a job he wasn't ready for, so early in his career. he could have benefited from working under several other coaches and learning play calling, game management, etc. he picked up a lot of bad habits that he has to let go now. he is smart. he will learn. go back to being a position coach, an offensive quality coach, a run game coordinator, and observer and learn.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Almost every offensive coordinator has their own set of issues. Kellen is one of them.

With that said, we had a top offense with him here as the OC.

Ill never understand how almost the entire fanbase complain about lack or weapons and then in the next breath say Kellen needs to go…

stats collected against lesser teams....wasn't that the accusation before?

 

[BigD5]

Someone commented in another thread that fans had no real reasons for wanting to move on from Moore and it was mostly driven by a reaction to losing.

Even if you ignore the fact that well respected coaches like Parcells and Johnson have come out questioning the Cowboys offense, it really is obvious at this point that what the Cowboys have been doing has not been working when in matters .. the playoffs.

I do not blame Moore for all of the offensive problems in the playoffs because the players still have to play the game and Prescott throwing two game-changing interceptions against the 49ers is not Moore's fault, at least not directly.

That said, I have had some issues with Moore's playcalling for a while such as ..

• the constant comeback routes, especially when playing against zone defenses.
• the short of the line-to-go throws on third downs.
• the slow developing out routes.
• the quick wide out throws without any misdirection or attempt to hide the play.
• the lack of attacking downfield, especially early in the game to keep the safeties honest.
• the lack of attacking the middle of the field.
• the badly designed trick plays.
• the trick plays called when there is no reason to call them.
• the lack of misdirection plays to keep the defense honest and guessing.
• giving the quarterback too much control over audibles when it's clear he's not great at it.

At times, Moore's play calling can be impressive while other times it looks like he's spinning a playbook randomizer wheel to select the plays he calls.

I think the biggest reason the Cowboys need to move on from Moore though is the fact that his offense, whether his fault or not, has simply not produced in the playoffs.

When you combine that with the fact that the NFC East teams are quite familiar with the Cowboys play calling as they have been running a similar offense for years, it makes sense to change offensive systems to see if that can improve the team's performance.

I do not hate Moore and as long as he ends up with an AFC team I hope he does well.

I really think he needs to spend some time under another offensive minded coach because it's not his fault he was trapped in Jason Garrett's offense for a lot of his playing and coaching career.

Going forward though, I think the most important part of this move is that the 2023 team will be all on McCarthy and his chosen staff.

That means any failures now will be all on him and since he was with the team when it signed Prescott to his current contract, Prescott's successes and failures are all on McCarthy as well.

For better or worse, with Moore leaving and Quinn returning, at least Cowboys fans have something to grasp on to for optimism for next season.

With Moore it is simple.

If you ain’t coaching it, then you’re allowing it

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

If you're a it's all Moore's fault guy or an it's all Dak's fault guy. I think we are going to find out next season who was the bigger problem. Personally I don't have an issue with Moore going.

to me its not all one or the other. the combination ran its course. we know Dak is not elite. he needs some help on the team and from his coach. the problem was a first time OC, with all of one year of coaching experience anywhere,..>ANY WHERE, wasn't going to help this team.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

Hint.. It’s Dak.

Moore was not a bad offensive coordinator. It’s just easier to blame him then put blame on a QB that you can’t get rid of.

yes, Dak is not elite. he needs some help for this team to succeed and the OC wasn't helping. he was way too green and continuously made the same mistakes over and over.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

The biggest anchor Moore had to deal with was centering the offense around an overrated to begin with and then washed up rb.

and who is your QB that's going to take this offense to the next level? oh wait, you have none. you jus t like to b!tch...perhaps its that time of the month

 

[Miller]

Someone commented in another thread that fans had no real reasons for wanting to move on from Moore and it was mostly driven by a reaction to losing.

Even if you ignore the fact that well respected coaches like Parcells and Johnson have come out questioning the Cowboys offense, it really is obvious at this point that what the Cowboys have been doing has not been working when in matters .. the playoffs.

I do not blame Moore for all of the offensive problems in the playoffs because the players still have to play the game and Prescott throwing two game-changing interceptions against the 49ers is not Moore's fault, at least not directly.

That said, I have had some issues with Moore's playcalling for a while such as ..

• the constant comeback routes, especially when playing against zone defenses.
• the short of the line-to-go throws on third downs.
• the slow developing out routes.
• the quick wide out throws without any misdirection or attempt to hide the play.
• the lack of attacking downfield, especially early in the game to keep the safeties honest.
• the lack of attacking the middle of the field.
• the badly designed trick plays.
• the trick plays called when there is no reason to call them.
• the lack of misdirection plays to keep the defense honest and guessing.
• giving the quarterback too much control over audibles when it's clear he's not great at it.

At times, Moore's play calling can be impressive while other times it looks like he's spinning a playbook randomizer wheel to select the plays he calls.

I think the biggest reason the Cowboys need to move on from Moore though is the fact that his offense, whether his fault or not, has simply not produced in the playoffs.

When you combine that with the fact that the NFC East teams are quite familiar with the Cowboys play calling as they have been running a similar offense for years, it makes sense to change offensive systems to see if that can improve the team's performance.

I do not hate Moore and as long as he ends up with an AFC team I hope he does well.

I really think he needs to spend some time under another offensive minded coach because it's not his fault he was trapped in Jason Garrett's offense for a lot of his playing and coaching career.

Going forward though, I think the most important part of this move is that the 2023 team will be all on McCarthy and his chosen staff.

That means any failures now will be all on him and since he was with the team when it signed Prescott to his current contract, Prescott's successes and failures are all on McCarthy as well.

For better or worse, with Moore leaving and Quinn returning, at least Cowboys fans have something to grasp on to for optimism for next season.

Great post. I just thought the offense reminded me of some old 70s/80s ones where the mindset was 1st/2nd run, 3rd throw. Then his way of “mixing it up” was throwing on 1st. It was a pattern. Just needs someone with new thoughts

 

[quickccc]

You nailed it my friend.

Why hire a coach like Mike and then don't let him run his offense. That was Mike's calling card. He could win with backups, multiple injuries to the offensive line, and a bad running game.

I have nothing against Moore, but his offense was stale to me.

I am actually excited to see Mike calling the plays next year. It will either expose him or the QB. I wonder if he finally pounded on Jerry's desk to make this happen? Would be a positive sign going forward if he did.

Ironically McCarthy was also heavily criticized for " bland and stale " offensive play calling in Green Bay.

Some were saying that Mike was too old schooled stuck on the traditional west coast, and didn't have the space age advanced mentality that the NFL trend was
now seeing ala RPO's , spread, etc.

The big key to any offensive play caller is the capability to always be able to expand, advance, always scheming new designs and new ways of attacking,.. we saw it with Garrett, Linehan
and Kellen, .. could the same happen with McCarthy ?

 

[phildadon86]

Almost every offensive coordinator has their own set of issues. Kellen is one of them.

With that said, we had a top offense with him here as the OC.

Ill never understand how almost the entire fanbase complain about lack or weapons and then in the next breath say Kellen needs to go…

I think the big thing with the offensive numbers that you are missing is who they are playing against.

I keep seeing here Dak beats up on bad teams. Well. One thing I have noticed and I am damn sure many others have as well is when we play a team with a good/great defense. We go very vanilla. This is a Garrett thing. Go into a shell on the road and be conservative.

One week we are running misdirection, motion pre snap etc.

Next week we are running slow developing go routes the entire game. It was insane to watch. When you get to the playoffs you need to be creative. And if you watch the film of that San Fran game. The scheme was horrible. It makes no sense why they didnt run the same game plan they had against the Eagles who also play a lot of zone. Its disgusting that with even OK QB play we are playing Philly yesterday. However the scheme did him Dak no favours in that game. Throwing on 2nd and 2 in the redzone? Multiple curl routes and come backs against a zone defense?

Its crazy.

 

[phildadon86]

I too thought it was time for change. But I do wonder how much of the bland route trees have to do w/ the limitations of the quarterback. I want to see what Kellen's offense looks like w/ Herbert next year. I've long suspected that the playbook is cut down for Dak.

See I disagree. Because when Dak took control and ran the hurry up the O moved the ball at will.

That tells me Moore's scheme was what was holding us back. As well as Daks inability to be consistent.

Letting go of Moore and letting MM call plays is the beginning of a new era in Dallas. MM fails. Hes gone. Then hopefully this FO brings in a HC. Lets him hire his own staff. And draft his own QB.

The way I see this. If we flounder next year. End up with top 5-10 pick. We can move up and draft a LEGIT QB like Drake Maye. And the NEW HC can draft him. Thats my hope at least.

 

[Bobhaze]

Someone commented in another thread that fans had no real reasons for wanting to move on from Moore and it was mostly driven by a reaction to losing.

Even if you ignore the fact that well respected coaches like Parcells and Johnson have come out questioning the Cowboys offense, it really is obvious at this point that what the Cowboys have been doing has not been working when in matters .. the playoffs.

I do not blame Moore for all of the offensive problems in the playoffs because the players still have to play the game and Prescott throwing two game-changing interceptions against the 49ers is not Moore's fault, at least not directly.

That said, I have had some issues with Moore's playcalling for a while such as ..

• the constant comeback routes, especially when playing against zone defenses.
• the short of the line-to-go throws on third downs.
• the slow developing out routes.
• the quick wide out throws without any misdirection or attempt to hide the play.
• the lack of attacking downfield, especially early in the game to keep the safeties honest.
• the lack of attacking the middle of the field.
• the badly designed trick plays.
• the trick plays called when there is no reason to call them.
• the lack of misdirection plays to keep the defense honest and guessing.
• giving the quarterback too much control over audibles when it's clear he's not great at it.

At times, Moore's play calling can be impressive while other times it looks like he's spinning a playbook randomizer wheel to select the plays he calls.

I think the biggest reason the Cowboys need to move on from Moore though is the fact that his offense, whether his fault or not, has simply not produced in the playoffs.

When you combine that with the fact that the NFC East teams are quite familiar with the Cowboys play calling as they have been running a similar offense for years, it makes sense to change offensive systems to see if that can improve the team's performance.

I do not hate Moore and as long as he ends up with an AFC team I hope he does well.

I really think he needs to spend some time under another offensive minded coach because it's not his fault he was trapped in Jason Garrett's offense for a lot of his playing and coaching career.

Going forward though, I think the most important part of this move is that the 2023 team will be all on McCarthy and his chosen staff.

That means any failures now will be all on him and since he was with the team when it signed Prescott to his current contract, Prescott's successes and failures are all on McCarthy as well.

For better or worse, with Moore leaving and Quinn returning, at least Cowboys fans have something to grasp on to for optimism for next season.

Great post. For me the point you made about this offense not being able to produce in the playoffs is the bottom line.

The NFL is a rapidly changing game and if we’re honest as Cowboys fans, the offense we’ve been running is completely outdated. The NFL changes faster than this offense’s ability to be effective.

 

[Cowboy_svt]

I think the big thing with the offensive numbers that you are missing is who they are playing against.

I keep seeing here Dak beats up on bad teams. Well. One thing I have noticed and I am damn sure many others have as well is when we play a team with a good/great defense. We go very vanilla. This is a Garrett thing. Go into a shell on the road and be conservative.

One week we are running misdirection, motion pre snap etc.

Next week we are running slow developing go routes the entire game. It was insane to watch. When you get to the playoffs you need to be creative. And if you watch the film of that San Fran game. The scheme was horrible. It makes no sense why they didnt run the same game plan they had against the Eagles who also play a lot of zone. Its disgusting that with even OK QB play we are playing Philly yesterday. However the scheme did him Dak no favours in that game. Throwing on 2nd and 2 in the redzone? Multiple curl routes and come backs against a zone defense?

Its crazy.

The playcalling we did vs Vikings thought we were just holding back the good stuff later on, but man. Kellens gameplanning felt so hot & cold, but the most egregious was not using Pollard in the passing game more and using more TE sets like we did earlier. Frustrating to say the least.

 

[Cowboy_svt]

See I disagree. Because when Dak took control and ran the hurry up the O moved the ball at will.

That tells me Moore's scheme was what was holding us back. As well as Daks inability to be consistent.

Letting go of Moore and letting MM call plays is the beginning of a new era in Dallas. MM fails. Hes gone. Then hopefully this FO brings in a HC. Lets him hire his own staff. And draft his own QB.

The way I see this. If we flounder next year. End up with top 5-10 pick. We can move up and draft a LEGIT QB like Drake Maye. And the NEW HC can draft him. Thats my hope at least.

yeah even vs Washington where he laid a dud, when it was hurry up he was moving it

 

[phildadon86]

yeah even vs Washington where he laid a dud, when it was hurry up he was moving it

Yup. Exactly. Moore's offense was great at times. But when it was bad. It was BAAAAAD.

The only time in those games that anything happened was in the hurry up.

Reminded me of Romo towards the end when he was literally using the entire play clock moving Dez around and setting up his own protections. Garrett refused to use Dez out of the slot. Which is insane considering he was a beast at YAC and RAC.