Why would Ware take a pay cut?

[TrailBlazer]

That's not your position. Your position is for Ware to settle for whatever the team wants to pay him because you somehow feel like he owes it to Jerry and the team. I don't agree with that.

Lol so now you're trying to tell me what MY own position is. Wow.

I stated that he should take 7mil. A fair deal.
Never did I say he should settle for some low ball offer.
I do believe ware should show some favoritism towards Dallas when it comes to negotiating a fair deal. He should want to get it done to help out the team. You act like that is some foreign concept.

 

[Verdict]

It is probably in the best interest of both the team and Ware to reach a deal so that he plays one more year at a reduced salary. It is beneficial for the Cowboys because we keep the player, lower the cap hit by eating up more of the signing bonus by him playing one more year, and keep a fan favorite. Ware will probably get more from us than he would from someone else for the reasons identified above. From Ware's side of the fence, he gets paid a decent salary and gets to prove he can still play at a high level, and next year he could force the Cowboys' hand and be released due to his cap number, and get a great pay day from another team.

About the only way Ware loses by playing for the Cowboys is if he tanks again this next season and in that instance his value would probably be minimal to another team. If Ware is damaged goods and doesn't think he can regain his prior form, he should refuse to take the pay cut, get cut, sign for what he can and then laugh his way to the bank. Most other scenarios favor the reduction in salary and playing for the Cowboys one more year.

 

[LatinMind]

It's possible that he might do either of those things but the numbers that are being thrown around on this board are half of what he's scheduled to make this year. Perhaps that is accurate but I kind of doubt they are.

I guess we'll see.

Yeah

But he needs to be a Cowboy in 2014. There isnt a DE in this draft other then Clowney that i would feel good saying ok Ware is gone but (insert name) is ready.

 

[Nightman]

Yeah

But he needs to be a Cowboy in 2014. There isnt a DE in this draft other then Clowney that i would feel good saying ok Ware is gone but (insert name) is ready.

That's what Free Agency is for

 

[Nightman]

It's really not that difficult of a question.

Either his base salaries were actually what you would expect them to be for a top notch player, or they weren't.

Quick question about signing bonuses. How are you even arriving at the conclusion that Ware was paid part of his bonus for his rookie deal?

Did Buffalo pay Mario Williams for some of the production he had in Houston?

Mario Williams signed a 54m rookie contract
Demarcus Ware signed a 13m rookie contract. So yes, I believe up to half of the 20m SB he got was for past performance.

Dallas wanted to keep Ware happy because he performed great for them. They could have paid him the 1m owed in 2009. Since 2010 was the lockout and it took 6 years to gain UFA, Dallas could have signed Ware again for a little over 2m. Then they could franchise him in 2011 for 10m and again in 2012 for 12m for a total of 25m for those 4 years.

Instead they made him a very rich man 2 years earlier than they had to and gave him financial security by signing him to a 7/78m deal with 40m guaranteed and 20m up front. They ended up paying him a total of 35m over those 4 years and another 6m last year. It was very fair to both sides, Ware got his security and Dallas got some salary cap relief.

Neither side technically owes the other side anything, but Ware has been treated very well and in accordance with the other top guys and could stand to give Dallas a break this time. He doesn't have to, but Dallas didn't have to do what they did either.

 

[LatinMind]

That's what Free Agency is for

Name one that will be available.

 

[Nightman]

Name one that will be available.

Jared Allen, Michael Bennett, Michael Johnson, Lamarr Houston, Arthur Jones,

 

[LatinMind]

Jared Allen, Michael Bennett, Michael Johnson, Lamarr Houston, Arthur Jones,

Jared Allen isnt looking for a paycut, Michael Bennett isnt either. Michael Johnson isnt leaving Cincy, Houston isnt leaving Oak, and Arthur jones is a DT in a 4-3

 

[Nightman]

Jared Allen isnt looking for a paycut, Michael Bennett isnt either. Michael Johnson isnt leaving Cincy, Houston isnt leaving Oak, and Arthur jones is a DT in a 4-3

Wasn't sure about Jones, but the others could be had. Not looking for a pay cut is different than what the market will bear.

 

[Hoofbite]

Mario Williams signed a 54m rookie contract
Demarcus Ware signed a 13m rookie contract. So yes, I believe up to half of the 20m SB he got was for past performance.

It doesn't matter what Mario was paid. My point was that teams don't compensate free agents for years prior to the date of signing when that player was on another team.

Dallas didn't pay Carr a lot because Carr outperformed his contract in KC.

You don't carry a tab for another team so it makes no sense to do that for your own free agents.

Dallas wanted to keep Ware happy because he performed great for them. They could have paid him the 1m owed in 2009. Since 2010 was the lockout and it took 6 years to gain UFA, Dallas could have signed Ware again for a little over 2m. Then they could franchise him in 2011 for 10m and again in 2012 for 12m for a total of 25m for those 4 years.

Instead they made him a very rich man 2 years earlier than they had to and gave him financial security by signing him to a 7/78m deal with 40m guaranteed and 20m up front. They ended up paying him a total of 35m over those 4 years and another 6m last year. It was very fair to both sides, Ware got his security and Dallas got some salary cap relief.

Neither side technically owes the other side anything, but Ware has been treated very well and in accordance with the other top guys and could stand to give Dallas a break this time. He doesn't have to, but Dallas didn't have to do what they did either.

That's just a weird view.

Yes, Jerry could have screwed Ware by not giving him a long term deal. He could have further screwed Ware by franchising him for 2 years.

So what? So Jerry didn't act like a scumbag. That's worthy of getting a "break" this time?

 

[StarBoyz83]

Jared Allen isnt looking for a paycut, Michael Bennett isnt either. Michael Johnson isnt leaving Cincy, Houston isnt leaving Oak, and Arthur jones is a DT in a 4-3

Arthur jones Is a de and should be who we go after.

 

[LatinMind]

Arthur jones Is a de and should be who we go after.

6'3 315lbs DE for this defense? Dallas doesnt run the 3-4 anymore

 

[Nightman]

It doesn't matter what Mario was paid. My point was that teams don't compensate free agents for years prior to the date of signing when that player was on another team.

Dallas didn't pay Carr a lot because Carr outperformed his contract in KC.

You don't carry a tab for another team so it makes no sense to do that for your own free agents.

You have to overpay to get a top player in Free Agency. If KC and Dallas both offered the same amount, 90 times out of 100 the player will stay with his team. You pay a premium for what you expect him to do based on what he has done in the past. You keep making it an all or nothing proposition. It's a combination of factors that determine what a team offers.

That's just a weird view.

Yes, Jerry could have screwed Ware by not giving him a long term deal. He could have further screwed Ware by franchising him for 2 years.

So what? So Jerry didn't act like a scumbag. That's worthy of getting a "break" this time?

I don't think it's "a weird view" at all to expect past considerations to impact future negotiations.

 

[StarBoyz83]

6'3 315lbs DE for this defense? Dallas doesnt run the 3-4 anymore

Hes the best de available. I think hed be great in a 4-3. But you never know.

 

[Hoofbite]

You have to overpay to get a top player in Free Agency. If KC and Dallas both offered the same amount, 90 times out of 100 the player will stay with his team. You pay a premium for what you expect him to do based on what he has done in the past. You keep making it an all or nothing proposition. It's a combination of factors that determine what a team offers.

It's not that complicated.

Signing bonuses are given to entice players to play for your team, not to pay them the money their original team didn't. End of story. No NFL team is paying players simply because they were earning a rookie contract's salary. You pay to get that production moving forward.

I'm not sure how you ever came to the conclusion that Ware was retrospectively paid. That's easily one of the worst ideas you could ever do. Even if half his $20M was supposedly for past performance, that basically means that Dallas is taking $2M in prorated cap charges over the years of 2009 to 2013 for play that occurred over 2005 to 2008.

How sane is that?

On the one hand you're saying that you base pay on past performance but Wares past performance is 15.5, 19.5, 11.5, and 6 sacks...........but Ware needs to earn less even though an average 14 sacks would cost a hell of a lot more.

If you're going to say he needs to earn less, you might not want to base it on what he has done because what he has done is pretty damn spendy.

Just call it how it is, he's declining.

 

[SilverStarCowboy]

Ware will take a pay cut because he is a Dallas Cowboy at heart...furthermore he knows his production wasn't up to par for his Contract Status.

 

[Nightman]

It's not that complicated.

Signing bonuses are given to entice players to play for your team, not to pay them the money their original team didn't. End of story. No NFL team is paying players simply because they were earning a rookie contract's salary. You pay to get that production moving forward.

I'm not sure how you ever came to the conclusion that Ware was retrospectively paid. That's easily one of the worst ideas you could ever do. Even if half his $20M was supposedly for past performance, that basically means that Dallas is taking $2M in prorated cap charges over the years of 2009 to 2013 for play that occurred over 2005 to 2008.

How sane is that?

On the one hand you're saying that you base pay on past performance but Wares past performance is 15.5, 19.5, 11.5, and 6 sacks...........but Ware needs to earn less even though an average 14 sacks would cost a hell of a lot more.

If you're going to say he needs to earn less, you might not want to base it on what he has done because what he has done is pretty damn spendy.

Just call it how it is, he's declining.

You're the one that keeps comparing to it other things like Free Agency. Teams in all sports reward players for outperforming their initial contract. It happens all the time as a way to keep your guys from hitting Free Agency. You don't think SF and SEA are going to get cheap with Kap and Wilson. They will resign them as early as they can because they are outperforming their rookie deals. You choose to look at it as only future expectations of performance, but the players also see it a reward for a job well done. Kind of like an end of the year bonus in the business world. It's a sign of appreciation and respect.

Ware isn't a young pup anymore, so it really doesn't apply. They obviously aren't falling all over themselves to keep him. Selvie got 6 sacks for 730k and Hatcher got 11 for 2m, so don't try to manipulate Ware's numbers to make whatever point you are trying to make look better.

 

[Death Star]

I understand that too.

But sometimes you have to just do whats right. I know into todays NFL thats rare. But the type of person Ware is i think he falls in that rare type of player. And that has nothing to do with his play on the field. But the type of person he is.

When its said and done i dont think he wants to play anywhere else. And i think he'll do what he needs to stay a Cowboy. And if thats take a paycut, then so be it. I think he'll either reduce his overall salary to 10mil or try and get a new deal like Suggs. 3 yr 25 mil yr deal, i could see that happening.

"What's right" is for Ware to provide for his family as best as he can in the short time he has left in the NFL before the injuries take too great a toll. Whether it's on this team or another remains to be seen.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Lol so now you're trying to tell me what MY own position is. Wow.

I stated that he should take 7mil. A fair deal.
Never did I say he should settle for some low ball offer.
I do believe ware should show some favoritism towards Dallas when it comes to negotiating a fair deal. He should want to get it done to help out the team. You act like that is some foreign concept.

Fair enough. Reread my posts. I have always contended that he should not take the best deal out there. If the Cowboys' offer is the best, so be it. If it is not, then so be it. He owes us nothing and that, after all, is what you suggested in multiple posts.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yeah

But he needs to be a Cowboy in 2014. There isnt a DE in this draft other then Clowney that i would feel good saying ok Ware is gone but (insert name) is ready.

I agree but that's why it's important that we don't low ball him and just expect him to sign. I agree with what you are saying. I am just not convinced that 6 or 7 million is the best offer he might see. It might be but we can't feel as if it's a sure thing. He just needs to do the best for himself and his family and the team needs to do the best thing for the team.