Williams facing hazy future - Mosley - 5/24/08

[Cowboyz88]

This is exactly why no one will win this argument, and why I'm so bored of the Roy stuff.

Aside from this thread, that is... for the sheer comical value of it.

You get an article from Matt Mosley, or that Lombardi dude, etc. Those articles are taken as gospel by the mob. Then when a quote from Brian Stewart is put forth by those trying to beat back the mob, the mob essentially sticks their fingers in their collective ears and sings, "la la la, not listening. You've done nothing to disprove my theory."

Where in those quotes (i.e. PROOF) does Stewart say that Roy's great or even good in coverage?

Wow! seems you are changing your stripes. At one point you were saying Roy wasn't good at anything now he's good at half his duties. I consider this a breakthrough. Shouldn't you spend more time on guys who weren't good for us at all (Jacque Reeves, Akin Ayodele). And if you are truly a fan of the Cowboys why does it surprise you that Roy isn't that great in coverage when we knew that from the beginning. In other words why so much hate for a player who you think is at least half good in his duties? I mean like 90% of your posts are about bashing Roy but you have said nothing about guys who performed even worse for this defense. What gives?

I've already addressed the Reeves/Akin thing...IMO, they were properly addressed. Heck, I've even stated that Spears is overrated.

It's not hard to understand. I NEVER was on board with Roy's new contract, and once he got his money, I became even more critical of his play.

Expectations. Play to your play.

For me, it's the same for every player. Heck, now that Newman and Barber have signed their new deals, expectations are that they should AT LEAST stay on par with their current play. IF their performance begins to wane, as with Roy, I suspect many will be unnerved.

 

[peplaw06]

:laugh2: where did i say that?

Well let's see....

You want to be right about Roy right? You think you are right, don't you?

If you are right about Roy, does that help or hurt our chances of winning football games?

You're sitting here saying, yeah we'll see in September, like this is all somehow going to be magically resolved after 2-3 games. The only way I think you can be that confident that you'll be right in September is if Roy gives up something like 6 TDs in September. Think that's going to be good for our W-L record?

Don't hurt yourself now... take it slow.

 

[peplaw06]

Where in those quotes (i.e. PROOF) does Stewart say that Roy's great or even good in coverage?

That depends... where did I say that the Stewart quote posited that?

Nevertheless, Stewart said that Roy is capable of doing everything he asks him to do. IIRC they do ask him to cover occasionally. Doesn't sound like Stewart thinks he's useless in coverage to me.

 

[Goldenrichards83]

Where in those quotes (i.e. PROOF) does Stewart say that Roy's great or even good in coverage?

So now are you changing your entire argument that you have had on this board for the last 5 months? Please tell me that you aren't saying that. Please don't make me bring up your posts on the many reasons why you hate Roy and coverage was only one of the reasons. He was no good at all is your position don't change up now.

 

[dcfanatic]

You can tell coverage by how teams line up much of the time. The only difference would be a defensive audible for a blitz, especially for zone blitz. We haven't played much Zone blitz.

We have no idea what special packages the Cowboys have. We don't even know half the time who will be on the field in a 3rd and 12 scenario. Wade and Stew played with all kinds of combos last season.

Most DBs are taught to read the QBs eyes. That's how they jump a route and how they find out if he's locked onto one guy or can look off coverages. Now Roy is the only DB in the NFL who does this? Come on DC. This ain't your first rodeo man. You know better.

Ever heard of looking off a Safety Hos? Now I know this ain't your first rodeo either so please tell me you know Safeties are not supposed to be looking into the backfield for an entire play. Roy can take a quick peak and then find his guy in coverage and get on him. Too often he looks way too long and before you know the ball is coming and he's 10 yards away from the receiver.

Haven't you noticed that all DBs get caught this way from time to time?

I'm not saying Roy is great in coverage. So don't take this to the extreme and have me placing Roy on a pedestal of invincibility. He's got flaws to be sure, but I think people are magnifying them to the point of ridiculous. No one is as good as Roy is supposed to be. Ronnie Lott himself couldn't live up to the standard Roy is being held to.

I never once said in my post that Roy was the only person in the NFL that has these faults. You are assuming this is what I meant and it goes towards the atmosphere around here that 'everyone is out to get Roy Williams'.

I have said 20 something times that I could care less if he sucks in coverage because I know he's not a CB, but he needs to make up for it with other parts of his game.

The same people who are on here acting like apologists for Roy are being just as 'blind to the reality' with their posts as are the people who are bashing him.

Right now there is no in between for anyone. That's why everyone has 'Roy Fever', lol. There is a war going on within Cowboys Nation and you must choose a side or else. lol.

It's madness I tell ya!!!

:bang2: :bang2: :bang2: :bang2:

 

[Rampage]

Well let's see....

You want to be right about Roy right? You think you are right, don't you?

If you are right about Roy, does that help or hurt our chances of winning football games?

You're sitting here saying, yeah we'll see in September, like this is all somehow going to be magically resolved after 2-3 games. The only way I think you can be that confident that you'll be right in September is if Roy gives up 6 TDs in September. Think that's going to be good for our W-L record?

Don't hurt yourself now... take it slow.

don't hurt myself and take it slow:laugh2: if i'm right or wrong it doesn't affect our chances of winning ballgames. i didn't say it will resolve it 2 games. i said "we'll see what happens when september rolls around" meaning were gonna see if Roy is as good as some people say he is and vice versa. i'm not saying september is gonna end the debate but it's sure gonna be the beginning of the end of the debate.

 

[peplaw06]

don't hurt myself and take it slow:laugh2: if i'm right or wrong it doesn't affect our chances of winning ballgames. i didn't say it will resolve it 2 games. i said "we'll see what happens when september rolls around" meaning were gonna see if Roy is as good as some people say he is and vice versa. i'm not saying september is gonna end the debate but it's sure gonna be the beginning of the end of the debate.

1) You should have taken it slower.

2) This debate hasn't begun yet? Hell then, can you do me a favor and wake me up when it does?

 

[Rampage]

1) You should have taken it slower.

2) This debate hasn't begun yet? Hell then, can you do me a favor and wake me up when it does?

read it again i said "the beginning of the end of the debate". maybe you should have taken it slower.:laugh2:

 

[Cowboyz88]

So now are you changing your entire argument that you have had on this board for the last 5 months? Please tell me that you aren't saying that. Please don't make me bring up your posts on the many reasons why you hate Roy and coverage was only one of the reasons. He was no good at all is your position don't change up now.

If you feel like going though five months of my posts, then there's no need for me to rehash my stance on Roy (thank goodness), so knock yourself out.

 

[peplaw06]

We have no idea what special packages the Cowboys have. We don't even know half the time who will be on the field in a 3rd and 12 scenario. Wade and Stew played with all kinds of combos last season.

Are you saying we can't tell when the Boys run a Zone Blitz? I think that's a pretty easy thing to tell if you look at the film.

Ever heard of looking off a Safety Hos? Now I know this ain't your first rodeo either so please tell me you know Safeties are not supposed to be looking into the backfield for an entire play. Roy can take a quick peak and then find his guy in coverage and get on him. Too often he looks way too long and before you know the ball is coming and he's 10 yards away from the receiver.

Why do QBs have to look off the Safeties? Why do the QBs who are so great at it get praised so much for it? Because every Safety does it!!! Good job proving Hos's point.

 

[peplaw06]

read it again i said "the beginning of the end of the debate".

My apologies.

The point is still that this isn't going to be resolved by a few games in September, and that's what you were implying. Why would you specifically say September if you didn't think it would be over by then?

 

[Rampage]

My apologies.

The point is still that this isn't going to be resolved by a few games in September, and that's what you were implying. Why would you specifically say September if you didn't think it would be over by then?

i said "well see when september rolls around cause it will be the beginning of the end of the debate" i was implying that his play during next season(that starts in september) will hopefully put this debate to rest.(though i doubt it will whether he plays good,bad, or average)

 

[Goldenrichards83]

If you feel like going though five months of my posts, then there's no need for me to rehash my stance on Roy (thank goodness), so knock yourself out.

Naw I won't do that to ya. its just i never have heard you say Roy was good at anything. Didn't you write his excuse thread? I'm just loving this change in you. It warms my heart to see the leader of the Roy bashers readily admit that Roy was good at something. Just curious what changed your mine him being good in half his responsibilities in all? I mean that wasn't what you were saying before.

 

[Cowboyz88]

Naw I won't do that to ya. its just i never have heard you say Roy was good at anything. Didn't you write his excuse thread? I'm just loving this change in you. It warms my heart to see the leader of the Roy bashers readily admit that Roy was good at something. Just curious what changed your mine him being good in half his responsibilities in all?

Don't get all warm and fuzzy; I'm far from a convert.

In truth, my stance hasn't changed.

Let's just say that for my sanity's sake, I don't feel like getting into the same tired stuff over and over and over again. (As I've mentioned, all my many complaints are on record).

I'm simply giving him credit for wrapping up a guy, and that's pretty much it.

 

[dcfanatic]

Are you saying we can't tell when the Boys run a Zone Blitz? I think that's a pretty easy thing to tell if you look at the film.

Why do QBs have to look off the Safeties? Why do the QBs who are so great at it get praised so much for it? Because every Safety does it!!! Good job proving Hos's point.

So you know every single defensive alignment the Cowboys are in presnap on every play? lol.

You would not know that if I gave you the coaches film bro!

So then what don't the 'elite Safeties' do? lol.

They don't get caught looking into the backfield!

:bang2:

 

[Idgit]

So, perhaps they should listen to Roy's own teammate, Terrence Newman's, opinion:

"He just sometimes gets a kind of a deer-in-the-headlights type of reaction to some plays."

"He had a bad season, as far as coverage."

He just said these things on Sports Sunday with Doocy.

So I guess we can add Newman to ALL THE OTHERS who have noted Roy's "bad season," but I'm sure some of you will just continue to listen to Adam's interpretation of Stats, Inc as law.

Do we have a link for this quote? I don't trust anybody who routinely leaps to wildly unsupported conclusions to report faithfully and in context.

who woulda thought a smartarse comment. dude go watch the play and point out this verticle route run by cooley. your just going off of what stat boy says. and about it being a zone scheme ive answered that already.

It's officially an insult to support opinions with facts in this thread.

 

[Cowboyz88]

Do we have a link for this quote? I don't trust anybody who routinely leaps to wildly unsupported conclusions to report faithfully and in context.



It's officially an insult to support opinions with facts in this thread.

I replayed it five or six times via my Tivo to make sure I quoted him correctly, so until someone uploads it to youtube, I'm all you got.

 

[Idgit]

I replayed it five or six times via my Tivo to make sure I quoted him correctly, so until someone uploads it to youtube, I'm all you got.

Fair enough. Without a link, though, you can't expect it to carry much weight. Too much can be misread and other relevant quotes can go unreported.

 

[AdamJT13]

The fans get upset, because Roy likes to point fingers at his teammates, and he is perceived not to be a hard worker in his off the field prepartion. In coverage, he constantly makes the same mistakes that DC Fanatic pointed out. According to Mosely, who has Cowboys connections, Williams called out some of his teammates on a local Dallas t.v. station.

In 2006, he showed Watkins up on the field after Watkins was beat on a play for a TD. Roy is the last person who should do this. His play has been terrible in Decemember and January during the last two years. Dropped picks, hoarse-collars, poor ball tracking against the run and pass, getting beat in coverage at critical times (about 16 of Seattle's 21 points came at Williams' expense in the playoff game.)

What does any of that have to do with what I said? If you want to blame him for plays that aren't his fault because of something else he did, go right ahead. But that doesn't make them his fault. It just means you're blaming the wrong person.

The two plays to Stevens were on Williams. Bradie James was too heavy under Parcells, so he couldn't get close to running with Stevens, but Williams is the last line of defense behind Bradie. He should be able to prevent Stevens from getting behind him in a playoff game. He is already deep on his part of the field and has Stevens right in front of him, just like Moss. Yet, he doesn't have the instincts or discipline to make the play. I thought safeties should be able to keep tightends in front of them when they are playing deep. If he can't cover the TE on a seam route, he can't play saftey in the NFL. Yet, you say that Roy isn't to blame when Stevens scores right over the top of him and drags him in the endzone. I don't get it.

I never said Roy wasn't to blame on the second one. I said Bradie James was more to blame.

Here's what Jerramy Stevens said about the play --

"(My responsibility) was to get down the middle, and if I could run past the linebacker, to keep on running. ... I knew if I got past him, Matt was going to put the ball up. I think we put them in a bind with the formation. It was a great call because we have too much speed on them right there. They were forced to vacate the middle, and all I had to do was outrun the middle linebacker."

James had one player to cover, and he failed. If he was too heavy, he was too heavy. Either way, he failed. And that put Roy in the position of having to cover two receivers deep -- Burleson and Stevens. Against that type of play in Cover 2, if the underneath coverage doesn't do their jobs, it makes the safety's job very difficult because they have to cover so much ground. Roy almost got there in time, but he didn't. So he's partly to blame. But James is more to blame. If he had done his job, the throw becomes extremely difficult, and Hasselbeck likely throws it elsewhere or James breaks up the pass (see Zach Thomas against Jason Witten or DeMarcus Ware against Donald Lee). Keith Davis would get a small share of the blame, too, for failing to recognize the two vertical routes on the other side and none on his side and not helping on the backside TE post.

 

[AdamJT13]

you can't win man. you even posted a link with the player saying he *****ed up on the moss tds and stat boy spun that saying it was only the one.

Did you even read the link? Or are you too busy wallowing in your ignorance to bother?

That quote was about the second play only. And he was blaming himself for not making the play, even though it wasn't his responsibility to make the play.