Williams facing hazy future - Mosley - 5/24/08

[AdamJT13]

Where is your llink saying Dallas was in quarters coverage?

It was discussed on the Cowboys' postgame show immediately after the game, on the radio and on DallasCowboys.com for several days after the game. None of the audio is archived.

Here's a link where Sportsticker talks about the coverage --

http://www.kffl.com/article.php/55602/115

"Everybody remembers last year's game at Texas Stadium. Leading 13-0 late in the fourth quarter the Cowboys looked like they were cruising until Moss caught touchdowns of 39 and 70 yards to give the Commanders won. Both of those touchdowns came in quarters coverage with Glenn and Williams unable to make a play either time."​

And here are posts from this forum, three days after the game, when people talked about what was said on those radio/Internet shows --

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=517428&postcount=12

"What was the exact coverage we were in?"

"Cover 4, or quarters."​

http://cowboyszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=517443&postcount=16

"I believe they said this morning the Cowboys refer to that quarters coverage as 'quads.' "​

 

[AdamJT13]

http://www.blueandsilverreport.com/2006/12/10/ Go to "Stolen Mail".

Here you go. Read Rafael Vela's post game Saints/Cowboys game recap.

Vela never even mentioned Cover-2 in his breakdown.

Like I said earlier, the Saints completed only two deep passes against Cover-2 in that game. Neither of them involved Bradie James, and only one involved Roy Williams (the other came against Henry and Davis). James certainly never said that quote about the Saints game, like you claimed

 

[AdamJT13]

http://cowboys.beloblog.com/archives/2007/08/williams_lateseason_coverage_woes.html

"Williams' Late Season Coverage Woes (by: Tim MacMahan)

Here is the link for the Bradie James comments about two seam routes dropped in between himself and Roy Williams. The 25 yard pass to Schobel and the 37 yard pass to Jerramy Stevens in the playoff game for a TD.

Bradie James clearly states Dallas was playing Cover-2 in those situations.

James says that he'll take the blame, but he thought he had safety help over the top (that would be Roy Williams). I'll quote him again:

"That's why you have a safety positon. That's the last line of defense".

You claimed James said that about the Saints game. That obviously wasn't true.

I guess when Chris Cooley or any TE or receiver beats Williams in deep zone, its more the other guys fault.

Not when it's Roy's fault.

O.K. I think both players were vulnerable during this time frame. James agrees. You seem to want to pin most of the blame on James.

When he doesn't do his job, he deserves more of the blame than the person who is supposed to help him. Imagine a cornerback getting toasted deep, then saying the safety should get most of the blame because they're supposed to be there to help. Well, they are supposed to help, but the primary responsibility is on the cornerback to not get toasted in the first place. If the cornerback can blame the safety when he gets toasted, then the cornerback never gets the blame for not doing their job. How does that make sense?

If we're in the nickel defense and Henry jumps an out route, and Reggie Brown runs an out-and-up and burns Henry deep for a 50 yard touchdown, I'd certainly blame Henry more than I'd blame Hamlin or Watkins, whichever safety is supposed to help over the top. The safety should get some of the blame for not helping better, but the cornerback gets more of the blame because he was the one who was supposed to not get burned in the first place.

It doesn't matter who the players are. If you're the primary cover guy and you get burned, you deserve more of the blame than the guy who was supposed to help you in case you get burned. If Roy is playing dime linebacker in the box against a tight end and gets burned deep by the tight end, shouldn't he get more of the blame than the safety who is supposed to help over the top?

I don't see how you can possibly think otherwise.

Also, MacMahan talks about Anthony Henry being "left on an island" after Roy Williams bites on a Drew Brees play fake. The pass was for 50 yards. Williams, in deep patrol again, hung his corner out to dry.

Watch the play. Roy never bit on the play fake, he simply got beaten to the corner by the receiver. And he was close enough that he made the tackle after the catch. Henry wasn't anywhere close to the receiver (about 9 yards behind him), so I don't know how anyone can say Henry was left on an island. When Henderson made the catch, Roy was right there, and Henry wasn't even on the TV screen.

According to Norm Hitzges, Brian Stewart told him after the draft this:

When Hitzges asked Stewart if drafting and getting Pacman would allow them to get Roy Williams off the field more, Stewart paused, and said "yes".

I guess I need a link for that one, too. Huh?

That interview has been discussed several times, and that's a very loose interpretation of what Stewart actually said. He never said Roy would be off the field more.

 

[AdamJT13]

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news.cfm?id=725DB0F5-AB25-7BD9-5A33F68D8C7B6129

Here is the complete quote from Roy Williams on the Moss TDs. The USA Today one left out the end of what he said. Again, his own words.

"I saw Moss just blazing down the seam, so I tried to help out, but I wasn't able to make a play on him. Point blank", Williams said after the game. "I should have read it faster. I should have taken the proper angle to get my hands up on the ball. It's my fault. I take total blame for that. So, I'll take all the blame. I don't care".

Roy Williams (on the two Santana Moss TDs)

I put this up, because Williams is actually taking the blame. This is something that he doesn't do very often. He said exactly what I have been arguing.

Like I said before, Roy was blaming himself for not making the play on the second TD. But Roy wasn't the one who was responsible for covering Moss. He wasn't even responsible for sitting back there as the "deep help," either. He was mad at himself for not being able to go above and beyond his responsibilities on that play. That's why he said, "Honestly those weren't my plays, but yeah, I took it upon myself to say that's my fault."

Bill Parcells was asked, "Roy Williams, on those last two plays, was he supposed to be there and have deep help there?"

Parcells' reply: "Well, no, it wasn't really his play. OK? It wasn't really his play. So ... I was asked that question after the game, and I told you whose play it was." (That would be Aaron Glenn.)

Even Jennifer Floyd Engel, an avowed Roy-basher, reported that, "everybody at Valley Ranch says Williams was not responsible for Santana Moss," and "Glenn admits to being responsible for both of Washington's touchdowns."

 

[Hostile]

Can I just say something here.

I know we are all on edge when it comes to discussing Roy.

To get this worked up about an issue involving our sports team just tells me that the end result is really us just wanting the best from the players so that we can win a championship.

When we perceive that 'any' of the players are not giving it their all, doesn't matter whether that opinion is right or wrong, we get worked up into a frenzy.

I am applauding the effort on both sides of this thing because it really just shows that even when fighting with 'our own' we are some of the most passionate fans on the planet.

I think Jerry Jones would be proud of this thread.

He certainly wouldn't agree with everything in it, but he could probably appeciate it and relate to it because it clearly shows that we love this freaking team just as much as he does.

I do agree with this. Love the topic or hate it, this has been an interesting thread.

 

[TheCount]

Can I just say something here.

I know we are all on edge when it comes to discussing Roy.

To get this worked up about an issue involving our sports team just tells me that the end result is really us just wanting the best from the players so that we can win a championship.

When we perceive that 'any' of the players are not giving it their all, doesn't matter whether that opinion is right or wrong, we get worked up into a frenzy.

I am applauding the effort on both sides of this thing because it really just shows that even when fighting with 'our own' we are some of the most passionate fans on the planet.

I think Jerry Jones would be proud of this thread.

He certainly wouldn't agree with everything in it, but he could probably appeciate it and relate to it because it clearly shows that we love this freaking team just as much as he does.

I guess passionate is one way to put it, I could think up a few more adjectives to describe us that aren't as flattering.

I've been around a few forums, although only two of them are sports related, and I've never seen the kind of in-fighting and petty, meaningless arguments that happen here.

Sometimes it's fun, I've certainly taken part in a few, other times it just makes you want to skip entire threads.

What's even worse is that there can be a thread like this one arguing over a player or topic, and someone comes up with the brilliant idea to start ANOTHER one on the very same page. :

 

[Idgit]

I guess passionate is one way to put it, I could think up a few more adjectives to describe us that aren't as flattering.

I've been around a few forums, although only two of them are sports related, and I've never seen the kind of in-fighting and petty, meaningless arguments that happen here.

Sometimes it's fun, I've certainly taken part in a few, other times it just makes you want to skip entire threads.

What's even worse is that there can be a thread like this one arguing over a player or topic, and someone comes up with the brilliant idea to start ANOTHER one on the very same page. :

The level of bickering and in-fighting on this board is pretty common for the sports boards I visit. The tone of the bickering here is a lot more good-natured than most, though. There are a few posters who I suspect really don't like each other, but generally everyone gets along.

I'm guilty of getting out of hand with condescending insults at times. You start out just trying to keep the board a smart place to get good information, and then somehow devolve into pointed comparisons to high-functioning retards. It's a slippery slope. All it takes is one low-brow knuckle-dragging Skins fan to come sauntering along with a Jason Campbell comment to put everything right, though.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

The level of bickering and in-fighting on this board is pretty common for the sports boards I visit. The tone of the bickering here is a lot more good-natured than most, though. There are a few posters who I suspect really don't like each other, but generally everyone gets along.

Ya think ? Also, I would bet next week's paycheck that it is more than just a few (giggles as I think of the biggest rivalries on the board) . Off the top of my head, I know at least three individuals on this board that wouldn't mind seeing me banished to the endless depths of hell .

Also, you are spot-on about the level of bickering. Arguing is what humans do and that point is quantified a 100 times over when you get a group of folks together for the sole purpose of talking about something that is deemed precious and dear to them.

If everybody agreed, this would be an extremely boring place.

 

[Idgit]

Ya think ? Also, I would bet next week's paycheck that it is more than just a few (giggles as I think of the biggest rivalries on the board) . Off the top of my head, I know at least three individuals on this board that wouldn't mind seeing me banished to the endless depths of hell .

Also, you are spot-on about the level of bickering. Arguing is what humans do and that point is quantified a 100 times over when you get a group of folks together for the sole purpose of talking about something that is deemed precious and dear to them.

If everybody agreed, this would be an extremely boring place.

I generally only have problems with posters who are not very smart and who have no desire to learn from the posters here who are. But those guys go on ignore pretty quickly, and everything is good again. The posters who get in your face and bring the goods I really appreciate. There are a dozen or so quality snipers on this board who crack me up, too.

I agree there's little point in posting on a message board where everyone agrees with you.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

I generally only have problems with posters who are not very smart and who have no desire to learn from the posters here who are. But those guys go on ignore pretty quickly, and everything is good again. The posters who get in your face and bring the goods I really appreciate. There are a dozen or so quality snipers on this board who crack me up, too.

I agree there's little point in posting on a message board where everyone agrees with you.

See, I don't think I get bothered by all of that stuff. I do not even know where the ignore button is and I refuse to use it.

Not to be cynical but this messageboard is a perfect place for folks to understand the concept that not everyone is going to like you and agree with you.

There are more than a few posters on here who I don't pay much attention too, but I will never put them on ignore because in general, I think you always want to hear what the "other side" has to say, so that you will be prepared for when they come at you, no matter how asinine their contentions may be.

 

[Idgit]

See, I don't think I get bothered by all of that stuff. I do not even know where the ignore button is and I refuse to use it.

Not to be cynical but this messageboard is a perfect place for folks to understand the concept that not everyone is going to like you and agree with you.

There are more than a few posters on here who I don't pay much attention too, but I will never put them on ignore because in general, I think you always want to hear what the "other side" has to say, so that you will be prepared for when they come at you, no matter how asinine their contentions may be.

See, that's exactly why I use mine liberally. I do the same thing in the real world, though. If you're not interesting, I'm not interested. And dumb and committed is not very interesting.

 

[DallasEast]

I can't believe that someone actually allowed themselves to be competely discredited by AdamJT13 about quarters coverage after I posted Bob Davie's lengthy tutorial about that very same subject. Amazing.

 

[Hostile]

I can't believe that someone actually allowed themselves to be competely discredited by AdamJT13 about quarters coverage after I posted Bob Davie's lengthy tutorial about that very same subject. Amazing.

That was a great post BTW. I learned a lot from it. Thank you.

 

[DallasEast]

That was a great post BTW. I learned a lot from it. Thank you.

You're welcome. Saaaaay, can you start a collection fund to reimburse my ESPN Insider subscription? Money's tight (daughter in college and all).

j/k

 

[Bach]

You're welcome. Saaaaay, can you start a collection fund to reimburse my ESPN Insider subscription? Money's tight (daughter in college and all).

j/k

Thank goodness you put the j/k and because I was about to send some money.

 

[cowboyjoe]

i think this says it all why roy has regressed each of the last 3 years;

ESPN: Mosely Tuesday Conversation with Woody
Posted by ESPN.com's Matt Mosley

Welcome back from Memorial Day weekend. While you were out, I wrote a column about Cowboys safety Roy Williams and his uncertain future. One of Williams' closest friends and mentors Darren Woodson said a lot of interesting things that didn't end up in the column because we wanted to keep it under 3,000 words.

In the past, Woodson has been one of Williams' biggest defenders, but during our 30-minute conversation Saturday, he seemed genuinely worried about the former first-round draft choice. In the column, Woodson blames himself for not teaching Williams more when he had the chance. Woodson, an NFL analyst for ESPN, saw his career end abruptly because of a back injury in 2004 and only spent two seasons playing next to Williams.

"There's been so much negative press about Roy the last two years," Woodson said. "And Roy is a sensitive guy. I knew he's reading the papers, and they're blasting him. It's a hypersensitive situation."

When the two played together in 2002-03, Woodson talked to Williams about not avoiding the media after games. When he started to see Williams sneak out of the locker room quickly in 2004, he called him out on it. Looking back, he doesn't think Williams had enough time to grow up as a football player.

"When I first got drafted, I didn't start," Woodson said. "I played in the nickel and was even the third corner at times. I learned to play two or three different positions and I didn't have all the hype that Roy had."

Woodson was shocked when he heard about a recent radio interview in which Williams admitted that he was hoping the ball wouldn't be thrown his way in certain coverages.

"That didn't sound like Roy," Woodson said. "He's not lacking in confidence. When we you used to play together, we said that the quarterback better not look our way. It was a confidence that Deion [Sanders] had instilled in me."

The other thing Woodson's concerned about is that he's hearing Williams is the first one to leave the facility after practices. It's certainly not the player he knew.

"I can't see it," he said. "I used to make his [expletive] sit there and watch film after practice."

There are some within the organization who think Williams' days are numbered in Dallas. Since he just signed a lucrative, long-term deal two years ago, it would be a shocking fall for a player who was supposed to change the game.
__________________

 

[cowboyjoe]

what im referring to, when darren woodson caught roy sneaking out of practice in 2004 and darren called him on it, and when darren said, i made him sit his .... you know what and study film, thats says it all

this guy was suppose to be a leader on the field, now we know why he doesnt call coverages, he doesnt study or work at on the field and in the film room,

 

[Maikeru-sama]

what im referring to, when darren woodson caught roy sneaking out of practice in 2004 and darren called him on it, and when darren said, i made him sit his .... you know what and study film, thats says it all

this guy was suppose to be a leader on the field, now we know why he doesnt call coverages, he doesnt study or work at on the field and in the film room,

So are we to assume that Woodson is the only veteran that has had to show a young rookie the ropes?

I think you are reaching a little bit here.

It would be interesting to see what the coaches at Oklahoma think as far as Roy's diligence and study habits.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I generally only have problems with posters who are not very smart and who have no desire to learn from the posters here who are. But those guys go on ignore pretty quickly, and everything is good again. The posters who get in your face and bring the goods I really appreciate. There are a dozen or so quality snipers on this board who crack me up, too.

I agree there's little point in posting on a message board where everyone agrees with you.

that's me to a T, buddeh

 

[BigDFan5]

When the two played together in 2002-03, Woodson talked to Williams about not avoiding the media after games. When he started to see Williams sneak out of the locker room quickly in 2004, he called him out on it.

what im referring to, when darren woodson caught roy sneaking out of practice in 2004 and darren called him on it, and when darren said, i made him sit his .... you know what and study film, thats says it all

this guy was suppose to be a leader on the field, now we know why he doesnt call coverages, he doesnt study or work at on the field and in the film room,

Read much?