Williams facing hazy future - Mosley - 5/24/08

starfrombirth

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Yakuza Rich;2093762 said:
Decent? He had a great season in 2005.

Of course you wouldn't know it because the media loved to blame him for every big play that year. The best example was in the Seahawks game in week 7. There was a big pass play caught by Jerammy Stevens over the middle in that game. Who got the blame? Roy Williams. Who was covering on the play? Willie Pile. But what was even more shameful was Roy was BLITZING on that play and hit Hasselbeck right as he threw it.

It's the same like Toomer's TD in the playoff game. Anthony Henry was covering and both Henry and Ellis missed tackles, but whom did the camera pan to and who got blamed? Roy Williams.

I love how Mosely says that Roy is "amazingly thin skinned." The media's obsession with blaming Williams for every big play would drive just about anybody nuts.



YAKUZA
could probably name 10 more incidents where the camera pans to Roy for some reason when he's not even involved in the play

Hey YR, good morning. I think in that particular game, he isn't being blamed for the same thing as Henry and Ellis. Roy was the safety on that play( obviously) and he was in a position to stop the play. But instead of laying the lumber like we've come to expect, he slid off of him like a wet noodle. That's my issue with him anyways. I know that he isn't great in coverage but my complaint is the absence of the massive hits that made him famous.
 

starfrombirth

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Goldenrichards83;2093770 said:
In breaking down the film, he's done a lot more good than bad," Stewart said. "He's very capable of doing everything we ask him to do. I believe he had 100 tackles, and that's a busy guy. If we can get him to stop horse-collaring guys, I think he's very, very capable of playing at a high level in our system."

Thank you Stew. Many(including myself) have been saying this for quite some time now but we are labeled Roy apologist.

This is NOT a validation of Williams, you realize. He didn't say that "Roy is very often blamed for someone else's mistake.". He's one of the highest paid safeties in the league. He is SUPPOSED to be a lot more good than bad. The problem is that there is a noticeable lack of big hits and at least a perceived inability to cover which means more and more qb's are going to attack him. In this light, is it hard to understand why that particular issue is making people nervous? It becomes a vicious circle. People perceive that you are bad in coverage. You get burned for a few touchdowns. You start to feel that you are bad in coverage and talk about it. Your teamates and qb's know that you feel that way and then your teamates try to compensate for your weakness leaving their own responsibilities uncovered and the qb's attack you even more, thereby scoring more touchdowns on you.... See the problem?
 

starfrombirth

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Hostile;2093894 said:
It's like every writer in the DFW area feels compelled to do a Roy story since everyone else is.

There are 52 other players on this team and a lot we don't know about our Draft picks yet. Heaven forbid they actually bring us something interesting.

Between the Roy stories and the stupid paparazzi crap I am beyond fed up with the off season. I actually was excited when there was a new Pacman wrinkle a couple of days ago.

I actually agree with you. I would like to hear about some of the rookies as well. I do believe we've beaten the Roy W horse to death.
 

WDN

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starfrombirth;2093951 said:
I actually agree with you. I would like to hear about some of the rookies as well. I do believe we've beaten the Roy W horse to death.

As long as he is playing the way he is there is no such thing as beating Roy W to death.
 

Hoofbite

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WDN;2093955 said:
As long as he is playing the way he is there is no such thing as beating Roy W to death.

Until the season starts and people can see how he is playing, I'd say it's been beaten well past dead.
 

dooomsday

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Once face of the franchise, Williams facing hazy future

By Matt Mosley
ESPN.com
(Archive)



Updated: May 24, 2008 IRVING, Texas -- To know Roy Williams is to misunderstand him.
Six years ago, he was given the opportunity to become the face of the Dallas Cowboys. As a rookie in 2002, he was one of the few bright spots on a 5-11 team, and his No. 31 jersey quickly overtook No. 22 in the Texas Stadium crowd.
But now as the Cowboys prepare to christen a $1 billion stadium in 2009, there's a good chance Williams won't be around for the grand opening. How could a player with so much promise fall off the map? Well, it's important to go back to the beginning.
In his first two years, Williams became one of the most feared players in the NFL because of his punishing style. Turns out, though, that Jerry Jones and his scouting department overlooked flaws in Williams' game leading up to the 2002 draft.
[+] Enlarge
Paul Jasienski/Getty Images
Roy Williams is a perennial Pro Bowl selection, but even he has admitted to doubts about his pass coverage capabilities.


In recent conversations with men who were privy to those discussions, I learned that former secondary coach Clancy Pendergast, now the defensive coordinator for the Arizona Cardinals, had serious concerns about Williams' ability to learn the defense. When he traveled to the Oklahoma campus and put Williams on the dry erase board, he quickly learned that it would be a difficult transition for the college All American. Veteran scout Jim Hess, a former college coach, agreed with Pendergast's assessment.
Jones and his right-hand man, Larry Lacewell, were able to look past that potential flaw because they knew Williams would be playing next to Darren Woodson, one of the league's best safeties.
The Cowboys thought Williams could be much like John Lynch was in the vaunted Tampa 2 defense, but even more dynamic. And for the first two years of his NFL career, they were rewarded. Playing next to Woodson in 2002 and 2003, Williams was a bone-crunching playmaker. Running backs and receivers flinched when they sensed his arrival.
Williams began his string of five Pro Bowl appearances in 2003, although you can make a strong argument that the past couple have been on name-recognition alone. The 2004 season started off with a bust when QB Quincy Carter was released only days into training camp. The story line that got buried was that Woodson's injured back was preventing him from practicing. The Cowboys placed him on the physically unable to perform list and hoped for the best.
But it was apparent from the start that the odds were against Woodson, and he was eventually forced into retirement. Suddenly Williams was thrust into a leadership role in a secondary that included cornerback Terence Newman, a first-round pick in 2003, and safety Keith Davis, who had starred in NFL Europe the previous spring.
"I take a lot of blame for what Roy has had to endure," said Woodson, now an ESPN analyst.
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He could change the whole outlook of a game because of his ability to separate players from the ball. But we probably kept it too simple for him.
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--Darren Woodson, ESPN analyst and former Cowboys defensive back, on tutoring the young Roy Williams

"[Former defensive coordinator Mike] Zimmer and myself just wanted him to be a football player when he first came into the league. He didn't have to think about where he needed to be because we made the scheme pretty simple. He could just come downhill and wreak havoc. I'd never seen a player with that type of ferocity. But I didn't involve him in what the corners were doing and some of the linebackers' gaps. He could change the whole outlook of a game because of his ability to separate players from the ball. But we probably kept it too simple for him."
In Woodson's defense, he thought he had at least two more seasons left in the league before his injury forced him from the game.
"I would have approached it differently if I'd known," Woodson said. "He looked at me like a big brother, and we were always honest with each other. He used to ask me why I was in such a bad mood during practice, and I'd say, 'This is the way I am in practice.' We could say anything."
Though he has the capacity to be gracious and outgoing, Williams -- who had an excused absence from recent Cowboys' voluntary workouts -- often has been a brooding presence in the locker room. A few years ago, a Dallas-area TV station paid him a large amount of money to appear every Sunday night during the season. In a rare moment, Williams once questioned his teammates' effort following a loss and suggested some of them had surrendered. But when reporters swirled at his locker the next day, Williams immediately backed off those comments.
It has almost become cliché to bash Williams' performance in Dallas. But the side of the player that not enough people hear about is his charitable work. Members of the organization say he donates vast amounts of money to underprivileged children around Christmastime, but for the most part he does it in a private manner.
But for all the good he does, he's fallen out of favor with the local media, not because of his play, but because of his pettiness. When a Dallas Morning News reporter approached his locker after a road win against the New York Giants last season, Williams angrily told him that he wouldn't be allowed to ride the team plane home because he'd picked against the Cowboys in the newspaper. Since the paper's policy always has been to fly separately from the team, it was moot. But it didn't prevent Williams from causing a scene in the locker room. When another Dallas reporter wrote that Williams wasn't meeting expectations three years ago, the player responded by authoring a rambling note that contained several expletives. He had it posted during an open locker room session. Williams never officially admitted to writing the note, but teammates pointed to him. All of this serves as a backdrop for the latest chapter in Williams' strange path. About a month ago, he went on Michael Irvin's local radio show and admitted that he often hoped quarterbacks wouldn't throw the ball his way in certain coverages. Head coach Wade Phillips quickly tried to do damage control, saying he wasn't troubled by Williams' comment and had a different interpretation of what the player said. But behind closed doors, there is growing concern about Williams' future at Valley Ranch. Despite being the eternal optimist, Jones, I've been told, is open to the idea of a future without Roy Williams. [+] Enlarge
AP Photo/Tony Gutierrez
Cowboys owner Jerry Jones (left), seen here with Williams in a 2005 photo, recently has been publicly encouraging regarding the safety's future in Dallas.


If that's true, it is a pretty remarkable development. When Jones hired Phillips to take over, he thought Phillips' 3-4 defense would be a much better fit for Williams. The new coaching staff talked about putting Williams in a position to do what he does best: making plays downhill. In 2006, he had been beaten repeatedly on deep balls. In the defense run by Phillips and defensive coordinator Brian Stewart, Williams didn't get beat deep, but still ended up allowing five touchdowns. Not long after Williams confessed to Irvin, Cowboys defensive end Greg Ellis came to Williams' defense in a national radio interview. Ellis said he was concerned because Williams was choosing to work out by himself at 6 a.m. and wasn't interacting with his teammates. He also shared that the safety had been frustrated with having to learn a new 3-4 scheme, which went directly against some of the comments Williams made when Phillips was hired. At some point, Stewart finally had enough. He ordered a meeting at Valley Ranch with Williams earlier this month and said it was very productive. Williams later agreed with that assessment. He believed the media and the coaching staff were against him, but he's apparently more comfortable for the time being. And Stewart says Williams probably received too much criticism last season. "In breaking down the film, he's done a lot more good than bad," Stewart said. "He's very capable of doing everything we ask him to do. I believe he had 100 tackles, and that's a busy guy. If we can get him to stop horse-collaring guys, I think he's very, very capable of playing at a high level in our system."
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We've got to drill him on his approach to the ball carrier. A lot of it is 'want to.' If I get suspended or fined $100,000, I'm going to want some alternatives to that style of tackle.
dropQuoteEnd.gif


-- Dallas Cowboys defensive coordinator Brian Stewart on trying to break Roy Williams' horse-collar tackling habit

Stewart said Williams has a good feel for defending against the inside run and talked about him "coming downfield heavy-handed," which is another way of saying that Williams remains a punishing defender. The horse collar topic is one that will follow him the rest of his career. After all, he was the man who "inspired" the 15-yard penalty, and it's still not out of his system.
"We've got to drill him on his approach to the ball carrier," Stewart said. "A lot of it is 'want to.' If I get suspended or fined $100,000, I'm going to want some alternatives to that style of tackle." Most of Williams' teammates gathered this past week for organized team activities. Williams had an excused absence because he'd already planned a family trip before the dates were released. Unfortunately, a couple of his teammates weren't quite as understanding. I talked to two players who were shocked Williams didn't show up -- especially in light of recent events. One player, a starter on defense, said that most players assume that "voluntary" OTAs will occur in mid- to late May and plan their schedules accordingly. They want to be supportive of Williams, but he's not making it easy. There are even rumblings at Valley Ranch that Williams could be released sometime after June 1, but a high-ranking member of the organization told me that he will be on the roster for the entire 2008 season. After that, all bets are off. Jones recently made some glowing remarks about Williams' future at a team golf outing. And I do believe that Jones still is rooting for Williams because his release would complete a remarkable fall for someone who was supposed to be one of the best safeties in the game. Is there a market for Roy Williams? We'll save that for another column.
 

CrazyCowboy

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All this negative press about Roy has me really HOPING he turns it around
 

CrazyCowboy

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Roy should do better in his 2nd full year of learning the Phillips packages and schemes
 

lspain1

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Hostile;2093894 said:
It's like every writer in the DFW area feels compelled to do a Roy story since everyone else is.

There are 52 other players on this team and a lot we don't know about our Draft picks yet. Heaven forbid they actually bring us something interesting.

Between the Roy stories and the stupid paparazzi crap I am beyond fed up with the off season. I actually was excited when there was a new Pacman wrinkle a couple of days ago.

Yes, the media "group-think" thing is in full operation....the "Summer of Roy" continues. :mad:
 

dooomsday

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starfrombirth;2093990 said:
** Merge mods..please merge **

LOL. Are you all Roy'ed out?

I didnt see this article posted and thought it offered some different insight from an unbiased source. FYI.
 

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Cowboyz88;2093791 said:
No, you guys are called apologists because you guys are so hell-bent on finding a kernel of praise in regards to Roy which you then use to justify your pro-Roy stance and then pass off as gospel. Geez man, the article was 80% critical of Roy (which isn't good), but you manage to find one of the few positive things, then act as if you've "won."

When it comes to Roy, you guys seem to lose even the most basic of rational thought. Mosley clearly paints a picture of Roy's miniscule mental make-up when he, much like a 4-year old would do, told the reporter to stay off the play because HE PICKED AGAINST THE COWBOYS?!?!?!!

THIS is the guy that you guys want to defend? Of all the Cowboys, Roy is the horse you want to pick in the race?

Then somehow, you use this quote from Stewart as if it's law?

Dude, Roy freaked out when a reporter picked against the Cowboys, so wouldn't it be plausible that he'd flat our lose his freaking mind if he knew a coach said a bad word about him????

But, you go ahead — as you (and a few others) always do — and pretend all is well in Roy's world. Meanwhile, us in the real world will wait for the day that he is no longer a Cowboy while cheering on other players who are actually worthy of their praise and pay.

I have NEVER heard anyone say on this forum that Roy Williams had a great season last year. But, the problem is that to many on here act like Roy Williams is the worst safety in the NFL and should not even be in the NFL.

If you problem with Roy is that he had a decent season the last year and a half or two years, and great seasons are what we are paying him for. Then I have no issues what so ever with what you are saying, you are absolutely 100% correct. But, to act like Roy Williams even in his "bad" seasons is not atleast an average NFL safety that is where the issues come up.

The problem is most of this board blames Roy Williams for the Commanders beating the Saints, or that it is Roy Williams fault that the Cleveland Browns had a good year last year.
 

Alexander

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Double Trouble;2093947 said:
Perhaps if he wouldn't point at his teammates when the other team scores and he's in the vicinty.....

All he is doing is trying to help us out and show who really is at fault and he's misunderstood.:rolleyes:

If he'd simply tap his chest once, I would gain instant respect. But I guess we will all have to wait for the play where he is responsible, right?

Deion Sanders would make that a habit when it was obvious he made a mental mistake. Teammates see that and respect it. As a fan, I know I do.
 

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Cowboyz88;2093791 said:
No, you guys are called apologists because you guys are so hell-bent on finding a kernel of praise in regards to Roy which you then use to justify your pro-Roy stance and then pass off as gospel.

and the roy bashers will use any nugget of words or phrases they can use to show why roy sucks.

i see the bashers doing this much more and those tired of trying to inject logic OF WHICH the bashers simply refuse to have any part of. mind made up and they'll wait for the next nugget to come along and prove it.

it all gets old, dude.
 

iceberg

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AdamJT13;2093937 said:
Parcells and Aaron Glenn already said you're wrong. (Myth No. 30.)

But I'm sure they were just lying to protect Roy, right? (Myth No. 36.)

proven, rampage. now will you man up and say you were wrong or will you duck and cover like most bashers till another myth comes up you can rally around?
 

iceberg

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Hostile;2093894 said:
It's like every writer in the DFW area feels compelled to do a Roy story since everyone else is.

and it's so in vogue to bash roy now people just want to get their jabs in during this "cool" period. mob-rage is just idiotic.
 

cowboyed

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Yakuza Rich;2093750 said:
Mosely's article doesn't explain why Roy played so well in 2005 and the first half of 2006. I give him credit, and I'm usually anti-Mosely, for trying, but I'm still waiting for somebody to explain the dropoff from mid-2006.

One thing I did notice about this year in particular is he did seem uncomfortable and hesitent in Phillips' scheme. That would definitely be a result of not being able to grasp the defense.




YAKUZA

This is what disappoints me the most about Roy Williams. I can understand the struggling performances but the attitude and not making the extra effort to learn is what is so troubling. Zach Thomas from what I have read is devouring the playbook and even going over past defensive notes when Miami played us, and is hard studying film for that matter.

Felix Jones during OTA's was hitting it hard in the film room and officially, he hasn't been signed yet.

Maybe it's not about being able to grasp the defense, but more so not making enough of an effort to grasp the defense to begin with. I recently learned that he is dyslexic but wouldn't studying film or seeking special tutoring or coaching help minimize his affliction or improve his learning ability?

I don't think the criticism over him going on vacation during OTA's is invalid either. Roy supporters throw in that he was excused by the coaching staff. But come on don't you think they would rather have him over at Valley Ranch picking up the nuances of Wade's 3-4 or getting some special learning attention? It is not that he couldn't reschedule vacation with the remaining downtime this year. It isn't like the players have not been off prior to the OTA's either.

What were the coaches going to state - we are disappointed that Roy yet again didn't take advantage or make an effort to get back on the optimum productive path befitting of a star performer with a hefty extended contract?

I know it has been statistically reinforced in this forum that he is the tackling hot shot but he was selected in the top ten first round as a playmaker, and during his first few years that indeed personified Roy Williams.

Here Roy is in his prime and he should actually be getting better, not worse. I am all for keeping Roy on the roster this year and hoping he turns it around because as a fan right now I am not only very dissapointed in Roy but absolutely heartbroken. I hope this year he not only knocks the opposition on its behind but also obliterates my increasing disrespect of him.
 

Vtwin

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Don't worry. It's just more smoke.

There's no fire.

Really.

It's just more smoke.
 

Goldenrichards83

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Cowboyz88;2093791 said:
No, you guys are called apologists because you guys are so hell-bent on finding a kernel of praise in regards to Roy which you then use to justify your pro-Roy stance and then pass off as gospel. Geez man, the article was 80% critical of Roy (which isn't good), but you manage to find one of the few positive things, then act as if you've "won."

When it comes to Roy, you guys seem to lose even the most basic of rational thought. Mosley clearly paints a picture of Roy's miniscule mental make-up when he, much like a 4-year old would do, told the reporter to stay off the play because HE PICKED AGAINST THE COWBOYS?!?!?!!

THIS is the guy that you guys want to defend? Of all the Cowboys, Roy is the horse you want to pick in the race?

Then somehow, you use this quote from Stewart as if it's law?

Dude, Roy freaked out when a reporter picked against the Cowboys, so wouldn't it be plausible that he'd flat our lose his freaking mind if he knew a coach said a bad word about him????

But, you go ahead — as you (and a few others) always do — and pretend all is well in Roy's world. Meanwhile, us in the real world will wait for the day that he is no longer a Cowboy while cheering on other players who are actually worthy of their praise and pay.
Actually this is what we have been saying all along. See we actually watched and rewatched games and came to the conclusion that Roy isn't as bad as the lynch mob would have us believe. The only people that said Roy had a great season are the Roy bashers who think it helps their point by repeatedly trying to say it came out of our mouths. All along my position as well as others is that Roy doesn't deserve all the criticism that comes his way, Stew said exactly that. All along we have stated that Roy has been a major part of this defense being 9th overall and 6th against the run, Stew confirmed that in his comments. It kills you that what you spent all year on, bashing a guy constantly and his coach won't throw him under the bus as quickly as you will. He actually did more good than bad, not a ringing endorsement but the bashers would have you believe there was no good in Roy at all. Thanks Stew! Who is really the only person that matters when it comes to what someone thinks about Roy Williams.
 

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Mr Cowboy;2093860 said:
This is amazing, considering that he never blitzes...........but how many sacks, forced fumbles and interceptions does he have since?
That wasn't the question. The guy said Roy season on 05 was ok but I proved it was better than just okay. By the way he led all safties in turnovers in 06 as well.
 
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