Williams facing hazy future - Mosley - 5/24/08

[TheCount]

weren't they in june last year? dunno but i've heard more than once it was june.

but let's say they are always in may - why did romo schedule a gold tournament? yes he's quite the hero for cancelling, but if it's always set in stone, why did he do it? then, why does no one care he scheduled it during a time ANYONE would have known better to begin with?

cause romo is a fan-fav and williams is now a whipping boy.

I don't know that the two things coincide.

Romo scheduled something like Roy did because they both didn't know what time it was, contrary to what the article says, Romo decided to cancel his after he learned what was going on and Roy didn't.

Romo just got a huge contract, is a fan favorite, and still canceled.

Roy is an easy target, a whipping boy (as you said), and still didn't.

You can judge each individually and still come to the same conclusion. Now Roy has been very charitable, while Romo has given the appearance of being a party boy celebrity during his time off, so maybe Roy earned this time off while Romo has not.

 

[AdamJT13]

i'm not wrong.

You are wrong.

go watch the film. on one of those tds he looked to the other side of the field where the deep help was in position on that side(their was no reason to even look over there) he than let the opposing teams fastest wr get behind him. Aaron glenn was to blame too. but Roy was playing 20 yards off the ball and still let moss get by him. Parcells was probably trying to protect the mental midgets feelings from being hurt. I repeat watch the film.

Watching the film doesn't help if you don't know what you're watching.

So tell us, what was the coverage that was called, and what, exactly, were Roy's responsibilities? Be as specific as you can, please.

 

[firehawk350]

Cmon now Adam, this is about as slippery a slope as you can get on. So if Moss wasn't his responsibility, can you definitively say who was??? How do you assign blame? How about a TD given up where Roy isn't in the screen, what if Roy completely blew his assignment because he made the wrong read and covered the wrong guy? What if he thought he was playing the short zone (robber) when he was supposed to be playing the deep zone? It wouldn't look like it was Roy's fault at all...

Either way, you LOVE bringing out that we don't know the coverages and responsibilities but I remember very vividly last offseason you claimed Sean Taylor gave up more TDs than anybody else or something like that. Please, tell me, what were the coverages and responsibilities of the play calls where Sean got beaten deep. Be as specific as you can, please. I know I'm talking about a Commander, and you have a bit of a following here, so I don't expect any support but thought I would point out you bring out your plethora of stat and "analysis" when it suits you then claim no one knows what the heck is going on and it's impossible to assign blame when somebody goes against your adopted causes.

 

[Rampage]

You are wrong.



Watching the film doesn't help if you don't know what you're watching.

So tell us, what was the coverage that was called, and what, exactly, were Roy's responsibilities? Be as specific as you can, please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyxKxGNK0nU

3:24 is the td that Roy blew coverage on.

 

[AbeBeta]

weren't they in june last year? dunno but i've heard more than once it was june.

but let's say they are always in may - why did romo schedule a gold tournament? yes he's quite the hero for cancelling, but if it's always set in stone, why did he do it? then, why does no one care he scheduled it during a time ANYONE would have known better to begin with?

cause romo is a fan-fav and williams is now a whipping boy.

Again -- I point to his teammate's comments -- they suggested it was always at the same time and that they planned accordingly.

Romo scheduled something then realized he had a conflict and backed out. Roy scheduled something then realized he had a conflict and decided to not go to the OTAs.

Frankly if you are a guy who has a) complained about not fitting into the D and b) has had his commitment to the game questioned -- it seems a curious choice to miss this work. Actually, it doesn't seem curious, it seems consistent with the lack of commitment whispers.

 

[WDN]

Too much is being made of this. The coaches would have told him to be here if it really meant that much. This is not a thing to be concerned about unless you have an agenda.

It is his play on the field which is troublesome. I wish we could keep it to that. And in fact although I have been outspoken about his play, perhaps it is time to put this to rest and let the season judge his play and not us.

Don't think they can tell him to be there when it is voluntary but he knows otherwise. Just read what his teammates said....

Unfortunately, a couple of his teammates weren't quite as understanding. I talked to two players who were shocked Williams didn't show up -- especially in light of recent events. One player, a starter on defense, said that most players assume that "voluntary" OTAs will occur in mid- to late May and plan their schedules accordingly.

 

[AdamJT13]

Cmon now Adam, this is about as slippery a slope as you can get on. So if Moss wasn't his responsibility, can you definitively say who was???

Yes, I can, because the coverages have been explained before. I'm asking Rampage to explain what he's seeing.

How about a TD given up where Roy isn't in the screen, what if Roy completely blew his assignment because he made the wrong read and covered the wrong guy? What if he thought he was playing the short zone (robber) when he was supposed to be playing the deep zone? It wouldn't look like it was Roy's fault at all.

Exactly which play are you talking about? Or are you just speaking hypothetically? If that's the case, then there are all kinds of hypotheticals we could dream up to blame whomever we want for anything that happens, or to absolve anyone we want from any blame for anything.

Either way, you LOVE bringing out that we don't know the coverages and responsibilities

I've never said that. Lots of people know the coverages and the responsibilities. It's only some of the people that apparently don't (or don't care to know them).

but I remember very vividly last offseason you claimed Sean Taylor gave up more TDs than anybody else or something like that.

And I always cited the source for that -- STATS LLC, which is paid by NFL teams to keep track of those things. Are they always 100 percent accurate? No, but they're the only source there is.

 

[bbgun]

I have it on good authority that Roy spent a week in Hawaii last February. I also heard that it's possible for your family to go on vacation without you.

 

[AdamJT13]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyxKxGNK0nU

3:24 is the td that Roy blew coverage on.

Yes, we've all seen the plays before.

Now explain the coverage and Roy's responsibilities on the play. Be as specific as you can.

 

[AbeBeta]

I have it on good authority that Roy spent a week in Hawaii last February. I also heard that it's possible for your family to go on vacation without you.

I also heard that if you are off for 6 months that you've got a hell of a lot of flexibility in your schedule....

 

[Rampage]

Yes, we've all seen the plays before.

Now explain the coverage and Roy's responsibilities on the play. Be as specific as you can.

deep zone. he chose to go for the tightend even though the lb was underneath him and the other safety was over the top of him. he screwed up. you're a smart guy it's easy to see how he screwed up on that td.

 

[bbgun]

I also heard that if you are off for 6 months that you've got a hell of a lot of flexibility in your schedule....

Nah. Apparently it was May or bust.

 

[firehawk350]

Yes, I can, because the coverages have been explained before. I'm asking Rampage to explain what he's seeing.

Exactly which play are you talking about? Or are you just speaking hypothetically? If that's the case, then there are all kinds of hypotheticals we could dream up to blame whomever we want for anything that happens, or to absolve anyone we want from any blame for anything.

Hypothetical, however with roughly about 60-70 plays a game, 16 games a season that turns into 900+ plays a season from the defense so given the generalized nature, I don't think it's outlandish.

I've never said that. Lots of people know the coverages and the responsibilities. It's only some of the people that apparently don't (or don't care to know them).

Do you know them for any given play, or does STATS LLC? Do all the play calls go through them or what?



A

I've nd I always cited the source for that -- STATS LLC, which is paid by NFL teams to keep track of those things. Are they always 100 percent accurate? No, but they're the only source there is.

Only source there is, huh? Are you sure about that?

 

[cowboyjoe]

well, i look at it like this,

tommie harris a very good DT for bears is in last year of his contract i think

he wants to be paid more, but instead of holding out or missing OTAs etc,

harris said, i know i need to work out with my teammate, work hard to be the best,

also set an example to my teammates, that only hard work, studying film etc, preparing on the field during offseason will only make me better

as you all know tommie harris is a leader, he was drafted as a leader; so he works hard, doesnt miss any OTAs, studies film, etc,

but what does roy williams do, he misses 2 OTAs, now he misses a weeks worth of OTAs,

i feel that roy is like what mike lombardi said, a hollywood type player now, wont put in the extra time, and doesnt want to get hurt, so he blames everyone else but himself,

this is the last year most likely that roy williams is with the cowboys, unless they trade him to the bengals for chad wr;

im not trying to bash roy, i wished we had a charles haley type player that would haul roy williams in tow, and kick his rear end when he needed it, make roy accountable, but i dont think we have that type of player leader on the team;

again, just my opinion, but when you make 6.7 million in cap money and you regress the last 2-3 years, something is wrong,

now granted, maybe the best thing is for roy to go to the bengals in a swap player for player, so roy can reunite with defensive coordinator Zimmer, and they can play him in the 4-3 defense, or move him to will weakside linebacker;

that way would be good for us, and good for bengals, of course that may leave us at a hole with strong side safety; but something has to be done.

 

[firehawk350]

well, i look at it like this,

tommie harris a very good DT for bears is in last year of his contract i think

he wants to be paid more, but instead of holding out or missing OTAs etc,

harris said, i know i need to work out with my teammate, work hard to be the best,

also set an example to my teammates, that only hard work, studying film etc, preparing on the field during offseason will only make me better

as you all know tommie harris is a leader, he was drafted as a leader; so he works hard, doesnt miss any OTAs, studies film, etc,

but what does roy williams do, he misses 2 OTAs, now he misses a weeks worth of OTAs,

i feel that roy is like what mike lombardi said, a hollywood type player now, wont put in the extra time, and doesnt want to get hurt, so he blames everyone else but himself,

this is the last year most likely that roy williams is with the cowboys, unless they trade him to the bengals for chad wr;

im not trying to bash roy, i wished we had a charles haley type player that would haul roy williams in tow, and kick his rear end when he needed it, make roy accountable, but i dont think we have that type of player leader on the team;

again, just my opinion, but when you make 6.7 million in cap money and you regress the last 2-3 years, something is wrong,

now granted, maybe the best thing is for roy to go to the bengals in a swap player for player, so roy can reunite with defensive coordinator Zimmer, and they can play him in the 4-3 defense, or move him to will weakside linebacker;

that way would be good for us, and good for bengals, of course that may leave us at a hole with strong side safety; but something has to be done.

No way does the Bengals send you Chad Johnson for Roy Williams straight up. Probably not even with a 1st included.

 

[AbeBeta]

Nah. Apparently it was May or bust.

One question we can ask about OTAs is who else missed them.

Ken Hamlin -- contract situation -- pretty common, guys who don't have contracts aren't going to put themselves in situations where they might get hurt.

Terry Glenn -- injury - held out by the team but was present.

Roy Williams -- family vacation.

It shocks me that folks continue to defend Roy missing these.

 

[AdamJT13]

deep zone.

Wrong. It was quarters coverage.

he chose to go for the tightend even though the lb was underneath him and the other safety was over the top of him. he *****ed up.

Wrong again. Roy played it correctly., as has been explained many times by the players and coaches involved.

But of course, you think everyone is lying, so you're wallowing in ignorance.

 

[Rampage]

Wrong. It was quarters coverage.



Wrong again. Roy played it correctly., as has been explained many times by the players and coaches involved.

But of course, you think everyone is lying, so you're wallowing in ignorance.

he went for the TE who had a linebacker underneath and the other safety over the top. is that a myth too? you're wrong he didn't play it correctly

 

[bbgun]

One question we can ask about OTAs is who else missed them.

Ken Hamlin -- contract situation -- pretty common, guys who don't have contracts aren't going to put themselves in situations where they might get hurt.

Terry Glenn -- injury - held out by the team but was present.

Roy Williams -- family vacation.

It shocks me that folks continue to defend Roy missing these.

It's not so much his absence as his defiance and tone-deafness. Despite his flaws on the field, you could always state that he was a good teammate. Based on those quotes from his chums, that compliment is now in doubt.

 

[AdamJT13]

Hypothetical, however with roughly about 60-70 plays a game, 16 games a season that turns into 900+ plays a season from the defense so given the generalized nature, I don't think it's outlandish.

Like I said, it's not outlandish to dream up all sorts of hypotheticals to blame or absolve anyone for anything. And with a thousand plays per season, they must have happened sometime, right?

Only source there is, huh? Are you sure about that?

For touchdowns allowed by every defensive back in the NFL for 2006, STATS LLC is the only known source. Maybe someone else out there kept track of every play of every game, but they've never publicized any of the numbers. (ESPN.com's K.C. Joyner has done it before, but not for the 2006 season.)