Williams Overrated, counterpoint

[Bob Sacamano]

Roy Williams isn't even approaching Darren Woodson level at this point.

Roy is good, he just isn't as good as his minions would like you to believe.

and he's not as bad as your minions make him out to be...

 

[MichaelWinicki]

and he's not as bad as your minions make him out to be...

A linky perhaps on where I said Roy was bad?

 

[Bob Sacamano]

A linky perhaps on where I said Roy was bad?

I thought I said your minions...? hmm

 

[Cowboys Dad]

Okay lets draw this thread back on course with a classic Cowboys Dad Rant!

I get so sick to my stomach when people question the skills of the Cowboys defensive backs. This either stems from a complete lack of understanding of the situation, or absolute jealousy. Its funny that people lump the entire secondary into the same category with blatent disregard for reality.

Since this is a thread regarding Roy Williams, I will stick with him, however most of you have seen my comments regarding both Ant Henry and Terrence Newman. All of these players face the same problem. They are abundently talented players, superior to those on most teams at what they do. Unfortunately, because of the idiot who runs the defense, they are simply not allowed to do what they do.

There was a rumor, and thats all it was im sure that Dallas was working a deal with Baltimore one for one, RW for ED Reed. Now understand that I love Ed Reed, but that would have been the stupidest trade ever. Giving you the fact that Ed Reed could possibly play the Free Safety spot, and that Roys cover skills are pretty well suspect, IN SPACE, the two players are at far different overall levels. Ed Reed (As well as Sean Taylor and every other wannabe Roy Williams) is no Roy Williams. I gripe about this every year. However had that deal gone down noone would have been happier to see it than me, well of course other than Roy himself. See lost in all this bias is the fact that Mike Zimmer, the complete buffoon, dumber even than our resident rodent, doesnt know how to perform the simplest of coaching credos. Great coaches are men, or women, who put their players in the best position to use their skill sets. Clearly Ed Reed has a coaching staff who understands how to get Ed in position to make spectacular plays. I would absolutely love to see Baltimore coach Roy, or better yet, Id love to coach the Cowboys Defense.

Ed Reed and Sean Taylor are talented Safeties, but thats all they are is safeties. Roy Williams is a player who transcends a position, let me stress here, when hes used properly. The fact of the matter is, if the Cowboys would focus on cutting Roy loose the way other defenses cut their players loose Roy would change games week in and week out, not just occasionally. Roy is a down hill player. What do I mean by that? Well its not only important that the majority of his plays are designed to be in the box or in the opponents backfield, but that he is allowed to play with power going towards everything in front of him. Some dont even remember that when Dallas played against TO the Cowboys would lineup either Roy or Woody over TO because they were strong enough to influence where TO would go. Further Roy would be a much better cover guy if the defense were designed (As it would be in baltimore) in a manner that his responsibility in the passing game would either be lined up over by Roy, or he would simply run to his man as quickly as possible off the snap. Again playing downhill at a high rate of speed with ample opportunity for his athletic ability to either make a play or kill someone.

The single biggest weakness in Roys game clearly is reading and reacting in a zone of space as receivers run through that space. Case in point the Miami Thanksgiving game three years ago. Three times Chambers ran across Roys face, three times Roy should have either picked the ball off or killed chambers, three times Roy is standing in quicksand because hes thinking, "whats my read, whats my read, where is my receiver". I got a news flash for all those Roy bashers, shut up and learn what you are looking at. You are looking at a classic case that great, or even adequate coodinators would never do. Rather than maximizing Roys explosiveness the Cowboys very own scheme is built to expose the one thing Roy isnt dominant at. Crying shame but true.

That said, dont bag on the most superior athlete, and greatest football player listed at the safety position today. I simply hope that at some point, for just one season, someone somewhere just turns Roy loose on the league. All of the people trying to claim this guy or that guy is better than Roy would be left slobbering snot bubbles all overthemselves as Roy proceeded to have the kind of disruptive, record breaking season that hasnt been seen since the likes of lawrence taylor drew the attention of ofensive coodinators who schemed all week to prevent LT from destroying their gameplan from the first defensive series till the final gun, only to be left smashed and crying on Sunday nights. Anyone with any football acumen can see that when he gets a chance to do what he does he does it at a level unparalleled in the game, on the planet.

No Sean Taylor and Ed Reed are no Roy Williams, but we may never see the type of dominance that Roy could bring to the dance. Ill tell you two more things about Roy. First, even though he is so underutilyzed and misused you will never hear him complaining about it, see Roy is a good man, not like that piece of garbage Taylor, you know the Roy Williams wannabe. Second, hes also made himself become average at zones and route reading. Terrible that he is being misused, but the great player he is he is putting in the work to be the best he can at what he is not built to do.

So in closing let me just say if the day ever comes that the Cowboys lock Terrence Newman and Anthony Henry manup on the WR at the line of scrimmage and let these two dictate the tempo to WR with their press coverage abilities while freeing Roy to run down hill and seek his targets, heaven help the NFL, they will have to increase game day rosters and change their Qb depth policies. Teams would lose multiple RBs and multiple QBs each and every week. All while getting pummelled by the Cowboys defense who would break any substantial records there ever were. So overrated, not even close. Misused and made human when theres not a team on the planet who could hide from him if he was allowed to play the way his skills say he can, absolutely. IF you need proof I direct you to go and view film of his days at Oklahoma where Bob Stoops and his staff knew how to use Roy.

If I were fans and coaches of teams other than Dallas I would not poke roy with a stick like this article does I would simply call mike zimmer and thank him for keeping Roy out of the backfield of my team and all the others. After all, Zimmer is the only one who could and does this. Dont consider Roy a great safety, just consider him one of the greatest football players to ever put on a helmet and shoulder pads. That way you wont keep making yourself look stupid by trying to compare what Roy is to what Ed Reed is.

 

[Clove]

I have one thing to say about this subject, and I didn't read the entire thread so someone may have posted it too.

Look at what RW does when he has scrubbs around him, and then look at RW in the Pro Bowl with talent around him,where he was destroying WR's all over the field.

I'd rather a guy pick the ball off from me when I was a receiver, than a guy to knock me the **** out!!

 

[AbeBeta]

Okay lets draw this thread back on course with a classic Cowboys Dad Rant!
I get so sick to my stomach when people question the skills of the Cowboys defensive backs. This either stems from a complete lack of understanding of the situation, or absolute jealousy. Its funny that people lump the entire secondary into the same category with blatent disregard for reality. Since this is a thread regarding Roy Williams, I will stick with him, however most of you have seen my comments regarding both Ant Henry and Terrence Newman. All of these players face the same problem. They are abundently talented players, superior to those on most teams at what they do. Unfortunately, because of the idiot who runs the defense, they are simply not allowed to do what they do.
There was a rumor, and thats all it was im sure that Dallas was working a deal with Baltimore one for one, RW for ED Reed. Now understand that I love Ed Reed, but that would have been the stupidest trade ever. Giving you the fact that Ed Reed could possibly play the Free Safety spot, and that Roys cover skills are pretty well suspect, IN SPACE, the two players are at far different overall levels. Ed Reed (As well as Sean Taylor and every other wannabe Roy Williams) is no Roy Williams. I gripe about this every year. However had that deal gone down noone would have been happier to see it than me, well of course other than Roy himself. See lost in all this bias is the fact that Mike Zimmer, the complete buffoon, dumber even than our resident rodent, doesnt know how to perform the simplest of coaching credos. Great coaches are men, or women, who put their players in the best position to use their skill sets. Clearly Ed Reed has a coaching staff who understands how to get Ed in position to make spectacular plays. I would absolutely love to see Baltimore coach Roy, or better yet, Id love to coach the Cowboys Defense.
Ed Reed and Sean Taylor are talented Safeties, but thats all they are is safeties. Roy Williams is a player who transcends a position, let me stress here, when hes used properly. The fact of the matter is, if the Cowboys would focus on cutting Roy loose the way other defenses cut their players loose Roy would change games week in and week out, not just occasionally. Roy is a down hill player. What do I mean by that? Well its not only important that the majority of his plays are designed to be in the box or in the opponents backfield, but that he is allowed to play with power going towards everything in front of him. Some dont even remember that when Dallas played against TO the Cowboys would lineup either Roy or Woody over TO because they were strong enough to influence where TO would go. Further Roy would be a much better cover guy if the defense were designed (As it would be in baltimore) in a manner that his responsibility in the passing game would either be lined up over by Roy, or he would simply run to his man as quickly as possible off the snap. Again playing downhill at a high rate of speed with ample opportunity for his athletic ability to either make a play or kill someone.
The single biggest weakness in Roys game clearly is reading and reacting in a zone of space as receivers run through that space. Case in point the Miami Thanksgiving game three years ago. Three times Chambers ran across Roys face, three times Roy should have either picked the ball off or killed chambers, three times Roy is standing in quicksand because hes thinking, "whats my read, whats my read, where is my receiver". I got a news flash for all those Roy bashers, shut up and learn what you are looking at. You are looking at a classic case that great, or even adequate coodinators would never do. Rather than maximizing Roys explosiveness the Cowboys very own scheme is built to expose the one thing Roy isnt dominant at. Crying shame but true.
That said, dont bag on the most superior athlete, and greatest football player listed at the safety position today. I simply hope that at some point, for just one season, someone somewhere just turns Roy loose on the league. All of the people trying to claim this guy or that guy is better than Roy would be left slobbering snot bubbles all overthemselves as Roy proceeded to have the kind of disruptive, record breaking season that hasnt been seen since the likes of lawrence taylor drew the attention of ofensive coodinators who schemed all week to prevent LT from destroying their gameplan from the first defensive series till the final gun, only to be left smashed and crying on Sunday nights. Anyone with any football acumen can see that when he gets a chance to do what he does he does it at a level unparalleled in the game, on the planet.
No Sean Taylor and Ed Reed are no Roy Williams, but we may never see the type of dominance that Roy could bring to the dance. Ill tell you two more things about Roy. First, even though he is so underutilyzed and misused you will never hear him complaining about it, see Roy is a good man, not like that piece of garbage Taylor, you know the Roy Williams wannabe. Second, hes also made himself become average at zones and route reading. Terrible that he is being misused, but the great player he is he is putting in the work to be the best he can at what he is not built to do.
So in closing let me just say if the day ever comes that the Cowboys lock Terrence Newman and Anthony Henry manup on the WR at the line of scrimmage and let these two dictate the tempo to WR with their press coverage abilities while freeing Roy to run down hill and seek his targets, heaven help the NFL, they will have to increase game day rosters and change their Qb depth policies. Teams would lose multiple RBs and multiple QBs each and every week. All while getting pummelled by the Cowboys defense who would break any substantial records there ever were. So overrated, not even close. Misused and made human when theres not a team on the planet who could hide from him if he was allowed to play the way his skills say he can, absolutely. IF you need proof I direct you to go and view film of his days at Oklahoma where Bob Stoops and his staff knew how to use Roy.
If I were fans and coaches of teams other than Dallas I would not poke roy with a stick like this article does I would simply call mike zimmer and thank him for keeping Roy out of the backfield of my team and all the others. After all, Zimmer is the only one who could and does this. Dont consider Roy a great safety, just consider him one of the greatest football players to ever put on a helmet and shoulder pads. That way you wont keep making yourself look stupid by trying to compare what Roy is to what Ed Reed is.

Why not use the enter key a bit?

You know, break up the text a bit so someone might be able to actually read it?

 

[thor_01]

though the debate is impossible to resolve as long as individuals are allowed to have their own opinions, i thought i would put my two cents worth in on this one where i usually ignore the Roy W debates............

over the 46 years i have watched the Dallas Cowboys i have had many favorites and many i thought were elite at their position, and had to develop a criteria for deciding the most elite as a player............

so not to argue with the points made already, add these dimensions to your criteria and if the player falls in all of them then he is elite to that position:

1.] Can you remember easily who played the position before he did, and is that players impact still comparable in your mind to the player now.....

2.] Has there been rule changes by the league in order to control a move specific to this player, [Nighttrain Lane, the horse collar tackle, Jack Tatum, the helmet to helmet rule, etc....]

3.] Have offenses made dramatic changes in order to allow for coverage of this player, or alloted special plays to take him out of a play.........

4.] Lastly the longevity of both the player and his abillities, did his play endear him to his fans for the duration of his career and after his retirement, and do they still make comparisons to him when talking about new players in that position..............

if all of these apply then he is truely an elite player, but if any category is lost, he may be good or great, but never elite......................