Williams Overrated, counterpoint

[Fletch]

Roy is one of the best safeties in football. Period. Not saying he IS the best, just one of them. I enjoy watching Roy play.

He brings electricity to the Cowboys every time he steps on the field.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

He brings electricity to the Cowboys every time he steps on the field.

He may...

But sometimes his extension cord doesn't stretch.

 

[MossBurner]

Roy is the most dominating safety near the box in the league.... he doesnt have to cover well, he isn't a coverage safety. He is meant to reak havok near the line..

Sounds like you're describing a linebacker. Safeties, by definition, need to be able to cover wide receivers to a large extent.

 

[1fisher]

He may...

But sometimes his extension cord doesn't stretch.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

Personally, JF, I think Roy is aiming for the hip, which hurts like hell. So there is still some intimidation for opposing receivers.

But nothing electrifies people as much as just blasting your man in the other direction. The hip shot may hurt more, but Roy needs to get back to the boom - I agree.

That brings me to another point because I do agree that it has to hurt like a mutha to get hit like that I am beggining to beleive that Roy has a little cheapshot on him.

My position on the value of RW is this I do not think he is worth Ed Reed money and could be replaced for less money with not much drop off in production from what I saw last year, hopefully he goes back to the old Roy, maybe he was hurt last year because those leg shots were very alarming.

 

[AbeBeta]

That's LITERALLY what I said. He had an outstanding rookie season and the last 3 years were pretty consistent.

Name me a Safety in the league where their stats improve each year and I'll conciede that point. Unfortunately, most Safeties have inconsistent stats from year to year. In Roy's situation, as with any players, its just as important to consider the factors that affect their play responsibilites.. such as playing with Darren Woodson his rookie season compared to his responsibilities while playing with all the "other" guys since Woodson.

Obviously stats don't improve every year for any player. And again, who he plays with doesn't matter because being an Elite player means you produce -- not that you could produce if you had better players around you.

Regarding improvement -- Dawkins, Reed, Polamalu, and Darius to name a few, were all safeties who have improved over their rookie campaign.

Players are supposed to get better after their rookie year and Roy hasn't. That gets him the overrated ranking.

And don't get semantic on the "consistency" thing. Unless you think that just being "consistent" means you are great. We've had a ton of consistent guys, Lynn Scott was very "consistent" too.

 

[superpunk]

That brings me to another point because I do agree that it has to hurt like a mutha to get hit like that I am beggining to beleive that Roy has a little cheapshot on him.

Maybe my coaches were just mean, heartless *******s, but I was always told to hit the other guy so he didn't want to get back up - so he didn't want the ball anymore. If you can hit a guy so he's a step slower on the next play, I'm all about it. It's football, after all - not hopskotch.

My position on the value of RW is this I do not think he is worth Ed Reed money and could be replaced for less money with not much drop off in production from what I saw last year, hopefully he goes back to the old Roy, maybe he was hurt last year because those leg shots were very alarming.

Maybe not Reed money, but certainly a number that's respectable, and indicative of what a game-changer he can be. I don't know what to say to the people who think he'd be easy to replace. Find me another safety that has matched his production the past few years - the list is short. Find me another safety that played a huge part in winning his team two games last year (Philly and first NYG). They don't grow on trees. If this team's pass rush is as good as it could be, I'd look out for one Roy Williams this fall.

 

[Bull Frog]

Sounds like you're describing a linebacker. Safeties, by definition, need to be able to cover wide receivers to a large extent.

Are you referring to Archuleta?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Regarding improvement -- Dawkins, Reed, Polamalu, and Darius to name a few, were all safeties who have improved over their rookie campaign.

Players are supposed to get better after their rookie year and Roy hasn't. That gets him the overrated ranking.

There ya go.

That's the thing that causes myself greatest "pause" when it comes to considering Roy Williams as even a top-5 strong safety-- his lack of improvement from his rookie season. And I dare say in some areas he's regressed.

Honestly after watching Roy during his rookie season I thought he would be "Darren Woodson" level by this point-- and he's not even close.

At this point he's rich man's "Archuleta".

 

[burmafrd]

How about Roy was at the top of the stats line and has pretty much stayed there? If you are already near the top, why claim that someone can do more? Maybe that is not possible? And so what if those named improved more- maybe they started out stinking the place up? A STRONG SAFETY is meant to support the run defense and and pass Defense is secondary. Roy is decent in coverage- which is all one should ask for a SS. Primary thing for a strong safety is can he support the run, does he hit hard, does he intimidate recievers and make them worry, especially going over the middle. ROY does all that as well as anyone in the league.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

How about Roy was at the top of the stats line and has pretty much stayed there? If you are already near the top, why claim that someone can do more? Maybe that is not possible? And so what if those named improved more- maybe they started out stinking the place up? A STRONG SAFETY is meant to support the run defense and and pass Defense is secondary. Roy is decent in coverage- which is all one should ask for a SS. Primary thing for a strong safety is can he support the run, does he hit hard, does he intimidate recievers and make them worry, especially going over the middle. ROY does all that as well as anyone in the league.

Sounds like someone making excuses for someone's inadequate play.

I think Paris Hilton needs a guy like you in her organization.

 

[burmafrd]

Sounds like someone looking for a reason to tear Roy down. Roy has been anything but inadequate- at least by most peoples definition. Ronnie Lott seems to think Roy is very good indeed- and I will take his word over ANYONE on this board.

 

[BlueStar22]

I don't get the the comparisons of Reed and RW. Look at the stats, they're pretty similar. Reed has more INT's and everyone knows that he is the better coverage safety. Look at Reed's sack numbers compared to RW. Does reed even have a sack? If he does, the number is minimal. If this doesn't prove that they're different types of safeties, what does?

 

[Renesis]

I don't get the the comparisons of Reed and RW. Look at the stats, they're pretty similar. Reed has more INT's and everyone knows that he is the better coverage safety. Look at Reed's sack numbers compared to RW. Does reed even have a sack? If he does, the number is minimal. If this doesn't prove that they're different types of safeties, what does?

http://img376.*************/img376/4047/safetystats5wh.jpg

 

[riggo]

oops.

 

[BlueStar22]

http://img376.*************/img376/4047/safetystats5wh.jpg

so the only significant difference is that he has almost double INT's than Roy yet he is "head and shoulders" above the rest?

 

[burmafrd]

Looking at the stats its clear one is a FS and one is a SS. Roy has scored more TD's, has more FF's, Sacks, AST's, Tackles and total tackles. Reed has more PD's, INT's. ALSO Roy has played in all games, while Reed has had an injury that cost him 6 games. Even if you figured each on a by game number, Roy still leads in most categories. So the one that claims reed is so much better has no numbers to back him up.

 

[BlueStar22]

Looking at the stats its clear one is a FS and one is a SS. Roy has scored more TD's, has more FF's, Sacks, AST's, Tackles and total tackles.

which is basically the point I was trying to make. They're different players. Both are good at what they do. One does one thing better than the other. IMO, Reed is not "head and shoulders" better than RW based on numbers.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Looking at the stats its clear one is a FS and one is a SS. Roy has scored more TD's, has more FF's, Sacks, AST's, Tackles and total tackles. Reed has more PD's, INT's. ALSO Roy has played in all games, while Reed has had an injury that cost him 6 games. Even if you figured each on a by game number, Roy still leads in most categories. So the one that claims reed is so much better has no numbers to back him up.

Where are the missed tackle numbers or TD passes given up?

 

[AbeBeta]

so the only significant difference is that he has almost double INT's than Roy yet he is "head and shoulders" above the rest?

How many Defensive Player of the Year Awards has each won?

Reed 1
RW 0

That's a number that backs up the statement that one is better at this stage.