Witten might be at the end of his rope

[BigStar]

Ridiculous ....... Witten has been more valuable this year than almost any other.

I agree Witten is integral but why do you say that after comparing it to the years he was such a great passing threat while also being an abv average run blocker (great in of itself)? I agree with the lack of false starts this season and his transformation into a superior run blocker while still catching his patented 3rd down conversions. But I don't know about best season yet? Or the the pass break up for that likely INT? Honest q no beef.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

As for leadership, phfffft!
Anyone can wave a towel. Anyone, if he sticks around lonk enough, can be a leader. When I think of Witten (not the way Romo think of him but in football terms) I think of consistency and overall production. Leadership half never come into my small mind as one of his grate assets. No business pays more for "leadership." Part of being a leadership is not halfing to say you are a leader and, of course, never halfing to say you're sorry.

(damn I am good)https://encrypted-tbn1.***NOT-ALLOWED***/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTy7-lZ4KUyHYIC5AVJv3kgyBzUe4CT7snL6ai7UcSaTKHIyMVQtineX-8

 

[Verdict]

I said best all around TE. Please provide a name of a TE that does everything as good as Witten? There's more to the position than making highlight catches and dunking the goalpost.

Maybe you should actually pay attention to his play instead of focusing on ESPN's top ten?

I think at one time you were right. I do think that he is "complete" in that he does everything pretty well, which is certainly not the case with many tight ends. Many can block, or catch but not both. But honestly, Witten doesn't do anything (physically) exceptionally well anymore. If you were to say he is top 5 in knowledge and savviness (if that is a word, lol) then I could probably buy off on that. But to make the conclusory allegation without really watching other tight ends and comparing them, I think you are off base.

 

[BigStar]

As for leadership, phfffft!
Anyone can wave a towel. Anyone, if he sticks around lonk enough, can be a leader. When I think of Witten (not the way Romo think of him but in football terms) I think of consistency and overall production. Leadership half never come into my small mind as one of his grate assets. No business pays more for "leadership." Part of being a leadership is not halfing to say you are a leader and, of course, never halfing to say you're sorry.

(damn I am good)https://encrypted-tbn1.***NOT-ALLOWED***/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTy7-lZ4KUyHYIC5AVJv3kgyBzUe4CT7snL6ai7UcSaTKHIyMVQtineX-8

Playing with that broken jaw showed leadership by example. Now, the continual false starts up to this season and being part of an average team (outside of 07/09) while giving complacent PC answers to his mistakes after the fact won't help his cause either, so you may have a point there. But Witten is a tough SOB who can only help by leading by example. Witten doesn't seem to have "that" kinda of charisma needed from a vocal leader. Tony on the other hand, is Tony, who lacks some of the coveted (straight edge) aspects to leadership some of us wish he possessed (staring at the monitor alone on the bench after a bad play for ex) but that shouldn't be exclusively on him either.

We still have a bunch of choir boys on the squad outside of Dez, Fred, Leary, Wilcox, McClain, Scandrick (by example), and Lawrence, along with a few others I'm sure I am missing. This group above will likely become our future leaders that bring some of that nasty edge (and vocal leadership) we covet. It's nice to know guys CARE, but is even more ensuring when you see teammates supporting players while trying to ensure accountability. Outside of Dez, no one really has the skins on the wall to carry much weight but I see that group becoming our new leadership in the next couple of seasons.

But the evidence prior to this season spoke for itself, leadership is still finding its way among this group of players with McClain showing a natural tendency, Church being the likely current leader (replacing Lee) though an avg player, with Dez/Fred as the more vocal/expressive leaders on O.

 

[casmith07]

9 pages on Mr. Cowboy.

This is one of the worst threads in the history of this site, lol. Jason Witten is an integral, INTEGRAL piece of the running game, the offense as a whole, the team, and the organization as a whole. This is absolute nonsense.

 

[Fla Cowpoke]

I think at one time you were right. I do think that he is "complete" in that he does everything pretty well, which is certainly not the case with many tight ends. Many can block, or catch but not both. But honestly, Witten doesn't do anything (physically) exceptionally well anymore. If you were to say he is top 5 in knowledge and savviness (if that is a word, lol) then I could probably buy off on that. But to make the conclusory allegation without really watching other tight ends and comparing them, I think you are off base.

Fine....but no one can cover him....he is always open. Tell me anyone that has consistently shut him down as a pass catcher. And if there is someone, that means they are placing one of their best cover guys on our TE instead of a WR. Win for the offense either way.

 

[conner01]

You don't pay players just because you like them or because they've been a big part of your team in the past. That is what gets you in trouble.

And NFL contracts aren't a promise, which is why they aren't guaranteed. He hasn't earned anything, nor has any other player.

His off the field presence and leadership isn't worth 8 million per year, if it was we wouldn't have gone 8-8 the last three years.

8 million a year can get you a great pass rushing defensive end. The opportunity cost of paying Jason Witten that money is way too high.

maybe so, but he is a big part of the team NOW and thats why you pay him and he does'nt make 8 mil next year anyways. his salary is 5 mil the rest he already has been paid. cutting witten is'nt gonna save you much money next year, maybe over the next few years but his contract is basically designed for 2 more years and then there is no bonus money left. then if he retires which may or may not happen, you clear a bunch of money

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Playing with that broken jaw showed leadership by example. Now, the continual false starts up to this season and being part of an average team (outside of 07/09) while giving complacent PC answers to his mistakes after the fact won't help his cause either, so you may have a point there. But Witten is a tough SOB who can only help by leading by example. Witten doesn't seem to have "that" kinda of charisma needed from a vocal leader. Tony on the other hand, is Tony, who lacks some of the coveted (straight edge) aspects to leadership some of us wish he possessed (staring at the monitor alone on the bench after a bad play for ex) but that shouldn't be exclusively on him either.

We still have a bunch of choir boys on the squad outside of Dez, Fred, Leary, Wilcox, McClain, Scandrick (by example), and Lawrence, along with a few others I'm sure I am missing. This group above will likely become our future leaders that bring some of that nasty edge (and vocal leadership) we covet. It's nice to know guys CARE, but is even more ensuring when you see teammates supporting players while trying to ensure accountability. Outside of Dez, no one really has the skins on the wall to carry much weight but I see that group becoming our new leadership in the next couple of seasons.

But the evidence prior to this season spoke for itself, leadership is still finding its way among this group of players with McClain showing a natural tendency, Church being the likely current leader (replacing Lee) though an avg player, with Dez/Fred as the more vocal/expressive leaders on O.

you spell good and write good. Are you like a teacher or something?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

http://cowboyszone.com/threads/the-cowboys-and-2015-cap-options.302200/

That is my thread refuting the garbage that is the OP. Not only is Witten not necessary to lose for getting a ton of cap room, he is only scheduled to make $5.1m this year.

 

[BigStar]

you spell good and write good. Are you like a teacher or something?

Ahhh Gimme, you're good

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Ahhh Gimme, you're good

You are welcomed. Keep up the good works.

 

[Nav22]

Witten's not going anywhere and that puts a huge smile on my face. He's retiring a Cowboy and Romo (or Parcells, or Jerry, or Garrett) will present him at the Hall Of Fame.

It'd be one thing if Escobar was playing like Young Witten, but he's not.

 

[Macnalty]

Witten's not going anywhere and that puts a huge smile on my face. He's retiring a Cowboy and Romo (or Parcells, or Jerry, or Garrett) will present him at the Hall Of Fame.

It'd be one thing if Escobar was playing like Young Witten, but he's not.

Escobar has both a shoulder AC injury and knee MCL sprain, he should get better I know the shoulder happened in the second preseason game, note he has not missed a game.

 

[landroverking]

9 pages on Mr. Cowboy.

This is one of the worst threads in the history of this site, lol. Jason Witten is an integral, INTEGRAL piece of the running game, the offense as a whole, the team, and the organization as a whole. This is absolute nonsense.

Mr Cowboy, I thought was about Witten, not Bob Lily.

 

[BigStar]

You are welcomed. Keep up the good works.

 

[BigStar]

Witten's not going anywhere and that puts a huge smile on my face. He's retiring a Cowboy and Romo (or Parcells, or Jerry, or Garrett) will present him at the Hall Of Fame.

It'd be one thing if Escobar was playing like Young Witten, but he's not.

I agree there is no need to rush him off the team and will be in the HOF, but do you think it would be insulting to request a pay cut to finish out? Honest q, not sure how he would take it tbh considering how much has contributed over time. But that space sure could help the team considerably with the Dez, McClain, Carter/Murray (possibly), and outside corner help if Carr is let go in off season. His new his likely new role (though still imp) would seem ideal in the 3-4 range.

 

[Galian Beast]

The same people said Ware would never be cut.

I'll reiterate, there is no way Witten is worth 8 million per year. And yes it is 8 million per year, it isn't just about his 2015 base salary, because it isn't just about 2015. It's about 2015-2017 and it's about having invested resources behind him to help make up the difference. It's about needing that money to go towards the defense.

As for Witten making the hall of fame, I think you overestimate how many Tight Ends make it into the NFL and you overlook the fact that Witten's touchdown numbers are anemic compared to other tight ends of this era.

 

[Nav22]

I agree there is no need to rush him off the team and will be in the HOF, but do you think it would be insulting to request pay cut to finish out? Honest q, not sure how he would take it but would help the team considering his likely new role (though still imp).

His role hasn't been diminished in the least, so I don't expect a pay cut to be offered or accepted. He's still playing literally every snap and he's an important player for us whether he's catching passes or blocking.

If that ever changes, he might be open to a reduction... but as long as he's as complete a tight end as there is in the game while being as great a leader as there is in the league, we'll happily pay him what he's worth.

 

[BigStar]

His role hasn't been diminished in the least, so I don't expect a pay cut to be offered or accepted. He's still playing literally every snap and he's an important player for us whether he's catching passes or blocking.

If that ever changes, he might be open to a reduction... but as long as he's as complete a tight end as there is in the game while being as great a leader as there is in the league, we'll happily pay him what he's worth.

I hear that but also don't want to simply pay for past production. Love Emmitt but he came to mind as the aging vet following the all time rushing title where he contributed to the cap constraints but wasn't producing at those levels for the last couple of seasons. I know Emmitt is royalty, but was thinking more season likely FA concerns regarding the DL/RT/S if need be. It would be touchy, so was just thinking that avenue more so than having to cut him bc of a big cap number and make the potential restructure smaller in value as a result. By modifying it in the off season to a friendly deal that would almost guarantee that he will retire in Dallas with no sour grapes. Who knows maybe he will surprise us and be done by that point and choose to retire.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The same people said Ware would never be cut.

I'll reiterate, there is no way Witten is worth 8 million per year. And yes it is 8 million per year, it isn't just about his 2015 base salary, because it isn't just about 2015. It's about 2015-2017 and it's about having invested resources behind him to help make up the difference. It's about needing that money to go towards the defense.

As for Witten making the hall of fame, I think you overestimate how many Tight Ends make it into the NFL and you overlook the fact that Witten's touchdown numbers are anemic compared to other tight ends of this era.

http://cowboyszone.com/threads/its-time-to-cut-demarcus-ware.276978/

that is me last December saying it was time to cut Ware.

Ware was scheduled to make $13m in salary and had a cap hit of ~$20m. Witten is scheduled to make $5.1m ins salary for all your handwaving at sunk costs.